20 réponses à ce sujet

[pwnjabber]

Normally I play with a private party of battle-hardened friends to attempt these runs, but today I tried pugging one. One guy I knew well and the others had low level banners and portraits. We got to FC 3/4, but my reaver and my friend's avaar couldn't carry us through that wave. It's what I expect to happen, but it made me think....

What if there was a minimum number of games you needed to complete before unlocking nightmare + heartbreaker, say 100 perilous matches. It would give newbies something to look forward to, and also keep highly level pugging from becoming a joke, as one or two inexperienced players can pretty easily wipe a nightmare run. Otherwise, persistant newbies who can't do much more than leech will dominate upper level pugging, forcing most serious NM/HB runs to stay in the private party realm. Thoughts?

[Shadohz]

No. That would make too much sense. Therefore I disagree with it on the grounds of it being too logical. I would disagree with any assertions that this would positively impact the existing pool of players to create a more competent PUG base. Noob-gates and visibly displaying critical player stats goes against the family-friendly, egalitarian motto of the BW's MP enterprise.

I would also disagree with the fact they should add NPCs as drone players to combat the dwindling population. Querying the host's profile, using their stats and creating random mage/fighter/rogue NPCS based one the host's current configuration would a demonstrative waste of time.

Why do you people insist on writing anti-MEFIRST threads knowing that you'll be accused of elitism? You're supposed generate ideas that appeal to instant-gratification personality types.

Forever yours,
Mr. Sarcasm Undetected
xoxoxo

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

No, and why do you want to segregate the already smaller player base of damp already with proposals like these?

[pwnjabber]

@ shadohz Lol you're right I don't know what I was thinking.

@ drake my first thought posting this was man drake is going to rage.

[Shadohz]

No, and why do you want to segregate the already smaller player base of damp already with proposals like these?

They're already segregated. Are you overlooking the fact that most of the good players remained walled off in private matches because they don't want to deal with noob puggers? I've spent hundreds of hours helping noobies through Routine and Threatening matches so they were able to progress but avoided Perilous because often times the people there completely under par. It's not fun having to play harder difficulties when two or three other players have either bleed out, have attack/TTK ratings so low they drag out a match 10-30 extra minutes, or committing noobish antics. These factors themselves discourage good players from wanting to help or outright avoid higher difficulties. I only ever played Perilous with other LBer's or if I happen to be in a random Threatening match with some good players. I play the game even less now because even after waiting a while for players to set up a match often times they are not that good or difficulty-compatible. What's the fun in playing if people can't get through Zone 1 without a clutch. It was frustrating even before the population dwindled down.

Requiring players to player 50-100 Perilous/Nightmare matches to move up to the next difficulty isn't asking for much to ensure they have decent enough stats to play that difficulty. Also noobs won't be completely walled off as long as the host player has access to change the difficulty setting of the matches or the noobie is sent an invite from a friend who's already completed the requirement.

[Thadrial]

I've had pugs join in empty spots on nightmare dragon runs at zone 4 and 5 to leech kills while dying incessantly and while it bothers me it's not entirely their fault most of the time. Sure there are ignorant nubs that drag everyone down but as long as someone is willing to listen or has a mic they are always welcome in any of my lobbies. Unless I am past my 10th dragon run of the day with no good drops. Then my humor is severely limited and my goodwill shunted.

[Zantazar]

Must say that I agree with the OP and Shadohz's views. I will attempt to play NM with a few friends (good players) in a private match, but I really regard myself as a "perilous competent" player and I would not hinder any teams by joining a NM pug match. I am not sure how many perilous games I have completed so far, I think it is around 35'ish. I would go along with this idea.

 

Zan the Man has a Plan

[Yallegro]

It is called a private match OP

 

Besides, there's no way to know if a player is competent based on the number of matches he has completed

[Zantazar]

.... there's no way to know if a player is competent based on the number of matches he has completed

 

True, but it is an indication. Another idea I came across in a post a while back was an entry level qualifier. Solo routine with a character to play threatening, solo threatening to play perilous etc.. Just an interesting concept I think (flame on).

 

Zan the Man has a Plan

[Dekibra]

Must say that I agree with the OP and Shadohz's views. I will attempt to play NM with a few friends (good players) in a private match, but I really regard myself as a "perilous competent" player and I would not hinder any teams by joining a NM pug match. I am not sure how many perilous games I have completed so far, I think it is around 35'ish. I would go along with this idea.

 

Zan the Man has a Plan

 

if you'll give it a try and have a free spot - I'm game 

[Zantazar]

if you'll give it a try and have a free spot - I'm game 

 

Maybe over this weekend, not been too well recently but will chat with messiasorigin and we could have a go, will send you a message in game.

 

Zan the Man has a Plan

[Silversmurf]

I solo'd Nightmare FC (Frost / Demons) in 1:31

 

Does that mean I can play Heartbreaker now?

