320 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahriman]

Why does everyone think the ARK has to be something from an official Organisation? I'm pretty sure that there are enough private Sponsors with the necessary Money - like, for only one Example, the Trace Princes of Ilium - to build an Ark, that would be a Generation or Sleeper Ship, that could serve as their private Project to escape the Reapers if Things get serious. No need to have Shepard involved at all or even make it a Project as resource-eating as the Crucible. I like to imagine, that it is actually not a large Group of People that makes it to Andromeda at all.

It doesn't have to, but given words of Asari councilor and Citadel archives, government project seems more likely.

 

I half-expect that we'll find that it was part of a Cerberus back-up plan, the more legitimate Sanctuary.

 

If you look at the ARKCON patch, you can actually see it half of a modified Cerberus symbol. It'd be right up their alley too.

I wouldn't read too much into it, for example it also resembles Renegade Star.

Spoiler

But since Walters is involved it's quite possible, yes.

 

It's not even that far fetched either. We see the same thing happening to the Normandy, who gets sucked into something that looks like a wormhole and crashes on a random unexplored planet somewhere in the galaxy. The very same thing is bound to happen to a lot of other ships and it's not that much of a stretch to think that some of these ships might be stranded in the Andromeda galaxy.

It is far-fetched in terms of colonization equipment and sustainable population. Krogan and salarian females are too valuable to travel on random ships, saying that they all got there just in time to be sucked into Andromeda is also far-fetched.

[Steppenwolf]

Apparently that known Cerberus operative was trusted with knowing the location of the crucible to send supplies and people.

Okay? Who cares? You're either assuming that the people who made the Crucible are the same people who made the Ark or that the people who made the Ark are so stupid that they just say "Well, those other dudes trust him..." and spill the beans to the biggest security risk in the galaxy.
Every bit of logic that you're employing is faulty. "If you tell Shepard about the Ark the Reapers will never find it because Shepard will avoid it." is the galaxy 99% uncharted or is that just a convenient lie from the anti-Andromeda folks?

[themikefest]

Okay? Who cares? You're either assuming that the people who made the Crucible are the same people who made the Ark or that the people who made the Ark are so stupid that they just say "Well, those other dudes trust him..." and spill the beans to the biggest security risk in the galaxy.

You're the one who is assuming that I think that. I've never said that. All I said if they were to of told Shepard about the project, he/she wouldn't leak the whereabouts of the ark/ship/whatever just like she/he never leaked the whereabouts of the crucible
 

Every bit of logic that you're employing is faulty.

No its not. You're the one who believes that Shepard would reveal the location of the project if he/she is told about it
 

"If you tell Shepard about the Ark the Reapers will never find it because Shepard will avoid it."

What happens if Shepard is near the location where the project is, but doesn't know about it and just in the area to scan a planet for assets?

 

is the galaxy 99% uncharted or is that just a convenient lie from the anti-Andromeda folks?

Why are you worried about what others say?

[AlanC9]

What happens if Shepard is near the location where the project is, but doesn't know about it and just in the area to scan a planet for assets?

Clusters with assets are already Reaper-controlled. The whole point of Shepard doing the looking is that Normandy is stealth-capable and can get the stuff when nobody else can.

Anyway, the issue is entirely hypothetical. Shepard might need to be told if his course will take hin near the thing. Until he does that, he doesn't need to know.

[themikefest]

Systems with assets are already Reaper-controlled. The whole point of Shepard doing the looking is that Normandy is stealth-capable and can get the stuff when nobody else can.

When scanning in the system that eden prime is located for assets, no reapers are alerted at all

[Steppenwolf]

You're the one who is assuming that I think that. I've never said that. All I said if they were to of told Shepard about the project, he/she wouldn't leak the whereabouts of the ark/ship/whatever just like she/he never leaked the whereabouts of the crucible

How would they know that? Why would they take that risk? Telling Shepard what and where the Ark is offers no benefits. It only increases the risk of being found by Reapers/Reaper agents.
 

