36 réponses à ce sujet

[The-Oracle]

So I'm trying to get the best out of this game so what is the best party setup for someone with a dual dagger rogue character!

[PapaCharlie9]

Given that you can solo Nightmare as a DW Rogue, it kind of doesn't matter. But that said ...

Have at least one character that can Taunt and attract aggro. This is assuming you are going to go Stealth (you'd be crazy not to). While the enemy is focused on the tank, you sneak attack.

Have at least one mage to spam barrier.

Have at least one ranged attack character, to deal with pesky enemy archers and spellbinders when you are out of Stealth. The mage can double in this role.

 

Don't be afraid to throw Cole into the party for a little double DW action, particularly if you take Tempest or Artificer as your specialization. At about level 16ish with appropriate gear, a DW tempest IQ and Cole should be able to speedkill any boss as a duo. I should say, any non-DLC boss.
 

Personally, for my DW Tempest rogue IQ on Hard, I usually ran with Blackwall, Varric and Solas. I'd sometimes swap out Varric for Dorian, who I had built as a pyro/necro.

[The-Oracle]

So basically 2 rogues a Mage and a tank? I'm thinking of going Tempest as well.

[PapaCharlie9]

Or two mages and a tank. If you are running Nightmare, I'd lean towards two mages.

[The-Oracle]

Another question! I've heard black wall is the best tank, how does Iron Bull fare as a Tank?

[PapaCharlie9]

Another question! I've heard black wall is the best tank, how does Iron Bull fare as a Tank?

Terrible after Skyhold. Reaver is all about trading health for damage buffs. Not the best tank skill set. Also note that his head gear is an offensive weapon, not defensive armor.

 

Champion is best, Templar second best, unless you are doing a lot of demon fighting.

 

(BTW, I make a lot of edits, so make sure you look back at older posts -- I always forget stuff and hit post too soon).

[The-Oracle]

Thanks I'm probably going to run with Dorian or Solas at the Mage position.

[Cmpunker13]

Terrible after Skyhold. Reaver is all about trading health for damage buffs. Not the best tank skill set. Also note that his head gear is an offensive weapon, not defensive armor.

 

Champion is best, Templar second best, unless you are doing a lot of demon fighting.

 

(BTW, I make a lot of edits, so make sure you look back at older posts -- I always forget stuff and hit post too soon).

 

Sorry but I don't agree. Nightmare is so easy that your AI tank spec is irrelevant. Just put a S&S on Iron Bull, take all the mandatory talents (the S&S passives, shield bash and payback strike, war cry and challange) and you're ok, just don't touch Reaver.

Templar is also an useless spec on a AI tank, as it will never do the best (and only) thing the templar can do, Wrath of Heavens + Spell Purge, so it's better off skipping the spec entirely or focus on the passives after you take all the mandatory talents elsewhere.

Champion is better for the passives and Walking Fortress (sometimes misused by the AI), so if you want to min/max Blackwall is the obvious choice.

 

Going back IT, I'd say that having a mage, a ranged rogue and a tank in your party is a very good setup whatever your class is; only if the player is the tank I'd suggest to skip a warrior and go dual ranged rogues. Also Cole is better with a bow imo, as the AI is terribile at managing dual dagger rogues.

[PapaCharlie9]

Sorry but I don't agree. Nightmare is so easy that your AI tank spec is irrelevant. Just put a S&S on Iron Bull, take all the mandatory talents (the S&S passives, shield bash and payback strike, war cry and challange) and you're ok, just don't touch Reaver.
Templar is also an useless spec on a AI tank, as it will never do the best (and only) thing the templar can do, Wrath of Heavens + Spell Purge, so it's better off skipping the spec entirely or focus on the passives after you take all the mandatory talents elsewhere.
Champion is better for the passives and Walking Fortress (sometimes misused by the AI), so if you want to min/max Blackwall is the obvious choice.

So the only way to make Iron Bull be less squishy as a tank is to turn him into Cass, but without Templar skills. I don't disagree. I should have specified, "If you leave IB as a 2H Reaver, terrible."
 

