234 réponses à ce sujet

[Felps Cross]

Its a must preorder buy for me. Mass Effect is our home, we must play it. Otherwise, we wont be able to tell if the game sucks or if it rocks.

 

Lets not distrust ME. It has only betrayed us once. Give Andromeda a go.

[Kalas Magnus]

ill pre-order the multiplayer only version of the game. if it becomes available.

 

no lets play will make me want to play sp.

[Amirit]

Your example for interdependability is flawed. Shared ressources don't add to the relative expenses, they decrease them. Even if it is a one-way transfer, say a weapon design wholly conceptionalized and modelled by the SP team to be used by the MP, it is an asset that was created for SP in the first place to be used in SP, the same goes the other way around. There is no surplus cost involved in such an exchange of assets.

 

Only in one case - if they were planned separately and both teams got money like for the full project yet used only half because of sharing. Or, if one part (MP) is made only out of resources from another (SP in our case) and completely secondary in terms of development. Is this the case? Otherwise some extra budget can be simply not enough for both games and either both parts will get less or one gets everything and the other - nothing. Not to mention, "completely separate team" - at best team of programmers, because from DAI we know teams shared writers and level designers. 

 

You are right at one thing - I have now clue how exactly MP and SP are developed. My experience came from PvP vs PvE. There is no one single MMO where developers would not swear that one will never take any resources from another and influence in any way yet in every single MMO PvP highly affect PvE and take a lot of resources from it.

[Navasha]

Have never watched a Let's Play ever.   Certainly won't start now.   I don't need other people's opinions to substitute for my own.    I will continue to buy games that look appealing from developers that have a good reputation.   Mass Effect is one of those series so far that is an easy first day buy.    Once a developer releases a product that I truly feel burned in buying it, then I stop buying their products and never look back.  

 

I loved Assassin's Creed until Unity, haven't bought anything since and don't know if they could ever win me back now.   Same goes for the X series after Rebirth.  

 

Bioware and Mass Effect so far are still good buys to me.   They have issues sure, but few games are ever going to cater 100% to my personal tastes. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

*sigh*

Here we go again ...

SP and MP production isn't a zero-sum balance. There are two different teams working on one component respectively and funding is increased to supplement that. In addition, many ingame assets like character models, powers, weapons, enemies, the balancing of the aforementioned three, level design aswell as visual and sound design are shared between SP an MP teams as they need it, so financially spoken, as long as even just a single asset developed from the MP team is shared with the SP team, the relative financial value for just the SP component increases, meaning that a substantially integrated MP is only increasing the overall value of the game, even if you never play the MP.

Not quite. This benefit you describe creates an incentive to share assets, which then creates an incentive to design shareable assets.

From the SP point of view, this is a good thing when the MP team does it, but not so good when the SP team does it. Look how actiony the combat in DAI got. As a result, MP combat and SP combat are very similar, which is a terrific sharing of assets, but it arguably moved SP's content away from the more tactical approach of DAO.

I love the core mechanics of ME's combat, and by that I mean I love the pause-to-aim mechanic. That was developed, though, for a SP game. It appears in ME3, I would argue, because that was the third game of the trilogy, and because the reuse of the same engine allowed them to reuse assets from ME2 in ME3's development.

MEA they're designing from the ground up in a new engine. Will it have pause-to-aim? That's not a shareable asset. Shareable assets would provide access to the functions of ME3's pause without actually pausing the game. Pause-to-aim probably wasn't an intended feature in the first place. Are they going to make a point to reinvent it for the new engine?

There would be a greater chance of that without the incentive to share assets with MP.

You're right that asset sharing creates more available assets for each team. If we assume that all assets are of equal value, that's a good thing.

Are all assets of equal value? I say no.

[Heimaxx]

Watched playthroughs of the ME trilogy because I was late to the party but I'm planning to buy and play Andromeda before watching any let's play this time around because I want to experience it first

[Fredward]

Nope.

