108 réponses à ce sujet

[Robert Trevelyan]

Except the items and armor that CDPR releases is free whereas EA charges for it. Thats the major difference.

If Spoils of the Qunari was free, then I wouldnt mind because even though it should have been in the base game and even though it is 8 months later, at least EA gains goodwill and good PR by giving it too us for free, like they did with Black Emporium and the Extended Cut dlc for ME3.

 

 

Two points.

 

1) Yes, CD Projekt Red do give you some DLC for free. Not all.

 

They still charge for an Expansion Pass, for example.  

 

But yes, 2 free items of random game kipple, most weeks, since release. 

 

Some times it's a new mission. Sometimes it's just an alternate look for a character. Sometimes some other gear which would have been really useful early in the game. Not at the point I'd reached in game by the point it was released, but I fully admit that I've downloaded them all.

 

The difference here though is CDPR are pretty much the exception from the rule. They plan this drip-feed of free content while developing the game. So that they can make people feel like they're getting a little bonus something for free. It's planned day one, and released over a period after release.

 

That's not the same as Dragon Age Inquisition. It had no planned content releases, no planned DLC at release.

 

The objects you are so dogmatically trying to complain about did not exist at release. They wren't costed for. They weren't part of DAI. Months later somebody made them as a plausible addition.

 

Expecting something which costed man hours to a company AFTER release to be given to you for free, when it hasn't been budgeted for, means that Bioware and EA would have to take the hit of that cost (no matter the size). 

 

In CDPR's case that DLC was part of the original game's budget.

 

In Bioware/EA's case that DLC was not budgeted for as part of the original release. 

 

Do you see the difference? 

 

2) Whether you believe it should have been in the base game or not is irrelevant. 

 

It wasn't. It hadn't been designed. It hadn't been built. It hadn't been tested. It hadn't been certified. 

 

I might feel that more Sword schematics should have existed in the Base Game. But they don't. That doesn't mean if somebody designs and builds them for a later release that I should get that for free.

[Majestic Jazz]

Two points.

1) Yes, CD Projekt Red do give you some DLC for free. Not all.

They still charge for an Expansion Pass, for example.

But yes, 2 free items of random game kipple, most weeks, since release.

Some times it's a new mission. Sometimes it's just an alternate look for a character. Sometimes some other gear which would have been really useful early in the game. Not at the point I'd reached in game by the point it was released, but I fully admit that I've downloaded them all.

The difference here though is CDPR are pretty much the exception from the rule. They plan this drip-feed of free content while developing the game. So that they can make people feel like they're getting a little bonus something for free. It's planned day one, and released over a period after release.

That's not the same as Dragon Age Inquisition. It had no planned content releases, no planned DLC at release.

The objects you are so dogmatically trying to complain about did not exist at release. They wren't costed for. They weren't part of DAI. Months later somebody made them as a plausible addition.

Expecting something which costed man hours to a company AFTER release to be given to you for free, when it hasn't been budgeted for, means that Bioware and EA would have to take the hit of that cost (no matter the size).

In CDPR's case that DLC was part of the original game's budget.

In Bioware/EA's case that DLC was not budgeted for as part of the original release.

Do you see the difference?

2) Whether you believe it should have been in the base game or not is irrelevant.

It wasn't. It hadn't been designed. It hadn't been built. It hadn't been tested. It hadn't been certified.

I might feel that more Sword schematics should have existed in the Base Game. But they don't. That doesn't mean if somebody designs and builds them for a later release that I should get that for free.

Again, good points and I agree with the TW3 bit. However, what does this have to do with the Qunari being gimped from the very beginning in terms of armor.....and Bioware charging us for the needed Qunari armor 8 months later? They realize that people were upset about this so instead of making this free, they fix the problem by asking is to fill their wallets more. How does this explain EA releasing Jaws of Hakkon, an Avaar centric DLC and then later on releasing Spoils of the Avaar item pack for a fee after JoH released?

