320 réponses à ce sujet

[SNascimento]

Between the info we have about the setting of the next Mass Effect and the ARKCON thing being confirmed as part of ME:A, it seems a variation of some ark theory is very likely. 

I tend to dislike most of them, especially those in which the ark is developed in parallel to the crucible by the major forces of the galaxy as an contingency in case the Crucible fails. To keep the reasons short, I think it further cheapen the  reapers, which the incompetence seems beyond any comprehension, it cheapens Shepard who clearly didn't know about it, it hurt the original trilogy as you would be out of the loop in a major aspect of the war and at worst is just more prothean technology saving the day.

So that's why I'd like to ask you about alternatives to the ark theory. Or a variation of it that fix those problems I posted. Any ideas?

[Kabooooom]

Between the info we have about the setting of the next Mass Effect and the ARKCON thing being confirmed as part of ME:A, it seems a variation of some ark theory is very likely.

I tend to dislike most of them, especially those in which the ark is developed in parallel to the crucible by the major forces of the galaxy as an contingency in case the Crucible fails. To keep the reasons short, I think it further cheapen the reapers, which the incompetence seems beyond any comprehension, it cheapens Shepard who clearly didn't know about it, it hurt the original trilogy as you would be out of the loop in a major aspect of the war and at worst is just more prothean technology saving the day.

So that's why I'd like to ask you about alternatives to the ark theory. Or a variation of it that fix those problems I posted. Any ideas?

It doesn't really cheapen the Reapers. Why do you think so? Because they allowed it to happen? That is actually extremely believable to me for the same reason that the Crucible wasn't found and the same reason the Heretic Station wasn't found. If you construct the thing in interstellar space...hell, even just immediately outside of a star system, there is pretty much a zero percent chance that you could find it if you tried to look. Once ships entered the system and travelled to the coordinates via FTL, it would be untrackable. It would be like a finding a needle in a cosmic sized haystack. That's how big space is. Just like the Crucible, they wouldn't have to keep the project itself a secret...they only had to keep the location a secret, which is much easier. Location, location, location.

To address your specific question...i really dont see a way around an ark, to be honest. There are only two viable concepts: 1) a mission of exploration long after the Reaper war ends when intergalactic FTL is feasible and easy or 2) a mission of exploration through a previously discovered wormhole, relay, or alien relay-like structure.

1) canonizes an ending and therefore I think there is a zero chance Bioware would go that route.

2) is possible, but just so god damned stupid. Before the Reaper war, the discovery of something like that would be of galactic significance. There would be no reason to keep it secret, because no one knew about the Reapers. If it was discovered during the war or slightly before, and the destination then elucidated, it would be feasible but extremely plot-convenient. And then the question arises as to why they would be doing a mission of exploration in a time like that.

No, a mission of survival seems much more likely. And thus, either an intergalactic ark or an ark that utilizes one of the travel methods mentioned in (2) above will be the path Bioware probably takes. The latter would be plot-convenient, but at least more lore friendly.

[fchopin]

I tend to dislike most of them, especially those in which the ark is developed in parallel to the crucible by the major forces of the galaxy as an contingency in case the Crucible fails. 

 

It does not have to be parallel to the crucible, it could have started even before ME1 and was rushed because of the danger.

It could be a joint project from many races and it would explain that this is not just a human Andromeda game but with different species together.

[Ahriman]

I tend to dislike most of them, especially those in which the ark is developed in parallel to the crucible by the major forces of the galaxy as an contingency in case the Crucible fails. 

I tend believe that Ark construction/research should have started after ME1 and be finished at the moment of ME3. Also that Ark is not alternative to Crucible, since it was discovered only in ME3, it's alternative to being harvested.

 

To keep the reasons short, I think it further cheapen the  reapers, which the incompetence seems beyond any comprehension, it cheapens Shepard who clearly didn't know about it,

It's hard to cheapen Reapers more that ME3 did, but it's possible to hide at least one secret project in the galaxy from TIM's blue eyes. Right?

Major forces didn't trust Shepard in ME2 and in ME3 Shepard was busy with his own plan, besides he was in constant contact with Reapers and Cerberus, which doesn't add reasons to tell him. Honestly I don't see the reason why Shepard should know about Ark.

