320 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Your logic is still beyond my comprehension. Why don't they just send these coordinates to every military vessel in the galaxy with note "Never go here or you can lead Reapers to us!"? You are taking this gotta-catch-this-Shepard mini-game too seriously, systems where it happens are already controlled by Reapers, Shepard doesn't summon them from Eternal Void.

 

I'm taking what the game shows us and working with the rough logic behind it.

 

Shepard traverses to all points throughout the galaxy, hitting many primary and secondary relays, and could feasibly travel to any others that are active in pursuit of resources or allies.  The Normandy is highly mobile and draws vast amounts of attention through its search methods. That's something that needs to be considered, especially when Shepard's the "tip of the spear" in this situation. Shepard scans, Reapers swarm.  If Shepard knows not to travel or scan in a specific area, then we've cut down on a major threat to an all-or-nothing civilization preservation project. 

 

To touch on another point: yes, I think certain prominent leaders of military organizations should be aware of the ark's location and make efforts to avoid and divert attention from the area, if it actually existed. Trickle down the information to subordinates as vague orders, all for the continuity of civilization.  If this is actually a crucial contingency method orchestrated by the governments and their subsequent militaries, treat it like one.  It's not the same as a super-weapon, since its entire purpose is to safely and secretly transport survivors to a safety zone. 

 

Why risk bumping into the wall and ruining everything?

[dreamgazer]

There are plenty of ways Bioware can go the Ark Theory route without lore issues or problems with plausibility. I think some people are just being stubborn because they don't like the setting. 

 

Others are raising valid questions that would strengthen the setting if reputably answered, though. Holes are holes. 

[Salfurium]

 

There are plenty of ways Bioware can go the Ark Theory route without lore issues or problems with plausibility. I think some people are just being stubborn because they don't like the setting. 

 

Agreed, for example the static charge buildup of FTL drives could be solved by the tech used on Hagalaz in the Shadow Broker Base, as it used lightning (also static charge) to power itself. Then some stasis for a few hundred years, while the geth or other AI/VI maintain the ships. They could even use the imprint tech from Okeer to only have to store embryos or fertilized eggs of each species and "raise" them on the fly. Most of the tech is there and if the protheans could power stasis pods for 50,000 years it doesn't sound impossible for the "current" races to power their tech for a fraction of that.

[Han Shot First]

 

 

 

Agreed, for example the static charge buildup of FTL drives could be solved by the tech used on Hagalaz in the Shadow Broker Base, as it used lightning (also static charge) to power itself. Then some stasis for a few hundred years, while the geth or other AI/VI maintain the ships. They could even use the imprint tech from Okeer to only have to store embryos or fertilized eggs of each species and "raise" them on the fly. Most of the tech is there and if the protheans could power stasis pods for 50,000 years it doesn't sound impossible for the "current" races to power their tech for a fraction of that.

 

 

As you said, all of the tech necessary to make it to Andromeda already exists in the lore in some fashion. The Reapers have a means of propulsion that doesn't require refueling. Cryosleep was used by the Protheans and the Manswell Expedition. Space stations like the Citadel have on board facilities that allow them to static discharge without entering a planet's atmosphere. 

 

There is no reason why all of that couldn't find its way onto an Ark.

[Vortex13]

Two of the biggest ways that I can see us getting a sizable population to Andromeda without suddenly developing a complete understanding of Reaper FTL capabilities, or finding a conveniently placed ark ship from a previous cycle would have to be:

 

 

1. An Ezo rich asteroid, similar in size to Omega with FTL engines strapped on the back of it. It's a very self sufficient Ark ship, it coms pre-supplied with it's own fuel, and as the element is mined out of the rock, you create more living space for the crew, plus the waste material would make for excellent engine discharge points as it it dumped off the rock. The only thing that would would be an issue would be food and air, but a hydroponics bay could solve both of those issues nicely.

 

This idea is far more practical to me than expecting the galaxy to come up a complete understanding of Reaper drive cores and building a one-of-kind intergalactic spaceship.

 

 

2. A Stellar Engine. Rather than trying to build a small vessel and trying to overcome all the logistical issues involved with making sure you have enough supplies and/or resources to make the trip, just bring said supplies and resources with you. Build some infrastructure around a brown dwarf star; one with a small planet or asteroid belt orbiting it; and let it carry you and surrounding system to your destination. This method would obviously take longer to arrive at Andromeda, but it would be the most self sufficient, nor would it require a cop out in the form of a conveniently placed wormhole provided by the Reapers Remanent.

 

I mean if we are assuming that the races of the galaxy will be able to develop a complete understanding of Reaper drive technology, or will have mastered the art of wormhole creation then the process of moving a (comparatively) small star system should be nothing.

[Salfurium]

Carrying a brown dwarf around sounds very difficult. It would require a massive mass effect field to even get it moving.

 

However I could imagine a mission at sub FTL speeds. It doesn't really matter whether the game takes place in 27xx or 5002186. Though storing something for a few million years is also very difficult.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Between the info we have about the setting of the next Mass Effect and the ARKCON thing being confirmed as part of ME:A, it seems a variation of some ark theory is very likely. 