No its not. You're the one who believes that Shepard would reveal the location of the project if he/she is told about it

What? The hell are you talking about?
 

What happens if Shepard is near the location where the project is, but doesn't know about it and just in the area to scan a planet for assets?

What happens when I stand inside a grocery store and get hit by 4 lightning bolts? Nothing, because it's a mathematical impossibility that no one would ever need to plan for or worry about. The galaxy is so vast and underexplored that the Ark builders could hide in a million locations and never risk being found.
 

Why are you worried about what others say?

...I'm not even sure if you're just trolling or not.

[themikefest]

How would they know that? Why would they take that risk? Telling Shepard what and where the Ark is offers no benefits. It only increases the risk of being found by Reapers/Reaper agents.

Then why tell Shepard the location of the crucible? Why would Hackett take that risk?

I have no idea why they would tell Shepard and I never said they would
 

What? The hell are you talking about?

Ask yourself that question. You seem to be convinced Shepard would leak the whereabouts of the project if he/she knows about the location of the project. If its leaked I would be looking at people who are directly involved with the project
 
 

The galaxy is so vast and underexplored that the Ark builders could hide in a million locations and never risk being found.

No kidding
 
 

...I'm not even sure if you're just trolling or not.

It seems that you are bothered by folks that don't like the idea of going to Andromeda that you had to make that comment about them

[Steppenwolf]

Then why tell Shepard the location of the crucible? Why would Hackett take that risk?

Because ME3 is a poorly written game? Because Hackett knows Anderson enough to trust his judgment? Because Shepard is the one who found the damn thing? The Crucible is not the Ark.
 

I have no idea why they would tell Shepard and I never said they would

You said they definitely should tell him where the Ark is and you employed the faultiest of logic to support that view.
 

Ask yourself that question. You seem to be convinced Shepard would leak the whereabouts of the project if he/she knows about the location of the project. If its leaked I would be looking at people who are directly involved with the project

Show me where I said Shepard would leak the location of the Ark if he knew where it was. Go ahead. I'll wait.
 
 

No kidding

 
So you concede that your logic is faulty. Good.
 

It seems that you are bothered by folks that don't like the idea of going to Andromeda that you had to make that comment about them

I'm bothered by the folks who hold Andromeda to a different standard than the trilogy and try to use faulty logic to justify their hypocrisy.

[themikefest]

You said they definitely should tell him where the Ark is and you employed the faultiest of logic to support that view.

Show me where I said that. Go ahead. I'll wait
 

Show me where I said Shepard would leak the location of the Ark if he knew where it was. Go ahead. I'll wait.

I never said you did. I said you seem convinced that Shepard will release the location of the project without mentioning that someone else can leak the location.
 
 

So you concede that your logic is faulty. Good.

I don't concede anything. I only agree that the loacation of the project can be anywhere in the galaxy
 
 

I'm bothered by the folks who hold Andromeda to a different standard than the trilogy and try to use faulty logic to justify their hypocrisy.

So.

[Steppenwolf]

Show me where I said that. Go ahead. I'll wait

I never said you did. I said you seem convinced that Shepard will release the location of the project without mentioning that someone else can leak the location.
 
I don't concede anything. I only agree that the loacation of the project can be anywhere in the galaxy
 
So.

This is like arguing with a child.

[Drone223]

Lol, biotics, FTL, indoctrination, element zero, Lazarus Project and Crucible? So space magic is now a law of physics.

Biotics, eezo and FTL aren't space magic because they're made believable within the limitations of the lore and don't breaks players suspension of disbelief. When you have things such as Lazarus project and synthesis that break the lore and ruin players suspension of disbelief that's when you get space magic.

[DarthSliver]

Biotics, eezo and FTL aren't space magic because they're made believable within the limitations of the lore and don't breaks players suspension of disbelief. When you have things such as Lazarus project and synthesis that break the lore and ruin players suspension of disbelief that's when you get space magic.

