27 réponses à ce sujet

[Deadly dwarf]

I was introduced to the world of Dragon Age via Inquisition, which I received as a gift last Christmas.  Though the producers tried to give DA newbies like myself as much information as possible on the world of Thedas via a million codex entries, there were many things that didn't make sense to me as I played Inquisition.  First and foremost, the line that "only the Grey Wardens can kill the Archdemon."   I'm currently playing DAO for the first time and have just arrived at the point where Riordan tells my PC that if a non-Warden kills an archdemon, its sole simply relocates to another suitable Darkspawn host.  If a Warden strikes the killing blow, however, the soul of the monster transfers to the Gray Warden because of the taint and here it finally dies, taking the Warden down with it.

 

So, this leads to the questions:

1) Was Cory's dragon an Archdemon?

2)  If it was, then why was the Inquisitor able to kill it despite not being a Warden?

[Ashaantha]

I believe Cory's pet is simply a red lyrium corrupted high dragon. From memory it is called Red Lyrium Dragon in that final Cory fight. So Inquisitor is fine killing it like the many high dragons he/she has likely already killed. I'm not entirely positive if they confirmed this in the game somewhere but it makes more sense to me.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Red Lyrium Dragon was a High Dragon that was corrupted by the Blight. 

The Archdemons are Old Gods which took the form of High Dragons that were corrupted by the Blight. 

 

So the difference is that Corypheus' dragon while appearing to be an Archdemon actually isn't one since it is merely a corrupted High Dragon rather than a corrupted Old God. 

[Shaftell]

Corypheus was so deluded and a fraud to the point where he raised a Dragon with Lyrium and put some of his essence in it so he could parade around his "archdemon". He most definitely did not control an archdemon. It's also brought up in Inquisition.

[Deadly dwarf]

Many thanks for the replies!  That does make sense.  If anything, Cory could be considered the archdemon himself since he was able to transfer his spirit, when necessary, to the dragon or even to Grey Wardens (without dying).  As stated in my original post, a lot of these discussions in Inquisition wouldn't make sense to gamers who hadn't gone through the previous games. 

[Indigenous]

They avoided the plot hole of killing Corypheus by banishing him to the fade instead.

[DanAxe]

I don't think Cory was banished. In fact, i'm 99% sure he was destroyed. The Inquisitor opened a fade breach inside Corypheus, that doesn't mean Cory was sent to the fade, it means Corypheus was obliterated, you can clearly see his skeleton as his body desintegrates. Furthermore, after beating Cory in DA2 and having him coming back in Inquisition, I don't think Bioware would do it all over again. I mean, does anyone really want to see Corypheus again in future games?? Please no, let him stay dead forever....

[Apollexander]

No. In Inquisition it is mentioned that the dragon is not an archdemon.

[ElementalFury106]

It wasn't an Archdemon. It was a dragon infused and corrupted with the power of Red Lyrium, which we know is unfathomably powerful.

 

Red Lyrium contains the blight.

 

Therefore, Corypheus' Dragon appears to be a blighted dragon aka Archdemon, when it really isn't.

 

It's certainly as powerful and devastating as an Archdemon, but it doesn't command a legion of Darkspawn and it can be slain by a non-Warden.

[Shaftell]

Many thanks for the replies! That does make sense. If anything, Cory could be considered the archdemon himself since he was able to transfer his spirit, when necessary, to the dragon or even to Grey Wardens (without dying). As stated in my original post, a lot of these discussions in Inquisition wouldn't make sense to gamers who hadn't gone through the previous games.

No, Cory is definitely not an archdemon. He idolizes the old gods ( dumat in particular). Corypheus is in fact one of the first magisters that breached the fade to enter the golden city to dethrone the maker from his throne. They were eventually cast down and corrupted by the blight and that's how the darkspawn came to be. Each archdemon has the soul of an old god. Also, this is just one side of the story according to chantry belief.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Just out of curioisty since you played Inquistion before you played Origins -- which game did you like better?

[Kadust]

It was made clear near the end of DA:I that Cory's dragon wasn't an archdemon, even though they believed it to be at first. It's simply a high dragon corrupted by the red lyrium.

