320 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

And running away is different...how exactly? 

 

So your problem is with the setting, the ark concept (if proven true), and that you see those on the ark as cowardly if they do leave?

[Jester]

So... How would the Ark be kept secret from the Shadow Broker? 

Because I'm willing to believe Hackett/Asari Councillor would keep this secret from Shepard. I truly am. But I refuse to believe romanced Liara would keep it secret as well. 

[Samahl na Revas]

Shepard is the N7 in the trailer... One more Story.

 

I find it hard to believe that the Ark was kept secret, I mean thinking back to the comic book even the whole Lazarus project finding and getting Shepard the Reaper agents somehow someone knew. 

 

I mean even if they were under NDA, leaks whether on purpose or not do happen. Now think about the people working on this project. They are told they can't contact family while the whole world is coming down around them. Unless their is some plan to take family with them, someone would try to sneak someone not on the list into the ship. Battlestar galactica, the threat was still present which is more realistic. 

[Torgette]

Firing the Crucible actually causes all the dark energy in the milky way to start forming black holes, consuming all the home worlds and thus forcing everybody to leave.

[SNascimento]

So... How would the Ark be kept secret from the Shadow Broker? 

Because I'm willing to believe Hackett/Asari Councillor would keep this secret from Shepard. I truly am. But I refuse to believe romanced Liara would keep it secret as well. 

Keeping a secret from Liara don't seem that hard. Just look at the Prothean beacon in Thessia or Sanctuary. But I'd say that she knowing and not telling Shepard would be another injury. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

We'll mostly get a Frigate (maneuverability) but I hope we get a cruiser-class (standard patrol ship). . .if only so I can say 'Battlecruiser, operational' whenever I go somewhere.

 

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Barring our taste in animated feature films, not really.

 

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I'm referring to the eezo core, here is a link to its codex file stating such. There is no mention of what was taken from Sovereign and transplanted into the AI that became EDI, other than to give it 'Anti-Reaper algorithms'.

 

Though, in regards to access to a core for the ark, we only have the following options, all of which are. . .unlikely:

Sovereign: Core destroyed.

Derelict Reaper: Crushed by planetary gravity.

 

Leviathan of Dis: Possibly not actually dead, taken by Batarians. . .Batarian-led Ark would be notably impossible. . .and human-less if possible.

Unnamed Destroyers: those reapers killed by Shepard during the events of Mass Effect 3. . .damage level unknown.

Well, the leak said the ship's name is Tempest so it may not be a military classification as we know it, but a civilian ship that has been upgraded to military specks. Like maybe a corvette-equivalent. 

 

That is the eezo core of the weapon, not of Sovereign. 

 

Yeah, all the Reapers that are killed we can't get access to them for one reason or another.

 

Not to put it too gently, but...

 

Get over yourself, Shepherd.

 

Shepherd stopped being the indispensible (wo)man after Liara took the beacon and the cipher. Everything else was the story of a legendarily lucky, but not uniquely capable, special forces soldier. Only 3-ish squadmates joined in ME2 because of Shepherd in particular. Not one plot event in ME3 depended on something unique about Shepehrd.

 

Shepherd having bad dreams and guilt trip, when most of the galaxy (and Humanity) is facing far worse, puts him pretty low down on the 'how serious are your issues?' column. Having a messiah complex doesn't entitle them to whatever they want because it might make them feel better.

 

That's just self-centered arrogance.

Wow. Just...just wow. Do you say "Get over yourself." to everyone else with PTSD? 

Shepard suffers the loss of friends, the stress of the fact every minute they don't stop the Reapers thousands of people die, people dying for/because of them, etc. That's hardly self-centered arrogance. 

Also, Liara doesn't have the Cipher. If she did, she would have understood that one recording on Ilos, but she didn't. 

 

The cost of moving a setting is that you lose familiar places and pieces. The gain of moving the setting is that it allows you to avoid canonizing or diminishing the impacts of a choice: as long as you don't show what happens after a choice, everyone is still able to have their headcanon unimpeded. The post-choice environment is something of a schrodenger box.

 

If you move the setting, but keep contact with the old setting, then you're still sacrificing the familiar places and pieces but also opening the schrodenger box of what happened. Which defeats the primary purpose of moving a setting.

You say it avoids diminishing the impacts of a choice, but that's exactly what this move does. Every choice you make is now diminished and filed away into headcanon territory. For a series that has been advertised as "Your Choices Matter", that's not a gain. 

 

So your problem is with the setting, the ark concept (if proven true), and that you see those on the ark as cowardly if they do leave?

Those are some of the problems I have with this, yes. 

