... Beta however... hahahahahaha. Guinea pigs. Lemmings really, thrown off a cliff.
I'll say this, there were players that thought Beta Perilous was impossible until it was done (by me and wavebend + others). There were also players that thought HB would be doable with no team coordination and their bad builds. They didn't succeed. They needed to L2P to succeed. ....
Tsk tsk, cannot talk about beta. What is gone is gone.
Hey, hey, my team was the first non-dev that beat HB, not yours
You didn't even beat the HB bosses without me. Fighting the dragon barely even counts.
You didn't even beat the HB bosses without me. Fighting the dragon barely even counts.
Wtf?
I beat HB wayy before I teamed up with you. Twice. I even have the videos to prove it. I even sent PMs to Luke about it. Uploaded date on Youtube doesn't lie. You will, probably, though.
June 24, 5:38PM EST
June 26, 7:43 PM EST
When I teamed up with you:
June 30, 5:00 AM EST
I beat HB wayy before I teamed up with you. Twice. I even have the videos to prove it. I even sent PMs to Luke about it. Uploaded date on Youtube doesn't lie. You will, probably, though.
If so I didn't pay attention, because you did really terrible before I sent you new builds, insisting on all AW's and then all mages (and w/o firewall or firestorm) at first.
If so I didn't pay attention, because you did really terrible before I sent you new builds, insisting on all AW's and then all mages (and w/o firewall or firestorm) at first.
You didn't send me any build. I came up with my own compositions out of trial and error and tens of hours of testing on wave 5 + JayWee's help ofc. You didn't play HB on wave 5 until the last week of beta. The only real help was your suggestion of using TTD on the lego. That's all.
You didn't send me any build. I came up with my own compositions out of trial and error
LOL. You would've been using that sb / froststep build forever had I not sat down and convinced you the superiority of non SB builds. What disappointed me was that you continued to use it even after admitting the SC Pota FC SF combo was better for teams, despite trying it out for yourself. I understood why when there were no other players online, but even after others joined... that build is still bad.
HB didn't go smoothly until I took control of the match completely, optimizing build synergy, how conditions work, terrain, equipment and positioning of everyone. You had to be taught about how the builds worked prior to the match, but you have conveniently forgot this fact.
You had a vastly incomplete understanding of what conditions worked when and where previously, let alone abilities.
LOL WB you were failboating for 2-3 weeks. I didn't come into HB with you until the end because of lack of players (and desire) to play it after I already knew what to do on day two. I told you about all this stuff, and you assimilated it, but not until almost a month had passed.
This is becoming interesting.
LOL. You would've been using that sb / froststep build forever had I not sat down and convinced you the superiority of non SB builds. What disappointed me was that you continued to use it even after admitting the SC Pota FC SF combo was better for teams, despite trying it out for yourself. I understood why when there were no other players online, but even after others joined... that build is still bad.
You never convinced me of the superiority of non SB builds UNTIL I decided to use switch over because of the SB nerf from 300% to 150%. "that build is still bad" of course it's disgustingly bad now with the nerf. Just lol.
HB didn't go smoothly until I took control of the match completely, optimizing build synergy, how conditions work, terrain, equipment and positioning of everyone.
Geez. More like spamming "Move out of line of sight" over and over when I wasn't even in Line of Sight. Doesn't that remind you of anything? 
You had a vastly incomplete understanding of what conditions worked when and where previously, let alone abilities.
Except I was the one correcting you when I told you Venatori Mages were immune to sleep (because you apparently didn't know that). I didn't do extensive testing of TTD, although I did test it once, after many complaints on how the casting time was too high (I did warn you about it) and now you're willing to use that as a reason of me having a vastly incomplete understanding of abilities. What the hell.
LOL WB you were failboating for 2-3 weeks. I didn't come into HB with you until the end because of lack of players (and desire) to play it after I already knew what to do on day two. I told you about all this stuff, and you assimilated it, but not until almost a month had passed.
You didn't tell me anything. Stop ****** making up things. Jesus Christ. I have a very high lying tolerance, but this is going over it
You didn't tell me anything. Stop ****** making up things. Jesus Christ. I have a very high lying tolerance, but this is going over it
Yeah, you forgot everything I told you came from me. The SB nerfs only clinched yet, but you still wanted to use SB AND FS builds. You wanted to let the other Lego use his terrible Lego build too.
