320 réponses à ce sujet

[Broganisity]

Semi On-Topic:

 

A form of 'Ark mission' was started on earth in the year 2070. Privately funded, It's passengers were locked in cryogenic sleep. All contact was lost with the expedition shortly after its launch in the year 2075. This was seventy-five years before Humanity discovered Mass Relay technology.

 

An Asari expedition discovered a lost human colony in the year 2186. The colonists had no knowledge of the outside world and all the events occurred after they departed from Earth. It was the same expedition.

This was called the Manswell Expedition. It is an in-lore example of an ark type project.

 

---------------------

 

It could very well be possible that a similar method was started concurrently to the events of or prior to Mass Effect One (but after the First Contact War). A private expedition force, ARKCON, gathered passengers, scientists, security personnel, and other assorted peoples for an expedition into unknown territory. Such an event would mean nothing to people in large and the Reaper's presence in the galaxy at that point was minimal with only Sovereign and a few indoctrinated sleeper agents.

 

---------------------

 

The vessel 'Purgatory' was originally a form of 'Ark Ship' used to transport animals en masse. It was converted into a prison after the Blue Suns took it (assumedly) from humans from the Skyllian Verge. It's similar in weight and size to a cruiser.

[AlanC9]

All I think of is The Starlost ... which is actually kinda worse.

[AtreiyaN7]

I don't think having a contingency plan cheapens anything that Shepard did or cheapens the Reapers. Militaries (and other organizations) make contingency plans all the time in case things go wrong, and not everyone needs to be or should be in on the loop, especially not if secrecy is important.

 

The world/solar system/galaxy/universe never revolved solely around Shepard. There were other people making decisions and doing things to fight the Reapers, presumably. Just because Shepard was the star of the show didn't mean that he/she had to be privy to every little thing that the military and/or Council was planning.

 

I think that in this case that Shepard had no reason or need to know about the Ark if it was a contingency plan developed concurrent with the events in ME3 (or earlier) if people are right about the timeline.

[Kabooooom]

In a way, but there's no telling when said "ark" would be leaving, and under what circumstances. Not quite so obvious.

On another note, I really don't care for the continuation of the religious allusion.

Well, the exact moment of leaving is unknown, but I do think its obvious that it will be prior to the end of me3. Otherwise purpose = defeated.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The obvious problem with that reason is that you lose all the benefits of moving the setting, while still paying all the costs for moving the setting.

And running away is different...how exactly? 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Semi On-Topic:

 

A form of 'Ark mission' was started on earth in the year 2070. Privately funded, It's passengers were locked in cryogenic sleep. All contact was lost with the expedition shortly after its launch in the year 2075. This was seventy-five years before Humanity discovered Mass Relay technology.

 

An Asari expedition discovered a lost human colony in the year 2186. The colonists had no knowledge of the outside world and all the events occurred after they departed from Earth. It was the same expedition.

This was called the Manswell Expedition. It is an in-lore example of an ark type project.

 

---------------------

 

It could very well be possible that a similar method was started concurrently to the events of or prior to Mass Effect One (but after the First Contact War). A private expedition force, ARKCON, gathered passengers, scientists, security personnel, and other assorted peoples for an expedition into unknown territory. Such an event would mean nothing to people in large and the Reaper's presence in the galaxy at that point was minimal with only Sovereign and a few indoctrinated sleeper agents.

 

---------------------

 

The vessel 'Purgatory' was originally a form of 'Ark Ship' used to transport animals en masse. It was converted into a prison after the Blue Suns took it (assumedly) from humans from the Skyllian Verge. It's similar in weight and size to a cruiser.

The Manswell Expedition went to Alpha Centauri, which is 4 light years away. Andromeda is 2,538,000 light years away. The scale is so vastly different they aren't even close to being creditably comparable. 

 

How would the other races be involved? Humans are Krogan for example weren't on cooperative terms at the time you are proposing. 

[AlanC9]

And running away is different...how exactly?

You're not familiar with the argument? They don't have to decide what happened in ME3 if the Ark(s) leave before the end of ME3. That's the on.y benefit of moving the setting to Andromeda.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

You're not familiar with the argument? They don't have to decide what happened in ME3 if the Ark(s) leave before the end of ME3.

No, I'm familiar with it. I was just curious how doing that doesn't have the problem of "you lose all the benefits of moving the setting, while still paying all the costs for moving the setting" like you said the exploration/colonization route would. 