[in it for the lolz]

 

 

 

 

 

I also wouldn't put too much faith in the idea that BioWare will listen to every little thread that pops up on the insane asylum that we call BSN.

This reminds me of a song:

[Iakus]

I wouldn't need to see a gameplay video.  but I will be heavily spoiling myself with the storyline, endings, any references to past games, etc.

[Fidite Nemini]

Not quite. This benefit you describe creates an incentive to share assets, which then creates an incentive to design shareable assets.

From the SP point of view, this is a good thing when the MP team does it, but not so good when the SP team does it. Look how actiony the combat in DAI got. As a result, MP combat and SP combat are very similar, which is a terrific sharing of assets, but it arguably moved SP's content away from the more tactical approach of DAO.

I love the core mechanics of ME's combat, and by that I mean I love the pause-to-aim mechanic. That was developed, though, for a SP game. It appears in ME3, I would argue, because that was the third game of the trilogy, and because the reuse of the same engine allowed them to reuse assets from ME2 in ME3's development.

MEA they're designing from the ground up in a new engine. Will it have pause-to-aim? That's not a shareable asset. Shareable assets would provide access to the functions of ME3's pause without actually pausing the game. Pause-to-aim probably wasn't an intended feature in the first place. Are they going to make a point to reinvent it for the new engine?

There would be a greater chance of that without the incentive to share assets with MP.

You're right that asset sharing creates more available assets for each team. If we assume that all assets are of equal value, that's a good thing.

Are all assets of equal value? I say no.

 

DAI and its MP is not a good example. For one, because it was/is a bad MP. Nice attempt mind you, but didn't work out. And that is because secondly, the gameplay we have in the DA series does not lend itself naturally to MP with its focus on background number rolls that dictate more or less everything. A DAI player isn't aiming his weapons directly, the chance to hit, how much damage it does, etc. is up to how the dice rolls. That is of no problem in a slower paced, more tactical gameplay, but not for a faster paced environment like the MP.

 

And it's not the MP's fault that the gameplay pace has become faster. That is a design choice that already dates back to DAII, where there's no MP to lay the blame on.

 

And in the end this isn't about the DA series at all so comparing that with ME:A on a gameplay basis is haphazard at best, for what should be obvious reasons. Since the basic gameplay on both SP and MP is virtually the same, the potential conflicts are minimal.

 

The example of the pause mechanic only applies superficially too, because at its core, it's not pause-to-aim. It's pause-to-give-orders, a tool to control your squadmates, not make it easy to aim which as you noted, is more likely to be an incidential benefit for SP players. But for the MP, there are no squadmates to order around, hence no need for the pause mechanic. It was a asset that didn't need sharing.

 

And as such, as long as ME:A comes with squadmates that you can order around, the pause mechanic or something like it will return, MP yes or no. Will it be the same and/or allow to use it as a cheap man's adrenaline rush to assist aiming? We don't know, that's up to the devs to decide and maybe they will go for something whose lack of presence in the MP won't appear as jarring as plain missing a mechanic, which is about as influential as the MP would get in that particular example.

 

And to keep that thought about the pause mechanic for a bit, is pausing the game even necessary? Freezing the game totally to issue orders is a crude design that breaks the flow of gameplay and immersion. An intuitive, context based order mechanic that doesn't require pausing the game for example isn't outlandish. ME2 already made the first steps into that direction and ME3 continued to finetune that element, so the line of thought is clearly present. And again, a developement predating the MP.

 

I would argue that in both series the MP is not cause to the various percieved changes, a catalyst at best that accelerated the inclusion of design changes.

[Sylvius the Mad]

An intuitive, context based order mechanic that doesn't require pausing the game for example isn't outlandish.

It isn't, but it would ruin the game for me.

1. There's no such thing as an intuitive control.

2. Context-sensitive controls are evil.

3. I don't want to make decisions or manage the UI in real-time. Real-time, for me, is there so I can watch the results of my choices. I don't want to be be doing anything when the clock is running.

[Fidite Nemini]

And we arrived at arguing preferences.