Though the setting itself not neccesarily. If the expedition began sometime after the Reaper War, going to Andromeda wouldn't bug me, at least not as much, because it gives time for the lore to adapt and allow it. 

[Monica21]

Those are some of the problems I have with this, yes. 

Though the setting itself not so much. If the expedition began sometime after the Reaper War, going to Andromeda wouldn't bug me, at least not as much. 

 

 

If there is an ark and it does leave before the Crucible fires, I really have no idea how sending multiple races off to another galaxy specifically to avoid extinction qualifies as cowardly. To use another real-world example, that's like saying the Jews who fled Germany were cowards simply for wanting to stay alive.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If there is an ark and it does leave before the Crucible fires, I really have no idea how sending multiple races off to another galaxy specifically to avoid extinction qualifies as cowardly. To use another real-world example, that's like saying the Jews who fled Germany were cowards simply for wanting to stay alive.

Because it fits the definition of the term, which is "a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.". 

It's the Fight or Flight survival instinct. Is it a smart thing to do? Absolutely. Is it a cowardly thing to do? By the definition of the term, yes. 

[Monica21]

Because it fits the definition of the term, which is "a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.". 

It's the Fight or Flight survival instinct. Is it a smart thing to do? Absolutely. Is it a cowardly thing to do? By the definition of the term, yes. 

 

You don't think there are a least some elements of courage in traveling in an intergalactic star ship, not knowing if you'll survive, not knowing what awaits you, and knowing that there are lot of possible ways to die in space, including a bunch you'd never thought of? You don't think those people know they're "facing danger, difficulty, opposition, and pain"?

 

There were a couple of guys in a pre-Apollo mission who died in when the capsule blew up on the launch pad. The damn thing didn't even go anywhere. The Challenger, a shuttle that had flown multiple missions, blew up seconds after launch. The Endeavor burned up on re-entry because a few pieces of heat shielding got knocked loose during launch. Everybody on Apollo 13 nearly died from starvation or freezing or a combination of both. Everything about space travel is dangerous, even the stuff we've done. I don't even want to think about how scary it would be to send an ark to another galaxy.

[dreamgazer]

Which is an excellent argument for not employing or telling people believed, or known, to have been in repeated proximity with them. To minimize an unavoidable risk.

 

It's a very poor argument for maximizing risk.

 

There's no telling who really was or wasn't in repeated proximity, though. Indoctrinated agents could be anywhere.

 

There are benefits to telling Shepard, however, the big one being: "Keep the Reapers away from this place."

 

Remember what happens when Shepard goes searching for the Leviathans? 

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You don't think there are a least some elements of courage in traveling in an intergalactic star ship, not knowing if you'll survive, not knowing what awaits you, and knowing that there are lot of possible ways to die in space, including a bunch you'd never thought of? You don't think those people know they're "facing danger, difficulty, opposition, and pain"?

 

There were a couple of guys in a pre-Apollo mission who died in when the capsule blew up on the launch pad. The damn thing didn't even go anywhere. The Challenger, a shuttle that had flown multiple missions, blew up seconds after launch. The Endeavor burned up on re-entry because a few pieces of heat shielding got knocked loose during launch. Everybody on Apollo 13 nearly died from starvation or freezing or a combination of both. Everything about space travel is dangerous, even the stuff we've done. I don't even want to think about how scary it would be to send an ark to another galaxy.

Do you think the people in charge of the ark are going to tell people of these dangers before they lie to and kidnap them and make all communication to their friends and families impossible? Do you think the people will be thinking about that more than thinking about the known dangers of the Reapers? Their mindset is one of "Get me out of here", and there is nothing courageous in that. 

 

The people you listed were all volunteers and knew of the dangers, but did it anyway for the sole reason of exploration. That is a lot different than what the ark represents. Now if the trip to Andromeda is for exploration and everyone involved volunteered to see those reasons fulfilled, then I retract my statement. But then it doesn't follow Ark Theory anymore. 

[Monica21]

Why would you think the occupants of the Ark were kidnapped and lied to?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why would you think the occupants of the Ark were kidnapped and lied to?

Well, if this ark is as top secret as Ark Theory claims it is to the point where there are no leaks whatsoever, that means the people responsible didn't tell those selected its true purpose until after they arrived and then kept them there possibly against their will and severed all contact with the outside world, even contacting their friends and family. That sure sounds like kidnapping to me. If so, I retract my coward statement and instead turn my attention on the terrible people the people in charge are. 

[AlanC9]

Remember what happens when Shepard goes searching for the Leviathans? 
 

But doesn't Shepard spend most of his time on the fringes of organic-controlled space, in systems that are Reaper-occupied or soon to be? Presumably they wouldn't be building an ark there.