[Mikka-chan]

Cory himself has more powers similar to the archdemon then anything, as has been pointed: he managed to switch bodies once before the game (trying to avoid too much spoily) and definitely does it when going to the temple.  I believe it only seems to work with Grey Wardens/blighted things, though.  And that does leave the question about killing him: was opening a fade rift in him enough to bypass the usual restrictions on killing, was he simply banished to the fade in some form (that would come back to haunt us too much, so probably not- I don't think they want another Hawke), or was there simply no creatures around with the qualifications neccessary to jump to (rare, but possible- or maybe it has a distance...)?  That's never quite answered, but I suppose 'opening a fade rift in something kills creatures that can switch bodies' is a good enough answer as that's certainly not a power that many people are going to be pulling out, unless Solas has a few other orbs up his sleeves.

 

The dragon is just corrupted: it's said so in Inquisition.  The archdemons are dragons that have been corrupted, too, but in a different way, as they're actually Old Gods (whatever they actually were).

 

 

Having said that, I've often rolled with the idea of a horrible fanfiction in which it actually is an Archdemon and the decision to send the Wardens away backfires horribly and Everything Goes Wrong, but I think it would just lead to Darkness Apathy Woe (not the actual trope name).  Also, it would be a horrible fanfiction.

[Yaroub]

The archdemons are the old gods of the Tevinter Imperium, they were tainted when the whole trying to enter the golden city mess and the creation of darkspawns.

Dumat: the god of silence and the first archdemon...dead

Zazikel: the god of chaos, second blight...dead

Toth: the god of fire, third blight...dead

Andoral: the god of slaves, fourth blight...dead

Urthemiel: the god of beauty, fifth blight...dead

Razikale: the god of mystery... alive 

Lusacan: the god of night...alive

 

 

Cory's dragon was infused with red lyrium, and Cory himself was the high priest of the god Dumat, in the end of DA:I Cory prays for Dumat right before you kill him.

[Melbella]

Cory himself was the high priest of the god Dumat, in the end of DA:I Cory prays for Dumat right before you kill him.

Which I find extremely hilarious. If he really considered himself a god, why would he pray to another one for help?

[Yaroub]

Which I find extremely hilarious. If he really considered himself a god, why would he pray to another one for help?

Well, as we have seen in legacy Cory has no idea what happened since the wardens imprisoned him thousands of years ago, as the Conductor of silence he led the other six magisters at the behest of the old gods throw a ritual obtained by Dumat probably to the golden city, but all he found was a corruption a blackened city and the blight as he says "the light, we sought the golden light, you offered the power of the gods themselves, but it was black corrupt..darkness ever since, how long?".

He awakens pray for Dumat and no one answers probably because the wardens killed him, he then decides that the old gods and the new deity "the maker" are long dead,lies,have left and so on, he wanted to achieve godhood himself as the only living man who entered the black city, he says "beg that i succeed, for i have seen the throne of the gods, and it was empty"

In the final battle with the inquisitor he saw himself weak, defeated, he feared death and prayed for Dumat and the old gods of the imperium "Dumat,ancient ones, i beseech you, if you existed, if you truly ever existed, aid me now!".

Now what i find dazzling is that we know that they existed, they called for him to enter the black city, they were corrupted by the taint and became of a dragon form, they lead the darkspawns, wardens kill them and so on, for me Cory is confused as hell almost as confused as Solas.

[caradoc2000]

Which I find extremely hilarious. If he really considered himself a god, why would he pray to another one for help?

"A god is just a dog spelled backwards."

[Deadly dwarf]

Which is better?  DAO or DAI?  Tough question!

 

I did multiple playthroughs of DAI before I finally purchased DAO, I liked it that much.  The little one paragraph blurbs on the PC's origins were pretty lame.  On my first playthrough as the "deadly dwarf," I basically played the character as if he had complete amnesia (not just for what happened at the conclave.  I had no idea whether he should be Andrastian or what.  That said, the beginning of DAI does effectively create an ominous "end of the world" atmosphere even as you're doing the tutorial.  Much of what occurs in the first part of DAI up to and including the siege of Haven is really pretty good.  Things begin to drag in the second part, though.  Having the "big open world" makes things drift a bit too much.

