19 réponses à ce sujet

[AlmightyCarrot]

Hi there, can someone tell me what is the base guard for legionnarie? I'm trying to decide which is better, 50% more guard or 20% more armor

[Luke Barrett]

Base guard is 25% of your max health

[Cirvante]

Base guard is 25% of your max health

So do the passives now add 50% of your base guard (12.5%), or 50% of your max health? I'd assume it's the former which would bring guard up to 50% of max health with both passives. Otherwise guard would be 125% of max health.

[Wavebend]

So do the passives now add 50% of your base guard (12.5%), or 50% of your max health? I'd assume it's the former which would bring guard up to 50% of max health with both passives. Otherwise guard would be 125% of max health.

 

125% of max health, pretty damn sure about that

[Cirvante]

125% of max health, pretty damn sure about that

 

Well, that is quite a huge increase. I couldn't really tell because NM enemies still take down my Lego's guard pretty quickly.

[HeroicMass]

I will see if I can run some tests tomorrow if no one beats me to it.  My previous understanding of this was that it wasn't additive, but was a percentage based gain from base guard.  i.e. additional 12.5% instead of a total 50% gain.

[Wavebend]

I will see if I can run some tests tomorrow if no one beats me to it.  My previous understanding of this was that it wasn't additive, but was a percentage based gain from base guard.  i.e. additional 12.5% instead of a total 50% gain.

 

I'm 99.9% sure it's a 50% gain based on max hp. i.e 125% of max health with both passives. This has been discussed to death in the beta forums, with Luke saying it was 125% of max hp as well. I just can't quote it.

[HeroicMass]

I'm 99.9% sure it's a 50% gain based on max hp. i.e 125% of max health with both passives. This has been discussed to death in the beta forums, with Luke saying it was 125% of max hp as well. I just can't quote it.

 

That would be fantastic if it is.  

[Thadrial]

To the Death doesn't give 25% guard on hit anymore. More like 5% it feels like. Is that because of the increased total guard? I want TTD back to its' old self because I really need that skill. Also the warrior skill cooldown fix would be nice. Anytime is good 

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

To the Death doesn't give 25% guard on hit anymore. More like 5% it feels like. Is that because of the increased total guard?

 

Yes. The catch is that I believe that TtD generates Guard at 25% of the base Guard value for your health.

 

For example: If I have 1,000 health, my base Guard is 250. 25% of that per swing is about 62.

 

If I now boost my Guard with both passives, I would have 1,250 Guard. 62 Guard per swing is... you guessed it: 5% of 1,250.

 

It's still the same numerical value, and ultimately protects the same as before. You just can have more of it. 

[KalGerion_Beast]

Ummmmmmmmmm......... Doesnt TtD generate 25% guard based on how much damage you inflict?  Because I've generated a whole bar off single hits before when striking a single target.  

 

For reference, click on the "Big Bully Katari" link in my sig and skip to the end to the DC solo.  I clearly generate more guard as TtD increases damage against DC, getting to the point where every single swing maxes my guard bar (this was before Katari got guard on hit buff too).

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Ummmmmmmmmm......... Doesnt TtD generate 25% guard based on how much damage you inflict?  Because I've generated a whole bar off single hits before when striking a single target.  

 

For reference, click on the "Big Bully Katari" link in my sig and skip to the end to the DC solo.  I clearly generate more guard as TtD increases damage against DC, getting to the point where every single swing maxes my guard bar (this was before Katari got guard on hit buff too).

 

Honestly, I think it's both yes and no. It does start at 25% base Guard on hit, but I do think you are right that it increases. I used it a lot on my Legionnaire, and literally light-switched Guard with the RTC (off, on, off, on, off) by using TtD right in front of him. I would go from none to full guard with a single hit eventually.

 

However, that was a rather long time ago, so I may not be remembering it correctly. I'll have to test it out further.

[KalGerion_Beast]

Honestly, I think it's both yes and no. It does start at 25% base Guard on hit, but I do think you are right that it increases. I used it a lot on my Legionnaire, and literally light-switched Guard with the RTC (off, on, off, on, off) by using TtD right in front of him. I would go from none to full guard with a single hit eventually.

 

However, that was a rather long time ago, so I may not be remembering it correctly. I'll have to test it out further.

I dont think it starts at 25%.

 

I remember testing it with an inquisitor greatsword a while back, and getting little to no guard from TtD.

[TheThirdRace]

So do the passives now add 50% of your base guard (12.5%), or 50% of your max health? I'd assume it's the former which would bring guard up to 50% of max health with both passives. Otherwise guard would be 125% of max health.

I can assure you, it's 50% of your max health per passive, which means 125% of your max health total (25% base, 50% each passive).

The passives bug where the 25% multiplied by itself instead of your total health has been fixed.

[Zander-o-]

I've seen this guard dance Mortiel described on my katari aswell, going to full guard by using the charge ability on the RTC, and eventually had the same happen with single greatsword hits (i was using the suvelin blade, at least i think this is the name). I haven't seen this on U8 though, as i don't use Ttd anymore, but up until U7 it was like this.

[Its Waffle Time]

I still feel that Avvar and Katari need a base guard adjustment. They have neither of the two passives to boost the base guard value. 25% is just too damn low (and I know Luke is going to counter with the Katari's health boost adjustment). 25% of 1500ish (on average) Hp for Katari is pretty low, and Avvar only gets his dmg res kick-ins on chilled units (and it doesn't kick in if he's chilled, which is odd).