 

it hurt the original trilogy as you would be out of the loop in a major aspect of the war and at worst is just more prothean technology saving the day.

It can't hurt original trilogy because it doesn't touch. Point of trilogy - to stop Reapers, poin of Ark - survival of civilization.

And yeah, I want involvment of protheans no more than you.

[dreamgazer]

Branching off an idea that I dig from another poster on here: firing the Crucible created an accidental wormhole to Andromeda that unintentionally transported nearby ships and individuals to the new galaxy.  It eliminates the "ran away from the Reapers" mentality and ensures a wide variety of personalities would be there, some who embrace the challenge and others who "didn't ask for this".

[Monica21]

Between the info we have about the setting of the next Mass Effect and the ARKCON thing being confirmed as part of ME:A, it seems a variation of some ark theory is very likely. 

I tend to dislike most of them, especially those in which the ark is developed in parallel to the crucible by the major forces of the galaxy as an contingency in case the Crucible fails. To keep the reasons short, I think it further cheapen the  reapers, which the incompetence seems beyond any comprehension, it cheapens Shepard who clearly didn't know about it, it hurt the original trilogy as you would be out of the loop in a major aspect of the war and at worst is just more prothean technology saving the day.

So that's why I'd like to ask you about alternatives to the ark theory. Or a variation of it that fix those problems I posted. Any ideas?

 

I don't see how it cheapens Shepard. Shepard isn't needed to build the ark, if there is one. Shepard is needed to win the war. There are lots of things that people in high-level military positions don't know, and let's be honest, Shepard is important, but her rank isn't that high. It could easily just be above her pay grade. And isn't it pretty well-established that if there is an Ark the Asari are behind it? It's the Asari who mention the plans to be made and continuity of civilization. There's just no reason to tell Shepard.

[Epyon5757]

I've no problem with an ark-type theory, and it actually makes sense.  Why just lay down and allow yourselves to be harvested?  The ark project may not work, but at least the civilizations tried to find a way to survive before they died out on their home planets at the hands of the Reapers.

 

As far as plot holes...everything has plot holes.  There's not really a story that's airtight.  Just enjoy it for what it is and don't worry about the tiny, minute details - the experience itself is mostly enjoyable (hated that planet scanning game in ME2 though).

[BatarianBob]

Unless Bioware is willing to say "the Reapers were destroyed, deal with it", then I don't see any alternative. If they were willing to say that, then you've got a mission of exploration, or an escape from some more mundane issue.

[DarthSliver]

The Ark Theory created for the same reason IT theory was created because Bioware doesn't want to deal with the endings. 

[Steppenwolf]

A common theme with these anti-ark threads/posters is a pretty apparent lack of hindsight. What came before Andromeda? Lots of space magic, moron logic and a$$pulls. Somehow this Mass Effect tradition is no longer acceptable and must be avoided at all costs.
How is Cerberus a secret organization even though they have 900 trillion double-dollars and slap their logo on everything? And how did they go from a rogue black ops group to the evil corporation with endless resources in less than 2 years?
How did no one find the Catalyst plans on Mars until BioWare needed an a$$pull? That Mars archive was the most important discovery in human history but we're to believe that humans just found a few cool things like FTL travel and then stopped caring about the archive?
How do you explain anything sci-fi that doesn't make sense? Mass effect fields. Element zero.
Why did Sovereign have to activate the Citadel's relay to let the Reapers through when his boss was right there in the Citadel the whole time? Uhhhhh...
Why were the Collectors going after left handed Batarians and Turian twins and all that? They clearly had no grand plans involving such subsets of non-human species, let alone the species they came from. Such specific people serve no purpose for Reaperization, obviously. Were they just goofing off until Harbinger got to work?
Etc.

We could list dumb things about these games all week. In the grand scheme of things, in a universe where Cerberus existed, how is a secret Ark project so irredeemably dumb that it ruins the franchise?

[Nitrocuban]

It is very plausible that the council had emergency plans for a galactic extinction event long before the Reaper war like all countries during cold war on earth had.