You mean to tell me that they did not have this Avaar items ready when JoH released? At least CDPR isnt doing this. I bet with the two TW3 expansions, CDPR will not release the story expansion, then a bit after release items that are related to the dlc and charge us for it. No, all new items such as armor and weapons and gwent cards will be included in the expansions.

[robertthebard]

Again, good points and I agree with the TW3 bit. However, what does this have to do with the Qunari being gimped from the very beginning in terms of armor.....and Bioware charging us for the needed Qunari armor 8 months later? They realize that people were upset about this so instead of making this free, they fix the problem by asking is to fill their wallets more. How does this explain EA releasing Jaws of Hakkon, an Avaar centric DLC and then later on releasing Spoils of the Avaar item pack for a fee after JoH released?

We've already read posts in this thread that give the lie to this claim: Qunari were not gimped by not having a specific cosmetic. You see, gimped has a very specific meaning in the gaming world, and "It didn't look the way I wanted it to, so it's gimp" isn't it. What this is, is a symptom of another trend in gaming: The consumer that knows they're out of line, but continues to insist that they get their way, so they don't have to buy something they desperately want. You'll see them in a lot of gaming forums. In MMO forums, they're the guys that want to be F2P, but want all the benefits of having a sub. I've seen this in two games so far, DDO and SWTOR. Both have "fans" that don't want to pay for anything, but think they deserve to have the benefits afforded to customers who do pay. Whether some of that is valid or not is largely irrelevant, considering they're wanting it all, not just some of it. You see, unlike what you're postulating about Spoils of the Avaar, there is nothing that has been released to date that actually ties directly to the Qunari, and, frankly, it wouldn't matter either way: the items are cosmetic. The only thing they do is modify the appearance of armor, or Skyhold. You don't get extra story content, other than maybe a few codex entries.

You mean to tell me that they did not have this Avaar items ready when JoH released? At least CDPR isnt doing this. I bet with the two TW3 expansions, CDPR will not release the story expansion, then a bit after release items that are related to the dlc and charge us for it. No, all new items such as armor and weapons and gwent cards will be included in the expansions.

If they had it bundled so that you couldn't finish the related expansion w/out these items, you may have a point. They didn't do that. Likely because they knew that would have been shady indeed, and that's a gross understatement. Instead, they released cosmetic items. Guess what, they are not required to play the Vanilla game, nor are they required to play the associated DLC, if any. They are cosmetic. All they do is provide new ways for one to look in game, not the only way to play the game.

[Robert Trevelyan]

Again, good points and I agree with the TW3 bit. However, what does this have to do with the Qunari being gimped from the very beginning in terms of armor.....and Bioware charging us for the needed Qunari armor 8 months later? They realize that people were upset about this so instead of making this free, they fix the problem by asking is to fill their wallets more. How does this explain EA releasing Jaws of Hakkon, an Avaar centric DLC and then later on releasing Spoils of the Avaar item pack for a fee after JoH released?

You mean to tell me that they did not have this Avaar items ready when JoH released? At least CDPR isnt doing this. I bet with the two TW3 expansions, CDPR will not release the story expansion, then a bit after release items that are related to the dlc and charge us for it. No, all new items such as armor and weapons and gwent cards will be included in the expansions.

 

1) "What does this have to do with the Qunari being gimped from the very beginning in terms of armor" - That's subjective. 

 

I mean, granted, there are no Qunari specific armours in the base game. That's a little frustrating. But that doesn't mean that Bioware had them just sitting around awaiting release at a later date.

 

That's not how projects work in game development. The Qunari were the Race which were added last of all. Only added once an extension to the project had been given. 

 

Given that a Qunari Inquisitor was not a follower of the Qun creating Qun styled armours would not have been a priority. It's not entirely implausible that some concept sketches were knocked up, but that doesn't mean that they were ever constructed, let alone constructed for use within the game.