 

Upping the base guard for Avvar+Katari to 50% would be a nice transition. puts them in the middle of the road.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I still feel that Avvar and Katari need a base guard adjustment. They have neither of the two passives to boost the base guard value. 25% is just too damn low (and I know Luke is going to counter with the Katari's health boost adjustment). 25% of 1500ish (on average) Hp for Katari is pretty low, and Avvar only gets his dmg res kick-ins on chilled units (and it doesn't kick in if he's chilled, which is odd).

 

Upping the base guard for Avvar+Katari to 50% would be a nice transition. puts them in the middle of the road.

 

The 2h warriors are not meant to be as defense-focused as the sword+shield warriors. However, with that said, increasing the base Guard value to 50% and lowering the Guard passives a bit would possibly be better. As long as the defensive warriors (sword+shield) have stronger defenses than the more offensive warriors (2h).

[TheThirdRace]

I still feel that Avvar and Katari need a base guard adjustment. They have neither of the two passives to boost the base guard value. 25% is just too damn low (and I know Luke is going to counter with the Katari's health boost adjustment). 25% of 1500ish (on average) Hp for Katari is pretty low, and Avvar only gets his dmg res kick-ins on chilled units (and it doesn't kick in if he's chilled, which is odd).
 
Upping the base guard for Avvar+Katari to 50% would be a nice transition. puts them in the middle of the road.

 
 

The 2h warriors are not meant to be as defense-focused as the sword+shield warriors. However, with that said, increasing the base Guard value to 50% and lowering the Guard passives a bit would possibly be better. As long as the defensive warriors (sword+shield) have stronger defenses than the more offensive warriors (2h).

I wrote 2 very detailed posts of 2000+ words in the Beta patch 8 explaining why basic Guard must be more than 25% and to reduce the passives. The answer I got was "but... but the armor buff...".

Then I explained they didn't fix Guard, they were fixing Armor which would lead to other problems because they didn't fix the source of Guard problem. I got "but... but the armor buff...".

The result of that is Guard isn't fixed and now Routine, Threatening and Perilous are a joke to play. All that because Guard was "fixed" by Armor...

Eventually I gave up. Maybe if enough people support what I've been saying all along then we might just have something that actually fix Guard...

[Its Waffle Time]

2H vs S+S are supposed to be countered by their offensive vs defensive offsets... However, thats not even close to the case.

 

ATM, S+S is capable of having 5x the total guard of the 2H variant... which is hardly balanced. Sure, all the warriors got a severe increase in armor ratios (which helps out a lot) however, this doesn't even take into consideration the fact that S+S have damn near frontal damage immunity.

 

I don't agree with an overall increase to base guard % for ALL kits, just for Katari + Avvar (I do not want it on Reaver, since it doesn't fit the kit, Reaver shouldn't have any guard generating abilities to begin with). Having Lego+Templar sit @ 25% base but have the option to get much higher defense (and godlike frontal defense) and 75% more guard total is actually quite fitting, considering 2H warriors have roughly 100-200% the offensive output. This puts the Katari and Avvar in a more self sustained but entirely offensive focused playstyle and keeps the Templar and Lego on a much higher endurable level.

[yarpenthemad21]

2H vs S+S are supposed to be countered by their offensive vs defensive offsets... However, thats not even close to the case.
 
ATM, S+S is capable of having 5x the total guard of the 2H variant... which is hardly balanced. Sure, all the warriors got a severe increase in armor ratios (which helps out a lot) however, this doesn't even take into consideration the fact that S+S have damn near frontal damage immunity.
 
I don't agree with an overall increase to base guard % for ALL kits, just for Katari + Avvar (I do not want it on Reaver, since it doesn't fit the kit, Reaver shouldn't have any guard generating abilities to begin with). Having Lego+Templar sit @ 25% base but have the option to get much higher defense (and godlike frontal defense) and 75% more guard total is actually quite fitting, considering 2H warriors have roughly 100-200% the offensive output. This puts the Katari and Avvar in a more self sustained but entirely offensive focused playstyle and keeps the Templar and Lego on a much higher endurable level.

Katari has more guard, because he has more health, around 1k more than lego or templar.
He got also one passive for armor and guard generation on the level of being just ridiculous. For me main problem with katari as katari is his poor offense. Avvar is so much better offensively that I can ignore the fact of low health-> low guard and lack of any armor bonuses.
On Katari you just charge all over. Charging bull is best he has, migthy blow is way to "ify" and when target isn't knockdowned it's a mighty blow for "massive" 200% damage.
Pommel strike tend to miss, also it's more of CC, Earthshaking strike is meh at most, whirliwind has it's "purpose" - static chage and dragons, aside it's useless.
My only problem with katari is how to get more damage and be better in offense. I just hate fact that I need to use autoattack so often and that my main damage source is freaking charge...

As for the guard passives.
In most cases one of them is enough.

Getting both is mostly and overkill for guard and what is more imporant you need to spend ability points for them.
On templar you can say that bulwark is one point, but for untouchable defense you need 2 points. And that's in general good. Templar generate guard not that great so easy to get guard passive is fine.

On Lego it is the opposite. Untachable defense - 2 points, for Bulwark we need to go for walking fortess. It opens other armor passives but in general I would say that it costs Lego more skill points to get those passives. What is also fine because he in general have more defensive tools.