I'd love an Ark that was built centuries ago, maybe as reaction to or during the Rachni wars. A relict, something they thought they'd never have to actually use.

An unstable wormhole with unknown destination aaaaaaaand here we go.

[Kabooooom]

It is very plausible that the council had emergency plans for a galactic extinction event long before the Reaper war like all countries during cold war on earth had.
I'd love an Ark that was built centuries ago, maybe as reaction to or during the Rachni wars. A relict, something they thought they'd never have to actually use.
An unstable wormhole with unknown destination aaaaaaaand here we go.

An ark built during the rachni war is a brilliant idea. I wish I had thought of that. It's ingenius and solves all problems that people have with the ark idea. Obviously it would have to be a non-FTL generation ship or cryo ship, but I actually prefer those ideas better anyway.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I suppose they could set it up as more of a purely scientific mission that was launched before anyone knew about the Reapers, where the crew's mission is just to go explore Andromeda and transmit their findings back to the Milky Way, knowing that the transmissions will take a very long time. I'm assuming that cryosleep will be involved either way, given the distances between the two galaxies and the presumed lack of mass relays in Andromeda. The crew would have to consist of people who were OK with leaving everyone they've ever known permanently behind, even in the absence of some looming disaster, but among a population the size of the MEU's, it's conceivable that you'd find some people willing to do that.

[Ahriman]

I suppose they could set it up as more of a purely scientific mission that was launched before anyone knew about the Reapers, where the crew's mission is just to go explore Andromeda 

Purely scientific mission with guns, warships and krogans?

 

 

 knowing that the transmissions will take a very long time. 

It will be either instant or take millions of years.

[Undead Han]

It doesn't really cheapen the Reapers. Why do you think so? Because they allowed it to happen? That is actually extremely believable to me for the same reason that the Crucible wasn't found and the same reason the Heretic Station wasn't found. If you construct the thing in interstellar space...hell, even just immediately outside of a star system, there is pretty much a zero percent chance that you could find it if you tried to look. Once ships entered the system and travelled to the coordinates via FTL, it would be untrackable. It would be like a finding a needle in a cosmic sized haystack. That's how big space is. Just like the Crucible, they wouldn't have to keep the project itself a secret...they only had to keep the location a secret, which is much easier. Location, location, location.

To address your specific question...i really dont see a way around an ark, to be honest. There are only two viable concepts: 1) a mission of exploration long after the Reaper war ends when intergalactic FTL is feasible and easy or 2) a mission of exploration through a previously discovered wormhole, relay, or alien relay-like structure.

1) canonizes an ending and therefore I think there is a zero chance Bioware would go that route.

2) is possible, but just so god damned stupid. Before the Reaper war, the discovery of something like that would be of galactic significance. There would be no reason to keep it secret, because no one knew about the Reapers. If it was discovered during the war or slightly before, and the destination then elucidated, it would be feasible but extremely plot-convenient. And then the question arises as to why they would be doing a mission of exploration in a time like that.

No, a mission of survival seems much more likely. And thus, either an intergalactic ark or an ark that utilizes one of the travel methods mentioned in (2) above will be the path Bioware probably takes. The latter would be plot-convenient, but at least more lore friendly.

 

Well said.

 

It also would be consistent with how the Reapers were portrayed. Consider for example that they missed the Prothean stasis pods on Ilos, despite it being a on a planet that was likely settled by the Protheans for centuries. The facility was a stationary target as well, unlike the ark, which could be moved as needed.

[exboomer]

Between the info we have about the setting of the next Mass Effect and the ARKCON thing being confirmed as part of ME:A, it seems a variation of some ark theory is very likely. 

I tend to dislike most of them, especially those in which the ark is developed in parallel to the crucible by the major forces of the galaxy as an contingency in case the Crucible fails. To keep the reasons short, I think it further cheapen the  reapers, which the incompetence seems beyond any comprehension, it cheapens Shepard who clearly didn't know about it, it hurt the original trilogy as you would be out of the loop in a major aspect of the war and at worst is just more prothean technology saving the day.

So that's why I'd like to ask you about alternatives to the ark theory. Or a variation of it that fix those problems I posted. Any ideas?