[dreamgazer]

I think it'd be interesting if this expedition to Andromeda doesn't set off until several centuries into the future. Stuff happened, the Reapers are gone, a long time passes, world-states unify, we've got the tech now, the Milky Way is having some dire issues, and we're off to another galaxy. 

[AlanC9]

No, I'm familiar with it. I was just curious how doing that doesn't have the problem of "you lose all the benefits of moving the setting, while still paying all the costs for moving the setting" like you said the exploration/colonization route would.

The problem is moving without running away from the Reapers. That didn't happen before the war, and can't happen during the war. That leaves after, doesn't it?

[Broganisity]

The Manswell Expedition went to Alpha Centauri, which is 4 light years away. Andromeda is 2,538,000 light years away. The scale is so vastly different they aren't even close to being creditably comparable. 

 

How would the other races be involved? Humans are Krogan for example weren't on cooperative terms at the time you are proposing. 

 

I'm mostly just tossing out information that might be of use on the topic:

- Ships for large scale transport of life and upkeep of such exist, with examples including Purgatory (converted into a jail as mentioned prior), the Quarian Lifeships, and even re-purposed dreadnaughts/carriers (the latter isn't an actual thing, but those things are huge.)

- Private Colonial Expeditions aren't uncommon.

 

-------------------

There is the possibility that this was part of a private corporation, though as to why it wasn't heard of before I cannot say. Something on the scale of an Ark to another galaxy would, if not a top secret venture by a government/joint-government or mega-corp, be the sort of thing people would be talking about publicly in some form or another. Something could be retconned in but my money remains on it being a top secret project, be it by a government/joint-government operation or a mega-corporation's ambitions.

 

-------------------

 

It's been brought up before, but a lot of salvage from Sovereign went missing after the events of ME1, according to Anderson in ME2. The turians had secret operatives part of the rescue and salvage team took tech from Sovereign and developed the Thanix cannon. Something similar could be applied here.

 

-------------------

 

If Ark theory is indeed correct, my assumption remains its a top secret project and that's all I really care to consider on it. When it occurs I can't say, though I'd prefer it happening as early in the trilogy as possible, thus allowing and ensuring that the existence of fan favorite races remains a thing.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The problem is moving without running away from the Reapers. That didn't happen before the war, and can't happen during the war. That leaves after, doesn't it?

Yeah. And? 

 

I'm mostly just tossing out information that might be of use on the topic:

- Ships for large scale transport of life and upkeep of such exist, with examples including Purgatory (converted into a jail as mentioned prior), the Quarian Lifeships, and even re-purposed dreadnaughts/carriers (the latter isn't an actual thing, but those things are huge.)
- Private Colonial Expeditions aren't uncommon.

There is the possibility that this was part of a private corporation, though as to why it wasn't heard of before I cannot say. Something on the scale of an Ark to another galaxy would, if not a top secret venture by a government/joint-government or mega-corp, be the sort of thing people would be talking about publicly in some form or another. Something could be retconned in but my money remains on it being a top secret project, be it by a government/joint-government operation or a mega-corporation's ambitions.

 

It's been brought up before, but a lot of salvage from Sovereign went missing after the events of ME1, according to Anderson in ME2. The turians had secret operatives part of the rescue and salvage team took tech from Sovereign and developed the Thanix cannon. Something similar could be applied here.

Ah, okay. I thought you were using the Manswell Expedition as an example of it being possible, not just a proof of concept.

 

While live ships exist, live ships capable of making an intergalactic voyage don't. There's things like the drive discharge problem, having enough power, having enough fuel, having enough space for crew and supplies, etc. 

 

Yeah, if it wasn't a secret project there is no way it wouldn't have been heard of. Even top secret projects aren't secret, since there are lots of rumors about the Crucible being talked about by the galactic community. 

 

The only part of Sovereign that would be useful for this venture is Sovereign's core, and that exploded and the pieces recovered by Cerberus. 

[shodiswe]

I don't Think they are being built side by side but rather that they might be putting in the finnishing touches and last bits of cargo when the Crusible Project is presented.

The councilors who're at first hessitant of the Crusible eventually come along as their other huge Project is comming to an end. If the catalyst at any Point wanted the crusible, then it might Think they were working on the crusible for the 500th time.... Otherwise it might not have been concerned since it had failed hundreds of times.