I taught you combat mechanics, and you conveniently forget I was the one that taught you.
Also, Mages not sleeping is irrelevant given the fact that they're vulnerable to Panic, Knockdown, Paralyze and Slow -- all of which I told you to do and you disregarded.
Here's what happened:
Last Beta
Day 1)
Me: Hey wavebend, use my builds
WB: Nah man, I wanna use FS AW
Wipe.
Day 1+
Me: Hey wavebend the destruction field build works awesome. You should try it
WB: Nah. Maybe later
Day X+
WB: Hey DF Keeper works great
Me: Well Duh. I told you that on day one.
Me: These guys are also vulnerable to zyx conditions at T times.
WB: No way. You sure?
Me: Explains conditions and when they occur
Week 3-4:
WB: Let's play HB
Me: Ok let's coordinate. You guys need to use ABCD.
WB: Uh. No, we'll use what we've been using before.
Me: No, you really need to use these builds and map with ABCD
Some more talking, hears someone say they're talking of respec
Me: Readies up before noticing / confirming Lego + others have respecced
Group wipes hard. Lego down fast.
Me: Ok guys. You need to do ABCD. I mean it.
Lego: Fine. Respec.
Others: Respec
Game starts:
Me: Let's fight here here and here.
Gameplay: A few hitches, occur, but otherwise easymode victory, becoming easier overcoming each obstacle AFTER I told everyone what to do.
Present:
WB: I am WB and I came up with everything myself. Drasca didn't tell me anything or explain anything to me whatsoever.
Me: BS
Hahahaha. I can't believe the effort you put into writing such a big pile of BS.
Yeah, you forgot everything I told you came from me. The SB nerfs only clinched yet, but you still wanted to use SB AND FS builds.
Because they were objectively better at the time. You tried to use your politician math skills to justify how FC + GS was better than SB @ 300% + FC w/o CL. Then you tried to thunderdome me even while you had 50+ in each stat in comparison to what I had.
I taught you combat mechanics, and you conveniently forget I was the one that taught you.
You taught me the damage formula and combo mechanics. I didn't forget that, but I don't see how it's relevant here.
Also, Mages not sleeping is irrelevant given the fact that they're vulnerable to Panic, Knockdown, Paralyze and Slow -- all of which I told you to do and you disregarded.
I kept telling you that Mages were immune to Sleep and vulnerable to Panic. When you faced the truth (that they were immune to Sleep) you immediately decided to shout "Oh see how they're vulnerable to Panic"? Yeah, they're vulnerable to Panic and not to sleep. lol.
Last Beta
Day 1)
Me: Hey wavebend, use my buildsWB: Nah man, I wanna use FS AW
Wipe
Lol @ blaming the wipe on me.
Day 1+
Me: Hey wavebend the destruction field build works awesome. You should try it
WB: Nah. Maybe later
You never said that. Ever.
Day X+
WB: Hey DF Keeper works great
Me: Well Duh. I told you that on day one.
You did say "told you on day one" in that context, except... you didn't tell me on day one. Actually, let me be clear. I don't recall (and I claim to have a good memory) that you ever told me about your "destruction field" keeper until today.
Me: These guys are also vulnerable to zyx conditions at T times.
WB: No way. You sure?
Me: Explains conditions and when they occur
Right, but I'm not sure if the info you told me was new at the time.
Week 3-4:
WB: Let's play HB
Me: Ok let's coordinate. You guys need to use ABCD.
WB: Uh. No, we'll use what we've been using before.
Me: No, you really need to use these builds and map with ABCD
Why do you think I acted like I knew a bit better? Maybe because prior to that conversation you had never even tried HB on wave 5?
Me: Ok guys. You need to do ABCD. I mean it.
Lego: Fine. Respec.
Others: Respec
Game starts:
Me: Let's fight here here and here.
Gameplay: A few hitches, occur, but otherwise easymode victory, becoming easier overcoming each obstacle AFTER I told everyone what to do.
That's simply not true. The only one who respeced was the Lego with TTD because you kept spamming "Get TTD" on mic and it got quite irritating I must say. These guys had never played wave 5 on HB either.