I tend to dislike most of them, especially those in which the ark is developed in parallel to the crucible by the major forces of the galaxy as an contingency in case the Crucible fails. To keep the reasons short, I think it further cheapen the  reapers, which the incompetence seems beyond any comprehension, it cheapens Shepard who clearly didn't know about it, it hurt the original trilogy as you would be out of the loop in a major aspect of the war and at worst is just more prothean technology saving the day.

So that's why I'd like to ask you about alternatives to the ark theory. Or a variation of it that fix those problems I posted. Any ideas?

 

OK how about this:

 

Element Zero in the Milky Way is running dangerous low (due to it being used up and/or destroyed in the Reaper War) and soon will run out. Without Element Zero FTL drives won't work and Galactic Civilization will collapse and with only a few relays working (and/or repaired since the end of the Reaper War) searching the galaxy is next to impossible because of the lack of Element Zero. The recent discovery of a mysterious stable wormhole to the Andromeda galaxy is seen as a both a miracle and a threat so the Council sends an elite team through the wormhole for two reasons:

 

1) Find Element Zero and use whatever means to secure it either through barter or by force.

 

2) Find out who or what created the wormhole and determine if it's a threat or not, And if it's a threat wipe it out. 

[Ahriman]

I'm taking what the game shows us and working with the rough logic behind it.

 

Shepard traverses to all points throughout the galaxy

No, not even close. Possibility of Shepard stumbling upon Ark is close to zero. The only "uncharted" world Shepard had ever visited was Illos.

 

1. An Ezo rich asteroid, similar in size to Omega with FTL engines strapped on the back of it. It's a very self sufficient Ark ship, it coms pre-supplied with it's own fuel, and as the element is mined out of the rock, you create more living space for the crew, plus the waste material would make for excellent engine discharge points as it it dumped off the rock. The only thing that would would be an issue would be food and air, but a hydroponics bay could solve both of those issues nicely.

Discharge would still be the main issue. Bigger engines accumulate more charge. We are talking about 2.5 millions of light years, even if you drop 90% of "ship's" mass it shouldn't be enough. Diameter of Milky Way is 200 thousands of light years.

 

 

2. A Stellar Engine. Rather than trying to build a small vessel and trying to overcome all the logistical issues involved with making sure you have enough supplies and/or resources to make the trip, just bring said supplies and resources with you. Build some infrastructure around a brown dwarf star; one with a small planet or asteroid belt orbiting it; and let it carry you and surrounding system to your destination. This method would obviously take longer to arrive at Andromeda, but it would be the most self sufficient, nor would it require a cop out in the form of a conveniently placed wormhole provided by the Reapers Remanent.

Travel on sub-light speed will take forever and can be detected by Reapers. And how moving such tremendous mass is more plausible than understanding Reaper technology?

[Vortex13]

Carrying a brown dwarf around sounds very difficult. It would require a massive mass effect field to even get it moving.

 

However I could imagine a mission at sub FTL speeds. It doesn't really matter whether the game takes place in 27xx or 5002186. Though storing something for a few million years is also very difficult.

 

 

It wouldn't be easy, but the Turians have Mass Effect generators capable of holding an atmosphere to the surface of a moon. Just get a few of those, and use them to partially lower the mass of the star; the mechanics of the Stellar Engine itself will handle the rest.

 

You could accomplish the task without resorting to Mass Effect technology, it would just take a lot longer for the system to get up to speed. At least this way you could conceivably see the star reach near luminal speeds and have the survivors make it to Andromeda in a reasonable time frame.

[Salfurium]

OK how about this:

 

Element Zero in the Milky Way is running dangerous low (due to it being used up and/or destroyed in the Reaper War) and soon will run out. Without Element Zero FTL drives won't work and Galactic Civilization will collapse and with only a few relays working (and/or repaired since the end of the Reaper War) searching the galaxy is next to impossible because of the lack of Element Zero. The recent discovery of a mysterious stable wormhole to the Andromeda galaxy is seen as a both a miracle and a threat so the Council sends an elite team through the wormhole for two reasons:

 

1) Find Element Zero and use whatever means to secure it either through barter or by force.

 

2) Find out who or what created the wormhole and determine if it's a threat or not, And if it's a threat wipe it out. 

 

The mass relays are probably quickly repaired after control or synthesis endings. It would massively complicate Andromeda as we would have to deal with the choices made in ME3 (the genophage, geth/quarians/peace, the ending).

It would also be very unlikely that a wormhole would lead exactly to our largest neighboring galaxy and the wormhole opened in that tiny fraction of the MW that we can travel to.

 

A reason other than a reaper evacuation sounds cool though, however I can't imagine one without having to deal with ME3.

[SNascimento]

Let's ask another question here: what if we don't know how we got there? What if we have this civilization that seems so equal to the ones from the original trilogy but we don't know how we got to that point? And answering that question would be one of the parts of the main plot.

I believe the big problem here is avoiding answering the question most fans are asking. It would be a interesting marketing campaign that avoids that. 