 

The truth is that frequently on any game in development there are some things you just don't get time to do. The budget and time left to release sometimes mean that even if a studio wanted to make such things there simply isn't the time to start. Other things take priority. 

 

​2) The Avvar Pack? Sure, that's far more debatable. They possibly could have been included in Jaws of Hakkon. On paper that might sound logical. But again, tat said, there is also a release timetable for that too. Given Microsoft's deal for DLC first it may well be that they had to release on a given date, before these items were finished or ready.

 

You have to remember that it's not as simple as just 'bung 'em in a zip file and be done with it'. All DLC items still need thorough testing (and Inquisition is a huge game to even attempt testing items in all possible combinations) in-house first, followed by sending the content for certification testing at Sony & Microsoft. Time becomes a real factor then. If they weren't able to be absolutely sure of certain items or mounts before sending that DLC to Sony or Microsoft they'll have had to separate it from the rest of the DLC. 

 

We'll never know for sure. But that's still not not the same as expecting Qunari gear which had not been made at point of release to suddenly appear. 

 

3) The Witcher 3's two planed expansions (both story DLCs) are a totally different situation. We don't know what they'll contain. We don't know that there will or will not be further extra content attached to them. On past form I'd say it was unlikely from CDPR. But who knows.

 

It is a different situation, there. I don't think the two products do have that direct a grounds for comparison.

 

CDPR are far less like to offer extra armour or weapons in the way Bioware have in the past. In a Bioware game it's more plausible. You're playing a user created characters, and you're not just kitting yourself out you have a full group of Companions to consider too. There's more grounds for personalisation and customisation.

 

The Witcher doesn't really have that. At the end of the day you're still playing as Geralt. Give him a haircut or craft a new armour. But your still playing the same guy. Armour and weapon DLCs are far less useful. 

[The Baconer]

Except that, other than it being the same in that it's a cosmetic choice, it's really not, eh? What it is, is a case of "I don't like EA, so everything they do is shady", and while true in some cases, it's not really true in all of them. However, it's a lot easier to just say "EA is robbing us", whether it's accurate or not, isn't it?

 

Implications of "shadiness" and "robbery" do not concern me. Taking assets that are already in the game and then putting a price tag on them is scummy (like with Spoils of the Avvar and Mass Effect 3 weapon packs for singleplayer), but that is not the case here.

Of course, that does not change the fact that this is a product in the same vein as horse armor.

[robertthebard]

Implications of "shadiness" and "robbery" do not concern me. Taking assets that are already in the game and then putting a price tag on them is scummy (like with Spoils of the Avvar and Mass Effect 3 weapon packs for singleplayer), but that is not the case here. emphasis mine
Of course, that does not change the fact that this is a product in the same vein as horse armor.

The bolded part means that the arguments against it here are invalid then. They did not release, or, rather, won't be releasing items that were already in the game, and so, complaining about buying cosmetic DLC isn't about a legitimate beef, but about not wanting to pay for something they want. That's a whole other discussion.

[Robert Trevelyan]

The bolded part means that the arguments against it here are invalid then. They did not release, or, rather, won't be releasing items that were already in the game, and so, complaining about buying cosmetic DLC isn't about a legitimate beef, but about not wanting to pay for something they want. That's a whole other discussion.

 

 

Agreed. 

 

The concept of DLC in and of itself is not evil. We're not talking about charging for recycled content here. This was *new* stuff. 

[prosthetic soul]

Agreed. 

 

The concept of DLC in and of itself is not evil. We're not talking about charging for recycled content here. This was *new* stuff. 

I Sincerely doubt that.  Considering the Qunari armor was present in multiplayer for the past few months. 

[Robert Trevelyan]

I Sincerely doubt that.  Considering the Qunari armor was present in multiplayer for the past few months. 

 

 

Where in multiplayer (given that multiplayer has been programmed by a different team)?

 

The screenshots I saw certainly were not just the Katari's armour added to single player mode.