[dreamgazer]

But doesn't Shepard spend most of his time on the fringes of organic-controlled space, in systems that are Reaper-occupied or soon to be? Presumably they wouldn't be building an ark there.

 

They still need to be within a reasonable distance of the relays, though, for the transport of resources and personnel.  

 

Once you ring a bell for the Reapers to come, there's no un-ringing it. 

[DarthSliver]

Maybe we find out Shepard was getting indoctrinated so those slides in the EU were Shepard under its effect still and the Crucible did exactly what it was suppose to do and Destroyed the Reapers. So by the point the Crucible fired Shepard was pretty much on Reaper drugs with those slides. Hence why refusing or doing nothing leads to losing and the cycle continuing. 

 

^^This^^   

 

Would allow them to set it in the future and make going to Andromeda expanding our territory, hence the western feel to the game they presented in the teaser trailer. You know how humans are, we always want more and what we have isn't enough lol. 

[AlanC9]

IT? Eww. Declaring that the choices were fake is also a bizarre way to honor player choice.

[AlanC9]

They still need to be within a reasonable distance of the relays, though, for the transport of resources and personnel.  
 
Once you ring a bell for the Reapers to come, there's no un-ringing it.

Yeah, but which relays? I just don't see how Shepard's likely to blunder into a relay that leads to the place. Of course, we never see a full map of the network., so I guess it's conceivable that it could be set up that way.

[Ahriman]

Well, if this ark is as top secret as Ark Theory claims it is to the point where there are no leaks whatsoever, that means the people responsible didn't tell those selected its true purpose until after they arrived and then kept them there possibly against their will and severed all contact with the outside world, even contacting their friends and family. That sure sounds like kidnapping to me. If so, I retract my coward statement and instead turn my attention on the terrible people the people in charge are. 

If I were in charge of such project, I'd simply keep lists of people chosen for Ark until last moment when "plans must be put in motion", after which in a matter of days you can simply tell that they are being evacuated from incoming Reaper forces. Bringing so many people sooner than necessary is too dangerous.

[DarthSliver]

IT? Eww. Declaring that the choices were fake is also a bizarre way to honor player choice.

 

You know this is only a problem because they wanted the Crucible to fire funny colors and not just nuke the Reapers. The choices we made during the trilogy should've effected how effective the Crucible was protected so it could fire. 

 

Also the IT I presented works better than the original because it saids all choices destroy the Reapers just Shepard gets high off Reaper Indoctrination and see funny stuff lol. Only choice it negates is refuse because refuse allows the Reapers to win. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If I were in charge of such project, I'd simply keep lists of people chosen for Ark until last moment when "plans must be put in motion", after which in a matter of days you can simply tell that they are being evacuated from incoming Reaper forces. Bringing so many people sooner than necessary is too dangerous.

That's still doing everything I said, just on a small time frame. I never specified how long the people were gathered. 

[Monica21]

Well, if this ark is as top secret as Ark Theory claims it is to the point where there are no leaks whatsoever, that means the people responsible didn't tell those selected its true purpose until after they arrived and then kept them there possibly against their will and severed all contact with the outside world, even contacting their friends and family. That sure sounds like kidnapping to me. If so, I retract my coward statement and instead turn my attention on the terrible people the people in charge are. 

 

That's a pretty imaginative tale. So if the "kidnapped explorers" are in fact, kidnapped, they're not cowardly at all. They're prisoners. Coward Theory is still invalid.

[AlanC9]

You know this is only a problem because they wanted the Crucible to fire funny colors and not just nuke the Reapers. The choices we made during the trilogy should've effected how effective the Crucible was protected so it could fire.

They did. Also, the genophage. And the geth and quarians. And the rachni. And Kahje. And so forth. The problem is that it's almost impossible to screw up your choices enough to end up in a low-EMS state. Bad implementation.

Also the IT I presented works better than the original because it saids all choices destroy the Reapers just Shepard gets high off Reaper Indoctrination and see funny stuff lol. Only choice it negates is refuse because refuse allows the Reapers to win.

So declaring that Control and Synthesis were fake indoctrinated choices diesn't negate them? I don't check your math there.

Anyway, IT is too hated. This one's a nonstarter. If you want to canonize Destroy, do it honestly.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's a pretty imaginative tale. So if the "kidnapped explorers" are in fact, kidnapped, they're not cowardly at all. They're prisoners. Coward Theory is still invalid.

I never had that as a theory, just an opinion. 

[Monica21]

I never had that as a theory, just an opinion. 

 

Based on what? I'm honestly curious how you got to "kidnapped explorers" based on what little we know about the game.