The problem that I have with the Ark concept is that the Star Child/Reapers would eventually have found out about it and/or Cerberus would of known about it (they seemed to have spies everywhere) so there is no way it could of remained hidden. And once the Reapers found out about it they would of destroyed it.

[Big Bad]

Branching off an idea that I dig from another poster on here: firing the Crucible created an accidental wormhole to Andromeda that unintentionally transported nearby ships and individuals to the new galaxy.  It eliminates the "ran away from the Reapers" mentality and ensures a wide variety of personalities would be there, some who embrace the challenge and others who "didn't ask for this".

Yeah, I think this could be a reasonable idea.  And the occupants of these ships would not necessarily have needed to see what "color" the energy wave was, so there would be no need to canonize an ending.  Presumably the Quarian/Geth and genophage decisions would have to be canonized, though. 

[themikefest]

Branching off an idea that I dig from another poster on here: firing the Crucible created an accidental wormhole to Andromeda that unintentionally transported nearby ships and individuals to the new galaxy.  It eliminates the "ran away from the Reapers" mentality and ensures a wide variety of personalities would be there, some who embrace the challenge and others who "didn't ask for this".

If that happens, then there's a good possiblity those folks would know what color was chosen. As soon as Shepard chooses the whatever ending, Hackett says the crucible is armed. When looking at it the player see's, green/blue/red, just as Hackett does to tell everyone to get out of the area. If he can see it others can see it as well before leaving the area

[FlyingSquirrel]

Purely scientific mission with guns, warships and krogans?

 

Well, Starfleet's mission on Star Trek is primarily exploration and science, yet their ships are armed and have security officers in recognition that the galaxy can be dangerous. Plenty of krogan are working as free-lance mercs and security guards before the genophage cure, so who's to say a few wouldn't sign up for something like that?

 

Not saying it's likely, just that it's one possibility that avoids making it an "ark" per se (in that it has nothing to do with a fallback plan for preventing total extinction) but would still permanently separate the characters from anything having to do with the Shepard trilogy.

 

 

 

It will be either instant or take millions of years.

 

I vote for "millions of years." Otherwise there's no excuse for the ME:A crew not to fire up their QEC (or whatever) and ask, "So...anyway, how'd that whole galactic war turn out?" It seems likely that the reason for jumping to Andromeda is to avoid that very question.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I would prefer the flotilla that goes to Andromeda to use the Citadel Relay which to their surprise takes them to a Citadel in Andromeda. 

 

Not the Ark Theory though. I want that theory put down. 

[Big Bad]

If that happens, then there's a good possiblity those folks would know what ending was chosen. As soon as Shepard chooses the whatever ending, Hackett says the crucible is armed. When looking at it the player see's, green/blue/red, just as Hackett does to tell everyone to get out of the area. If he can see it others can see it as well before leaving the area

Wasn't the energy wave traveling at FTL speeds?  If so, perhaps the wormhole/macguffin/whatever opened before the light from the wave reached the eyes of anybody it affected? 

 

edit:  admittedly, that's pretty dumb, but we're talking about the writers who invented synthesis here. 

[Monica21]

The problem that I have with the Ark concept is that the Star Child/Reapers would eventually have found out about it and/or Cerberus would of known about it (they seemed to have spies everywhere) so there is no way it could of remained hidden. And once the Reapers found out about it they would of destroyed it.

Why would they find out? Neither force is omnipresent.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Honestly I don't see the reason why Shepard should know about Ark.

There's just no reason to tell Shepard.

Other than to ease the stress of the single most importaqnt person in the war against the Reapers by letting them know there are other plans and not everything and everyone relies on them. 

[Feybrad]

I tend to think that the Ark would be a Sleeper Ship for an Expedition that was well in Development before even ME1 and started at some Point during the Reaper War as a Way out for mostly civilian Refugees of all Races - perhaps mostly Residents of the Citadel, so we could have a few returning Faces - who didn't think the War could be won, even though it was not intended as a Refugee Vessel. That could create some Tension on the Ship and between Members of a Crew as well, while acknowledging most of our Choices up to and including most of those made in Mass Effect 3.