 

I really liked the Origin stories in DAO by contrast.  It's a great way to be introduced to the world of Thedas.  After Ostagar and Lothering, you have the freedom to do things in whatever sequence you prefer, so things aren't too linear but at the same time, the story is tight enough so you don't "drift" as in DAI.  As to villains, facing a Blight is a hard act to follow.  Cory and his corrupted followers are okay, but the "drift" in the second half of the game detracts from things.  Also, what few darkspawn appear in DAI are rather lame.  (Whose idea was it to give hurlocks hats?)  And I definitely preferred the "desire demons" of DAO!

 

As to game mechanics, the Frostbite engine makes things pretty to the point of being sterile.  The look of DAO -- especially on a good desktop -- is grittier.  The tactical mode in DAI (I had PS4 version) is definitely better than in DAO.  Also the fighting is much smoother.  OTOH, the skill/talent/spell trees of DAO -- though a bit convoluted -- are more fun than the overly streamlined ones in DAI.  As to difficulty, I find playing "Normal" on DAO more challenging than Nightmare (with friendly fire on) in DAI.

 

Bottom line, I disagree with people who totally dismiss DAI, but I can see why some believe DAO was better.  So far, I myself would rate DAO 9.5 to 9.0 for DAI.  (Note:  I'm not done with my first playthrough of DAO yet.  I've just begun the final onslaught.)

[Deadly dwarf]

The archdemons are the old gods of the Tevinter Imperium, they were tainted when the whole trying to enter the golden city mess and the creation of darkspawns.

Dumat: the god of silence and the first archdemon...dead

Zazikel: the god of chaos, second blight...dead

Toth: the god of fire, third blight...dead

Andoral: the god of slaves, fourth blight...dead

Urthemiel: the god of beauty, fifth blight...dead

Razikale: the god of mystery... alive 

Lusacan: the god of night...alive

 

This may be a dumb question, but are the dormant Elven gods also possible archdemons?  I ask because of Solas' angry response to the Wardens' misguided (by Cory) efforts to bind demons to kill the old gods before they could become archdemons.  Here's a guy who was cool as a cucumber 95% of the game and who refused to denounce blood magic on principle ("Magic is magic" he said).  Yet he seems to take Grey Wardens' plan rather personally.  Thoughts?

[PsychoBlonde]

 

I really liked the Origin stories in DAO by contrast.  It's a great way to be introduced to the world of Thedas.  After Ostagar and Lothering, you have the freedom to do things in whatever sequence you prefer, so things aren't too linear but at the same time, the story is tight enough so you don't "drift" as in DAI. 

 

I have been yelling about their refusal to do a proper "game opener" sequence since the DAII tutorial was pushed out.  They really need to stop with this in medias res crapola.  An RPG is a lengthy time investment and needs an equally in depth introduction.  It is not an action movie.

Yeah, okay, you might lose some action junkies who might return the game because it doesn't reach out and yank their scrotum the second it starts.  But are you going to KEEP them interested once you get past ZOMG ACTION INTRO and onto the more talky bits?  Doubtful.

[Yaroub]

This may be a dumb question, but are the dormant Elven gods also possible archdemons?  I ask because of Solas' angry response to the Wardens' misguided (by Cory) efforts to bind demons to kill the old gods before they could become archdemons.  Here's a guy who was cool as a cucumber 95% of the game and who refused to denounce blood magic on principle ("Magic is magic" he said).  Yet he seems to take Grey Wardens' plan rather personally.  Thoughts?

There is thread somewhere here about Solas thoughts about the wardens, as for your question, no the Elven gods cannot be archdemons, you are playing origins the archdemons are explained as you begin a new game they are the imperium old gods, we encountered two of their high priests, Cory servant of Dumat and the architect servant of urthemiel. For all i know the elven gods may not be real.

[TheBlackAdder13]

For all i know the elven gods may not be real.

 

o_0

 

Well we've already met two of them...

[Yaroub]

 

 

 

 

o_0

 

Well we've already met two of them...

 

Still not convinced.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Still not convinced.

 

So Solas and Flemeth/Mythal are what exactly....