Going back IT, I'd say that having a mage, a ranged rogue and a tank in your party is a very good setup whatever your class is; only if the player is the tank I'd suggest to skip a warrior and go dual ranged rogues. Also Cole is better with a bow imo, as the AI is terribile at managing dual dagger rogues.

If you run Cole on AI, I agree, archer is better.

[tcun44]

 

Templar is also an useless spec on a AI tank, as it will never do the best (and only) thing the templar can do, Wrath of Heavens + Spell Purge, so it's better off skipping the spec entirely or focus on the passives after you take all the mandatory talents elsewhere.

 

I've actually had a ton of success with Cass (except in JOH where she is awful) as my 2H tank. I set Charging Bull, WOH, and Purge to preferred- and she busts out WOH almost every encounter we have. At rifts- she sometimes cleans up an entire wave of demons before anyone else can do any damage. No argument that Champion is the better tank- but I like a 2HTemplar in the mid to late game.

[Forsythia77]

I just completed a game as a DW assassin.  Cassandra, Dorian and Sera/Varric were my preferred party.  But that is my personal preference. You could go Blackwall since he is a bit tankier than Cass.  But if you want Iron Bull to be your warrior you need to get him to generate some guard.  So in the beginning I spend all my points on anything in the Vanguard tree.  After Skyhold I make sure he has armor or a weapon that has guard on hit masterworks.  But as a 2H he still requires more micromanaging than I like.   I like Cass because she has some group buffs in her skill set, and frankly I don't like having Dour McSads (Blackwall) in my party because he always bickers with my go to mage, Dorian. 

[Cmpunker13]

I've actually had a ton of success with Cass (except in JOH where she is awful) as my 2H tank. I set Charging Bull, WOH, and Purge to preferred- and she busts out WOH almost every encounter we have. At rifts- she sometimes cleans up an entire wave of demons before anyone else can do any damage. No argument that Champion is the better tank- but I like a 2HTemplar in the mid to late game.

 

I'll try that... since AI tanks seem to use War Cry too randomly I guess try something else wouldn't hurt too much.

[capn233]

Cassandra is my tank something like 97% of the time and I don't usually feel like Champion would really be much of an improvement after it is available.  SnS and the other vanilla trees have enough to do the job, and There Is No Darkness isn't too bad either.

 

I don't know the specifics of how the AI picks the talents it uses, but it seems like the hurdle to templar wombo combo would probably be the fact that Cass likes to Spell Purge anything that might remotely need to be dispelled, including barriers.  I usually have Spell Purge set to disabled on her and can just trigger it when I want.

 

With FF on, I have WoH disabled as well unless everyone else is ranged.  In any case, it doesn't take long to switch to her and hit two buttons if wombo combos are the goal.

 

If we had decent tactics like in Origins (especially with the Advanced Tactics mod) it would be a slightly different story.

 

As far as the main topic of this thread goes, my favored party composition as DW was Cass, Dorian and Solas.  Cass to tank, Dorian mostly for Static Cage, and Solas for whatever support.

[ottffsse]

Make sure your mage (Dorian or solas) have ways to either panic / freeze or sleep your enemies for even easier pickings and shatters.

[Bigdawg13]

Not sure panic is ideal for a DW rogue.  I hate chasing people around.  But freeze, sleep, or stun is awesome!

[cdizzle2k3]

I usually had Vivienne (Knight Enchanter) in my party with my rouge. With Combat Clarity, Fade Shield,Veiled Riposte, and Ice Armor passives, she can jump right into the midst of any melee battle with the Spirit Blade and handle the tank role like a boss. Especially if you do Blizzard or Disruption Field.

[sjsharp2011]

So basically 2 rogues a Mage and a tank? I'm thinking of going Tempest as well.