 

Nope.gif

[Ahglock]

There is no arguing about context sensitive controls being evil. That is a fundamental law of the multiverse.

[Fidite Nemini]

There is no arguing about context sensitive controls being evil. That is a fundamental law of the multiverse.

 

Only when they conflict with controls that shouldn't be context sensitive.

[Gothfather]

i don't. I just need to see a few reviews from reviewers that I follow who have similar tastes to me. how do I determine this? I find a youtube reviewer and watch their reviews on 2 games i like and two games I don't like and see the commonality of their opinion and mine.

 

I have three reviewers that I follow whom I don't always agree with but as a whole these three reviewers give me a decent foundation to make an informed choice. They give opinions and provide game play footage without spoiling anything for me. Is it 100%? No but I don't expect it to be, i expect it to limit my feeling of getting burned not remove it entirely.

 

I don't require a "lets play or a walkthrough" to have enough information to make an informed decision. In other words I don't need the game spoiled for me to determine if I will like the game. A few reviews is all i need. But again I don't just read any review off the net because I have zero idea if they share my same tastes. it is important to know which reviewers share your own views on what makes a game good or bad, in a given genre. once you find a few see what they say and based on their opinions judge if the game is worth your investment. Don't let your desire for the game to be good, be the arbiter. Aka don't let your hype rule you.

 

I am hyped for FO4 but I haven't pre-ordered because I have no information to make an informed decision. So while hyped i don't let it rule my actions but then again I am an adult.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Only when they conflict with controls that shouldn't be context sensitive.

Making none of them context-sensitive solves this problem quite neatly.

The context-sensitive controls I found most frustrating in ME3 were that sprint and take cover were the same button, so I couldn't sprint past cover, and that a specific camera direction was necessary to enable most of the take or leave cover commands. What to roll out of cover while looking where you're headed? Nope, can't do that.

[Fidite Nemini]

Making none of them context-sensitive solves this problem quite neatly.

The context-sensitive controls I found most frustrating in ME3 were that sprint and take cover were the same button, so I couldn't sprint past cover, and that a specific camera direction was necessary to enable most of the take or leave cover commands. What to roll out of cover while looking where you're headed? Nope, can't do that.

 

Urgh, Spacebar-Do-It-All, I know your plight ... I know it intimately. Though I would argue that's less at fault for the context-sensitive controls as much as it's the fault of trying to control too much with the same keybind.

 

The again, if the developes felt like actually making a controlling scheme that properly exploits the abundance of keys on a keyboard and mouse (my mouse alone has ten buttons - PC gamer bias apply) and need not make controls context-sensitive to cover necessary inputs, then I'd be happy too.

[Eelectrica]

No. Wouldn't watch a lets play because spoilers. Probably check a few reviews etc

Doubt I'd pre-order because I'm pretty sure the Digital store won't run out of copies and need to be re-stocked...

[Vespervin]

Anyone else need to see a let's play or a walkthourgh before buying?

Nope.

Edit: I'm going to pre-order the highest edition ASAP. I love ME too much not to.

[JamesFaith]

Never did this and don't plan to do it.

[Hexoduen]

As much as I loved ME1-3    I'd want to see the new Mass Effect before buying, read reviews, talk with friends.

 

Wish to avoid spoilers, so no walkthrough or lenghty let's play, just enough to see the state of the PC version at launch.

[LightningSamus]

Prefer to play for myself than to watch someone else play and spoil things for myself.

[Natureguy85]

No. It's only $60ish I'd rather have it day one and find out it sucks-is awesome on my own without reading seeing that many spoilers.

I'm loving fallout 4s style. Tell us about it a few months out from launch. Release very little info. Saves me from failing my will save and seeing more than in retrospect I'd want.

 

Since $60 is nothing, will you buy it for me too?

[Morty Smith]

I don´t even know what this game is about besides Johnny Cash and space. Maybe?

[Ahglock]

Since $60 is nothing, will you buy it for me too?

 

My job is giving free crap too people, now you want me to do it on my own time..  Yeesh, sounds way too much like work.