The advantage the council had was that Shepard could tell them the Citadel was a trap and the Reapers used it to gather intel on all the goingons in the galaxy. This meant they could obscure things they wanted to keep secret from the Reapers, or feed them missinformation about where the Resources allocated are going. with hundreds of Worlds it's easy to hide away Ark or Crusible materials and pretend it's toothbrushes wrenches and screwdrivers...... You get the idea.
No other cycle had discovered the Reaeprs prior to their invasion according to what we've been told or that the Citadel was a trap, not even the Proteans knew it was a trap until the Reapers invaded and took Control.

Advantage to the council, true, they still didn't know about the Catalyst, but they knew the Citadel was spying on them and gathering intel.

[AlanC9]

Yeah. And? 

And now you've lost the only advantage moving to Andromeda ever had.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And now you've lost the only advantage moving to Andromeda ever had.

 Except I consider that 'advantage' as part of the negative costs of moving the franchise. 

[AlleyD]

I'd rather have the traverse being accomplished using a giant mutated space hamster, with the humans, krogan and  the rest of the returning cast of species clinging onto its fur like tiny little fleas as it trundles through dark space on a wheel made of the corpses of Reapers and space junk.

[Broganisity]

While live ships exist, live ships capable of making an intergalactic voyage don't. There's things like the drive discharge problem, having enough power, having enough fuel, having enough space for crew and supplies, etc. 

 

---------------

 

Yeah, if it wasn't a secret project there is no way it wouldn't have been heard of. Even top secret projects aren't secret, since there are lots of rumors about the Crucible being talked about by the galactic community. 

 

---------------

 

The only part of Sovereign that would be useful for this venture is Sovereign's core, and that exploded and the pieces recovered by Cerberus. 

 

Honestly, I'm partial to the idea of it being a unified flotilla rather than just one lone ship. . .I mean, the measurements of the biblical ark are too small for it to hold 'two of every (land and air) animal on earth'.

 

You could have supply ships, ships for living aboard, farm ships. . . but the problem of hiding such a fleet would remain. Have enough ships in an area and it'd be easy to detect.

---------------

 

Huzzah, we agree on something!

 

---------------
 

Sovereign's core did explode, but it was not taken by Cerberus. Cerberus acquired various (undefined) parts that it used in the making of EDI, but parts of Sovereign's eezo core we mentioned as taken by the Turians (and their Office of Technological Reconnaissance) and used in the creation of the Thanix cannon.

[shodiswe]

Because some explanation for why resources are being diverted from the construction of the Crucible would be needed, something the Shadow Broker is tracking. Either way, Shepard's going to find out.
 

As soon as Shepard draws attention to a system, as pointed out above (Reaper Alertness), the Reapers are there and reaping.

Do that with the ark system, and you're screwed.
 
How do you avoid that? Tell Shepard where it's at so they don't make the mistake.

The Shadowbroker couldn't track that, the Shadowbroker might be concerned that Resources arn't flowing her way though, but if a collony wants resoruces and the Council approves it, then what's she supposed to say? On colonies with a population of billions it's easy to obscure where Resources are going.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Honestly, I'm partial to the idea of it being a unified flotilla rather than just one lone ship. . .I mean, the measurements of the biblical ark are too small for it to hold 'two of every (land and air) animal on earth'.

 

You could have supply ships, ships for living aboard, farm ships. . . but the problem of hiding such a fleet would remain. Have enough ships in an area and it'd be easy to detect.

---------------

 

Huzzah, we agree on something!

 

---------------
 

Sovereign's core did explode, but it was not taken by Cerberus. Cerberus acquired various (undefined) parts that it used in the making of EDI, but parts of Sovereign's eezo core we mentioned as taken by the Turians (and their Office of Technological Reconnaissance) and used in the creation of the Thanix cannon.

Well, it wasn't supposed to. It was to hold two of every animal in the world. The world in that time to the people living there was just the valley. Just like how for a while the Americas, Australia, and Antarctica weren't seen as part of the world because they weren't discovered yet. But Bible studies lessons aside, I agree it is more likely to be a flotilla than an ark ship. After all, the leak mentioned a krogan colony ship, as in a colony ship just for the krogans. Why would it say that if we were all on the same ship. The fact we will be in a scouting ship of some kind is evidence of that, since I doubt we will be piloting a giant ark ship but merely a scouting vessel. 

 

We've agreed on other things before, right? Right?

 

Sovereign's main gun was taken by the Turians, but it never mentioned the core being taken. Plus the part to make EDI that Cerberus would need from Sovereign is the core, since that would have where the intelligence was housed. 