 

I don't know why they had to kill Shepard to do what they did, I am sure there was another way they could do it. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It's really quite simple. All the writers have to do is say that the ark can do it. After all lore in the Mass Effect Universe is some kind of zany free-for-all to begin with. The writers don't observe lore and change when it suits their purpose. They forget something that got written earlier then write some ass pull after the fact to justify what they wrote. The entire story as of March 2012 was full of ass pulls and plot holes. They realized this, and even decided that to fill one of the holes the solution was to dig a bigger hole (The EC). And then dig another hole (Leviathan), which while a fun DLC was only a plot device the dirt from the hole used to partially fill in the hole created by the existence of Starbrat. Other plot holes they didn't even care about - like populations being able to recognize the "indoctrinated", but we fight the indoctrinated ones as husks for the abomination aesthetic so we're shooting zombies instead of people.

 

So don't worry about this ark making it to Andromeda. It'll be able to do so without discharging the FTL drives. They'll shoot down a reaper early in the war, or one of the Cerberus scientists who is working on the project under cover has the plans for the derelict reaper's FTL and Mass Effect Core, and suddenly "came up with an idea" for the ark's drive and power. You wait and see.

 

Cerberus is an idea, and you can't kill ideas.

[Drone223]

I don't know why they had to kill Shepard to do what they did, I am sure there was another way they could do it. 

Putting Shepard in a coma for two years would have been more believable since it would achieve the exact same thing, LP is just style over substance.

[rapscallioness]

Well, you know, the Ark could very well be a corporate venture and have nothing to do with the Council or the military or the public arena. They could have worked on it on Noveria, or somewhere on Illium.

 

Maybe one or two of those filthy rich and powerful sons of guns actually took Shep seriously about the Reapers and prepared. If for nothing else than to save their company people and their resources, and probably themselves.

 

This could have started right after ME1 really. Pieces of Sovereign all over the place. The public may have been convinced that it was geth, but some of those companies with their scientists and research could very well see that it was not geth. Maybe they even looted some Reaper tech for themselves.

[blahblahblah]

Biotics, eezo and FTL aren't space magic because they're made believable within the limitations of the lore and don't breaks players suspension of disbelief. When you have things such as Lazarus project and synthesis that break the lore and ruin players suspension of disbelief that's when you get space magic.

Its hard to argue to people that is full of double-standards.

[Kabooooom]

I also think that the Crucible deployment provides a better solution to establishing how M/W species end up in Andromeda. I don't think the Wormhole part is needed though. Mass Effect relays work in tandem, one side imposing massive acceleration- the other side imposing a braking or deceleration effect.

The Crucible wave was powerful enough to overload the Mass Relays over the entire galactic network. I think it is logical to assume that it was powerful enough to override the braking effects of these relays, causing any any ship caught in it to be swept along (or surf the leading edge of the wave) until the wave is dissipated by natural forces

That's not how mass relays really work though. There are just two relays, pointed at each other. Between them is a mass free corridor of space. Meaning anything that enters the corridor also decreases their mass to near zero. But energy is conserved, so as the mass decreases, the speed of light in a vacuum exponentially increases. As mass approaches zero, the speed of light approaches infinity. Any momentum that the ship had upon entering the relay remains, and that is where the "acceleration" comes from. As force equals mass times acceleration, a given force from thrusters when applied to a negligible mass causes an enormous acceleration. Once the ship reaches the opposite side, the mass raises again and the velocity returns to normal.

So a ship couldn't "ride a mass effect wave" to reach another galaxy from overloading the relay network.

[Drone223]

Its hard to argue to people that is full of double-standards.

Except it's not double standards, if Bioware makes mistakes/error's in their writing they should be called out on it.

[Gwydden]

It has to be a large enough group of each race that is involved to viably sustain their populations.