[Salfurium]

It wouldn't be easy, but the Turians have Mass Effect generators capable of holding an atmosphere to the surface of a moon. Just get a few of those, and use them to partially lower the mass of the star; the mechanics of the Stellar Engine itself will handle the rest.

 

You could accomplish the task without resorting to Mass Effect technology, it would just take a lot longer for the system to get up to speed. At least this way you could conceivably see the star reach near luminal speeds and have the survivors make it to Andromeda in a reasonable time frame.

You can't attach engines to a gas cloud. An extremely hot one at that.

[Han Shot First]

 

 

The mass relays are probably quickly repaired after control or synthesis endings. It would massively complicate Andromeda as we would have to deal with the choices made in ME3 (the genophage, geth/quarians/peace, the ending).

It would also be very unlikely that a wormhole would lead exactly to our largest neighboring galaxy and the wormhole opened in that tiny fraction of the MW that we can travel to.

 

A reason other than a reaper evacuation sounds cool though, however I can't imagine one without having to deal with ME3.

 

 

I think the main issue with having an ark not be tied to the Reapers is explaining why every species is aboard. Short of the threat of imminent mass extinction, its hard to imagine the Council species bringing Krogan along for example.

[Vortex13]

You can't attach engines to a gas cloud. An extremely hot one at that.

 

 

You wouldn't have to. As per the wikipedia entry on Stellar Engines:

 

"Such an engine is a stellar propulsion system, consisting of an enormous mirror/light sail—actually a massive type of solar satellite large enough to classify as a megastructure, probably by an order of magnitude—which would balance gravitational attraction towards and radiation pressure away from the star. Since the radiation pressure of the star would now be asymmetrical, i.e. more radiation is being emitted in one direction as compared to another, the 'excess' radiation pressure acts as net thrust, accelerating the star in the direction of the hovering satellite. Such thrust and acceleration would be very slight, but such a system could be stable for millennia. Any planetary system attached to the star would be 'dragged' along by its parent star."

 

Granted, such a design probably wouldn't be the most effective method of crossing the intergalactic void, but it would be the most stable, and potentially self sufficient as you would be taking the entire solar system with you.

 

 

Well that and because I find the concept of using a star as your colony ship to be a heck of a lot cooler than a standard ark ship. 

[Salfurium]

*snip*

that's pretty cool, considering that the geth have massive solar sails and nearly completed their mega structure with them. But it would unfortunately still require star systems full of resources.

[Vortex13]

that's pretty cool, considering that the geth have massive solar sails and nearly completed their mega structure with them. But it would unfortunately still require star systems full of resources.

 

 

Well if the brown dwarf being used as the engine was surrounded by an ezo rich asteroid belt you would have your mass effect needs met. As for standard propulsion you could simply use material from the star itself and/or solar power. And if the system had a decent sized planet/planetoid orbiting it then you would have all of your living space needs accounted for as well. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

There will handwavium and phlebotinum involved in the project. When you find them, do not disturb them. Just accept them.

[Salfurium]

There will handwavium and phlebotinum involved in the project. When you find them, do not disturb them. Just accept them.

I'll rage quit if they forget the fan favorite plotholium.

[themikefest]

child: Is that how they got to Andromeda?

man: Yes, but the details has changed over time

child: Tell me another story about the trip

man: Its getting late, but, ok. One more story

[Ahriman]

child: Is that how they got to Andromeda?

man: Yes, but the details has changed over time

child: Tell me another story about the trip

man: Its getting late, but, ok. One more story

Speaking of fan trolling, it will be nice if we visit this planet in Andromeda.

Spoiler

[Salfurium]

 

Speaking of fan trolling, it will be nice if we visit this planet in Andromeda.

Spoiler

The Remnant are not a species but an individual:

Spoiler

Buzz Aldrin

 

[dreamgazer]

No, not even close. Possibility of Shepard stumbling upon Ark is close to zero. The only "uncharted" world Shepard had ever visited was Illos.

I'd appreciate it if you'd elaborate on the "close to zero" part, because we hit a wide array of relays spread across the entire galaxy, and the ark project will absolutely need to be within a convenient travel spread for the trafficking of materials and personnel. Something that the Shadow Broker is monitoring, as seen on Liara's terminal.

[Ahriman]

I'd appreciate it if you'd elaborate on the "close to zero" part, because we hit a wide array of relays spread across the entire galaxy, and the ark project will absolutely need to be within a convenient travel spread for the trafficking of materials and personnel. Something that the Shadow Broker is monitoring, as seen on Liara's terminal.

99% of unexplored galaxy, billions of star systems, relays forbidden to use without sanction of the Council (measure issued after Rachni wars)... You can monitor all known relays as much as you want, but nobody can track if every cargo ship unloads it's cargo on some new colony instead of jumping on FTL speed to some uncharted relay.

[Dantriges]

I think one of the more serious sci-fi authors wrote about a concept of using something called a fusion canlde, putting it inside a gas giant and use the giant as fuel. The habitats are on the orbiting moons.

[Drone223]

There are plenty of ways Bioware can go the Ark Theory route without lore issues or problems with plausibility.

Not really the explanation is most likely going to be good as the explanations for Lazarus project and synthesis, very contrived and poorly written.