[Broganisity]

Well, it wasn't supposed to. It was to hold two of every animal in the world. The world in that time to the people living there was just the valley. Just like how for a while the Americas, Australia, and Antarctica weren't seen as part of the world because they weren't discovered yet. But Bible studies lessons aside, I agree it is more likely to be a flotilla than an ark ship. After all, the leak mentioned a krogan colony ship, as in a colony ship just for the krogans. Why would it say that if we were all on the same ship. The fact we will be in a scouting ship of some kind is evidence of that, since I doubt we will be piloting a giant ark ship but merely a scouting vessel. 

 

---------------

 

We've agreed on other things before, right? Right?

 

---------------

 

Sovereign's main gun was taken by the Turians, but it never mentioned the core being taken. Plus the part to make EDI that Cerberus would need from Sovereign is the core, since that would have where the intelligence was housed. 

We'll mostly get a Frigate (maneuverability) but I hope we get a cruiser-class (standard patrol ship). . .if only so I can say 'Battlecruiser, operational' whenever I go somewhere.

 

------------

 

Barring our taste in animated feature films, not really.

 

------------

 

I'm referring to the eezo core, here is a link to its codex file stating such. There is no mention of what was taken from Sovereign and transplanted into the AI that became EDI, other than to give it 'Anti-Reaper algorithms'.

 

Though, in regards to access to a core for the ark, we only have the following options, all of which are. . .unlikely:

Sovereign: Core destroyed.

Derelict Reaper: Crushed by planetary gravity.

 

Leviathan of Dis: Possibly not actually dead, taken by Batarians. . .Batarian-led Ark would be notably impossible. . .and human-less if possible.

Unnamed Destroyers: those reapers killed by Shepard during the events of Mass Effect 3. . .damage level unknown.

[Drone223]

Harry Truman wasn't briefed on the Manhattan Project until he assumed the presidency. While Vice President of the United States he did not know that his country was developing a nuclear weapon. In fact in 1943 Truman's senatorial investigation into war production expenditures uncovered expenditures linked to a suspicious factory. The plant was linked to the Manhattan Project, but Truman hadn't even heard of the Manhattan Project. When he asked questions about the factory he received a stern warning from FDR's secretary of war not to inquire further.

 

On that note I don't find Shepard not being briefed on an ark project to be an issue. He's quite a few steps down the ladder than Truman was. 

The thing about an ark project is that the logistics involved would be on a similar scale to the crucible. It's going to be impossible to keep it secret it forever and rumors of its existence would eventually get it out before its even finished like the crucible.

[Ahriman]

 

I'm referring to the eezo core, here is a link to its codex file stating such. There is no mention of what was taken from Sovereign and transplanted into the AI that became EDI, other than to give it 'Anti-Reaper algorithms'.

Turians used eezo core parts of weapon, not Sovereign's engine. In fact game never mentions what happened to it, whether it was destroyed or not.

[Dean_the_Young]

And we saw how well those worked. Someone who has constant PTSD nightmares is stressed to extreme levels. Shepard had what they thought was the fate of the entire galaxy on their shoulders. Having a comfy room won't help that.

 

Not to put it too gently, but...

 

Get over yourself, Shepherd.

 

Shepherd stopped being the indispensible (wo)man after Liara took the beacon and the cipher. Everything else was the story of a legendarily lucky, but not uniquely capable, special forces soldier. Only 3-ish squadmates joined in ME2 because of Shepherd in particular. Not one plot event in ME3 depended on something unique about Shepehrd.

 

Shepherd having bad dreams and guilt trip, when most of the galaxy (and Humanity) is facing far worse, puts him pretty low down on the 'how serious are your issues?' column. Having a messiah complex doesn't entitle them to whatever they want because it might make them feel better.

 

That's just self-centered arrogance.

[Dean_the_Young]

Unless you've developed indoctrination detection devices, nobody's safe anyway. Anyone working on Noah's Space Ark could be aligned with the Reapers. 

 

Which is an excellent argument for not employing or telling people believed, or known, to have been in repeated proximity with them. To minimize an unavoidable risk.

 

It's a very poor argument for maximizing risk.

[Dean_the_Young]

And running away is different...how exactly? 

 

The cost of moving a setting is that you lose familiar places and pieces. The gain of moving the setting is that it allows you to avoid canonizing or diminishing the impacts of a choice: as long as you don't show what happens after a choice, everyone is still able to have their headcanon unimpeded. The post-choice environment is something of a schrodenger box.

 

If you move the setting, but keep contact with the old setting, then you're still sacrificing the familiar places and pieces but also opening the schrodenger box of what happened. Which defeats the primary purpose of moving a setting.