Fifty individuals are about enough to sustain a population safely. Of course, it would probably vary depending on the species. Fifty krogan would likely die off. But a few thousand of each species would be a negligible sum when every major faction has billions upon billions of people in their homeworlds and colonies.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the overall population of the Ark was similar to that of the quarian Flotilla, measured in the tens of thousands at the very most.

 

I half-expect that we'll find that it was part of a Cerberus back-up plan, the more legitimate Sanctuary.

 

If you look at the ARKCON patch, you can actually see it half of a modified Cerberus symbol. It'd be right up their alley too.

TIM knew about the Reapers decades before ME1. He certainly wasn't the only one.

[blahblahblah]

Except it's not double standards, if Bioware makes mistakes/error's in their writing they should be called out on it.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Its hard to argue to people that is full of double-standards.

Double standard: a situation in which two people, groups, etc., are treated very differently from each other in a way that is unfair to one of them. 

 

What is being discussed is not a double standard.

[AlleyD]

That's not how mass relays really work though. There are just two relays, pointed at each other. Between them is a mass free corridor of space. Meaning anything that enters the corridor also decreases their mass to near zero. But energy is conserved, so as the mass decreases, the speed of light in a vacuum exponentially increases. As mass approaches zero, the speed of light approaches infinity. Any momentum that the ship had upon entering the relay remains, and that is where the "acceleration" comes from. As force equals mass times acceleration, a given force from thrusters when applied to a negligible mass causes an enormous acceleration. Once the ship reaches the opposite side, the mass raises again and the velocity returns to normal.

So a ship couldn't "ride a mass effect wave" to reach another galaxy from overloading the relay network.

 

I may be confused,  but I think we are saying much the same thing; an entry relay increases the velocity of an object entering it and the exit relay cancels this effect out. 

 

Do you think that -, without the closing relay returning the mass of the object to normal -anything already traveling within the Mass Effect corridor may continue to inhabit the extreme velocities imposed on its entry into the corridor? I don't think that it is a stretch beyond the fuzzy logic of Mass Effect physics to think it is possible.

[SNascimento]

Well, you know, the Ark could very well be a corporate venture and have nothing to do with the Council or the military or the public arena. They could have worked on it on Noveria, or somewhere on Illium.

 

Maybe one or two of those filthy rich and powerful sons of guns actually took Shep seriously about the Reapers and prepared. If for nothing else than to save their company people and their resources, and probably themselves.

 

This could have started right after ME1 really. Pieces of Sovereign all over the place. The public may have been convinced that it was geth, but some of those companies with their scientists and research could very well see that it was not geth. Maybe they even looted some Reaper tech for themselves.

 

That would solve some of the problems, but then, should they be able to do that? We are talking about travelling to another galaxy. Should anyone in the Mass Effect universe be able to that for that matter? People often solve this problem by saying whoever built the ark found blueprints in Prothean ruins. But then... again?

[DarthSliver]

That would solve some of the problems, but then, should they be able to do that? We are talking about travelling to another galaxy. Should anyone in the Mass Effect universe be able to that for that matter? People often solve this problem by saying whoever built the ark found blueprints in Prothean ruins. But then... again?

 

Maybe the Ark is a Prothean built ship that has just been in a dark corner of the galaxy and all we had to do is repair it from erosion from just sitting around. Then they could also use that as an excuse to give us Protheans back because it could be another place with Prothean stasis pods. The ship being found in a Asteroid like the Protheans hid it from the Reapers in a hole of some kind, I am thinking Asteroids depicted in Star Wars for size measure lol.

 

I am thinking fixing a Ark Ship that we found is more feasible than building it, we all know the Reapers aren't good at completely wiping out the previous cycle Civilization.  

[Han Shot First]

There are plenty of ways Bioware can go the Ark Theory route without lore issues or problems with plausibility. I think some people are just being stubborn because they don't like the setting.