 

Yeah take a ranged rogue either Sera or Varric, A warrior and a mage is usually the best makeup. Because as a DW rogue your kind of acting as a secondary warrior. It's your choice of course but that's the setup I generally used for my DW rogue durinjg my last run and it worked well for me.

[draken-heart]

Not sure panic is ideal for a DW rogue.  I hate chasing people around.  But freeze, sleep, or stun is awesome!

 

Not sure panic is useful for any character (except maybe necros, and even then not my much) unless the mage also has static cage, in which case, why even bother with panic?

[cdizzle2k3]

Not sure panic is useful for any character (except maybe necros, and even then not my much) unless the mage also has static cage, in which case, why even bother with panic?

Playing on hard and nightmare, sometimes I would use Horror in grouped together enemies just to break up some aggro if my players start to get swarmed. Definitely not an ideal trait for a rouge though, since DW rogues are more built to quickly get in and do high damage before they directly attack you. Ideal situations for DW rogues would be to flank an enemy that's not moving much from the rear(or one that's on the ground) while stealthed and get some major bonus damage and critical hits, it's counter-intuitive to have to chase someone down to hit them and risk missing and exposing yourself. 

[draken-heart]

Playing on hard and nightmare, sometimes I would use Horror in grouped together enemies just to break up some aggro if my players start to get swarmed. Definitely not an ideal trait for a rouge though, since DW rogues are more built to quickly get in and do high damage before they directly attack you. Ideal situations for DW rogues would be to flank an enemy that's not moving much from the rear(or one that's on the ground) while stealthed and get some major bonus damage and critical hits, it's counter-intuitive to have to chase someone down to hit them and risk missing and exposing yourself. 

 

Warrior would likely want the enemy hitting them (if the tank) or in a nice little grouping for Whirlwind or smashy-smash (If 2 handed). Mages would likely want the enemy close together as well, since most spells do not have zone-wide AOE. Over all, It sounds cool, but with alot of other, likely better forms of Crowd Control, Panic is probably not as good.

[Nathonaws]

Tank (Blackwall) / Support Mage / You / 2nd DPS (2nd mage, ranged rogue, or Iron Bull).

[Bigdawg13]

Strongly considering removing charging bull and combat roll from my warriors.  It moves the enemies around a bit too much, and flips them.  Sure I have flank attack to compensate, but it can be a real pain. 

[Inverse_Twilight]

When I play a Dual Wield Rogue, I use Sera as an archer, Dorian as a support/Fire Necromancer and Blackwall or Cass as a tank. I have a slight preference for Blackwall because his spec is built for tanking.

 

Strongly considering removing charging bull and combat roll from my warriors.  It moves the enemies around a bit too much, and flips them.  Sure I have flank attack to compensate, but it can be a real pain. 

I agree with removing Combat Roll but I really like putting Charging Bull on all my AI warriors. It helps them get into battle faster, knock down troublesome enemies and build more guard. Before the patch that fixed the AI, Charging Bull was terrible though.

 

That being said, I think you should go with whatever you are comfortable with. Party builds are all about personal preference.

[cdizzle2k3]

Warrior would likely want the enemy hitting them (if the tank) or in a nice little grouping for Whirlwind or smashy-smash (If 2 handed). Mages would likely want the enemy close together as well, since most spells do not have zone-wide AOE. Over all, It sounds cool, but with alot of other, likely better forms of Crowd Control, Panic is probably not as good.

All true. I definitely don't consider it the most useful move, and rarely use it. When I do actually look to use it though, is if I am getting overwhelmed by a mob and possibly need to buy myself a few seconds of distraction. Basically as a temporary bail-out type tactic so I can get resituated(and possibly get some free crits in during the process). 

[andy6915]

Not sure panic is ideal for a DW rogue.  I hate chasing people around.  But freeze, sleep, or stun is awesome!

 

Eh, it's fine for an archer. They don't need to chase their enemies, because running away from an archer rogue just makes you die tired. But of course, you did specify dual wielding. But still, I think pointing out that panic working well for archers is worth mentioning. But yes, it's awful for warriors or melee rogues.