[mfr001]

It is called a private match OP

 

Besides, there's no way to know if a player is competent based on the number of matches he has completed

If you join or create a public game you are effectively stating that you will accept whoever turns up (or try the kicking mechanism). Also, there are so many other issues which can contribute to failure. Also, the number of successes at any level may well be a reflection of the standard of people you play with, it certainly is in my case (most are A LOT stronger than I am).

 

As Yallegro pointed out, if you want to control the composition of your team, Private games allow you to do this.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

I solo'd Nightmare FC (Frost / Demons) in 1:31
 
Does that mean I can play Heartbreaker now?

No, it just means you need to repeat it 99 times successfully in order to play with the big boys of heartbreaker.

[Spin-Orbit]

Normally I play with a private party of battle-hardened friends to attempt these runs, but today I tried pugging one. One guy I knew well and the others had low level banners and portraits. We got to FC 3/4, but my reaver and my friend's avaar couldn't carry us through that wave. It's what I expect to happen, but it made me think....

What if there was a minimum number of games you needed to complete before unlocking nightmare + heartbreaker, say 100 perilous matches. It would give newbies something to look forward to, and also keep highly level pugging from becoming a joke, as one or two inexperienced players can pretty easily wipe a nightmare run. Otherwise, persistant newbies who can't do much more than leech will dominate upper level pugging, forcing most serious NM/HB runs to stay in the private party realm. Thoughts?

Seems to me typical over reaction from BSNers. IMO OP is just asking for some mechanisms to allow progression to play in the location choices. Even in SP you can not simply go to certain high level areas early on the game. You can get there also at lower levels or higher levels depending on the challenge desired (in SP game) in the MP since your working with other players there are both sides to consider, right of everyone to join a game and the right of more experienced players. The game match and PUG mechanism is on or off public or private, if it had some additional mechanisms it would be up to the host to decide. If the player base is so small and the host sets the requirement high, well it is his/her choice. Result would be empty lobby but no one will get kicked and no one will feel they are carrying others.
There were many good suggestions on this and perhaps it is time for Luke and the devs to reconsider this...

[Texasmotiv]

In other games its called 'attunement'. It's a good idea really. adds more progression and it prevents people from jumping strait into NM, lucking into a party that carries and doesn't kick then just riding the train to some undeserved shinies.

[Aggrojagg]

I solo'd Nightmare FC (Frost / Demons) in 1:31

 

Does that mean I can play Heartbreaker now?

 

Was....was it easier than with friends? 

[JiaJM98]

To be fair, perilous is now okay for pug.

After the patch, even a bunch of noobs and under promoted scrubs like me can complete perilous FC quite easily, provided lots noobs love to fight dragons.

[pwnjabber]

Like Spin-Orbit said, there's no incentive in the SP to go into zones over your level and die. In MP however, there is a big incentive to get the best xp/equips in the game right away by tagging along in nightmare matches. I enjoyed my newbie experienced rising through ranks of playing with the same level threatening players or better, then more perilous ready types, and so forth. An unlock requirement would help that healthy progression continue to exist. If I were a newbie again, I know I would be tempted to jump on nightmare pugs for the xp and chance of end game weapons.

[Spectr61]

Normally I play with a private party of battle-hardened friends to attempt these runs, but today I tried pugging one. One guy I knew well and the others had low level banners and portraits. We got to FC 3/4, but my reaver and my friend's avaar couldn't carry us through that wave. It's what I expect to happen, but it made me think....
What if there was a minimum number of games you needed to complete before unlocking nightmare + heartbreaker, say 100 perilous matches. It would give newbies something to look forward to, and also keep highly level pugging from becoming a joke, as one or two inexperienced players can pretty easily wipe a nightmare run. Otherwise, persistant newbies who can't do much more than leech will dominate upper level pugging, forcing most serious NM/HB runs to stay in the private party realm. Thoughts?

This.

Alternatively, put in a ME3MP-like system to see a players prestige, load out, and equipment/accessories in the pre-game lobby.

[Shadohz]

To be fair, perilous is now okay for pug.

After the patch, even a bunch of noobs and under promoted scrubs like me can complete perilous FC quite easily, provided lots noobs love to fight dragons.

I had to carry 20 Perilous games this morning using Arcane Warrior because the other 3 bannered and bannerless players could barely cut it. We failed about 60% of the game events over all the games. One guy got kicked after his first game because he was ITF by Zone 2 (the same zone he dropped in on). I had one LB'er show up for maybe 5 of those games, but the rest were clutched or carried. All 20 of the games were FC speedruns. One game I ended up with a 58-kill streak in zone 4. As SOON as I switched characters and put the match to Random/Perilous they all bleed out the next game in zone 5 and only took a quarter health off the boss.

Post patch 1.09 Perilous is not noob-friendly so let's not overexaggerate.