Present:
WB: I came up with everything myself
I found along with JayWee two very reliable team compositions for HB and your lego with TTD is the third one on the list. I suggest you learn to read because the quote above is BS and I was replying specifically to this: "I told you about all this stuff, and you assimilated it, but not until almost a month had passed."
Hey Drasca and WB, this discussion of yours isn't much constructive. Although I admit that there is some useful information, you two are mostly aguing about who is worst, so could please either restrict yourselves to the useful information or go PM each other like daima suggested?
Thank you very much.
Well, you're free to make the suggestion and try to find a way to implement it. PM Luke about it. I have nothing else to say
I don't think it would be a good idea to push my unprofessional opinion. I'm free to express it as is anyone else on these forums but pushing it is not appropriate. IMO, let professionals deal with design. You don't come to a doctor with your own diagnosis and treatment and neither you come to a game designed with some rightful perfect concept of your own. Well, unless you are investor and boss at the same time. Only experience, quality control, and intuition can try to predict what is going to happen and even most sophisticated predictions frequently fail. But anyone can tell what they like and what they want so it might be better to stick to just that.
Because they were objectively better at the time.
They weren't even then. Not exp wise, not time wise, not team-play wise and of course those are the things I value. Solo is the only time FS/SB is better, and solo play is not valued in a team environment.
You taught me the damage formula and combo mechanics. I didn't forget that, but I don't see how it's relevant here.
Combat mechanics including how conditions work and how they play into builds. The conditional weaknesses and combinations are what enabled HB to be won. I've tried to be as mum as I could out of respect for your request to leave the winning team builds out of it, but it is really difficult to do so when you declare how little you put the pieces together.
You never said that. Ever.
No, you never paid attention and you refused to change builds at day one because you got used to solo-ing. I always brag about my builds all the time. You filter anything that isn't out of your own head out and you like to ignore others until you've failed on your own. You don't like to use other people's builds, especially ones you haven't tried (or only tried for 10 minutes without learning them).
I dismiss other builds, but because I've actually used their abilities and playstyles extensively previously. There are sometimes changes that occur that I don't know about, as I'm not the one patching the game, and I'm willing to listen to the changes, but it isn't like I haven't tried all the abilities seriously.
I don't recall (and I claim to have a good memory) that you ever told me about your "destruction field" keeper until today
Selective memory to make yourself look good and / or you choose to never remember to begin with.
Why do you think I acted like I knew a bit better? Maybe because prior to that conversation you had never even tried HB on wave 5?
I know and knew all the enemies way more than you do, from their animation cycles, to all the effects and conditions they can perform, and how they interact. I know both player build and enemy unit strengths and weaknesses. It is no idle boast.
I didn't need to go to wave 5 personally to predict exactly what would happen. It is like me knowing fire is hot and I don't need to put my hand inside to prove I'll get burned.
I don't care if you or others get irritated from me telling you what to do. I don't want players around that can't take informed advice, which is why I didn't want to play with you during HB beta. Losing around noobs that refuse to communicate and coordinate is way worse than finding out someone is irritated. Successful teams are made of players that can assimulate communication and feedback, and I don't want players around that can't and refuse to handle communicated feedback.
I found along with JayWee two very reliable team compositions for HB
If you didn't post about it publicly or communicate to me, how do you expect me to know that? Granted, I didn't follow every post, but HB victory deserves its own thread which makes it likely that I've seen it.
Hey Drasca and WB, this discussion of yours isn't much constructive. Although I admit that there is some useful information, you two are mostly aguing about who is worst, so could please either restrict yourselves to the useful information or go PM each other like daima suggested?
Thank you very much.
^ this
Oh god, make love by private message plz.
We're able to complete Heartbreaker with 30/30/30 promotions all-around. Just learn how to teamplay and learn how to use CC. There's a reason why I've spent tens of hours making a guide on this
Would you be so kind to provide me a link?
This was fun while it lasted.
Not worth the read. Just Drasca claiming Wavebend sucked until he did exactly what Drasca told him to.
Modifié par Proto, 13 juillet 2015 - 04:16 .
Oh god, make love by private message plz.
So... We measuring flaccid or erect?
just wake me when it's over, k?
They weren't even then. Not exp wise, not time wise, not team-play wise and of course those are the things I value. Solo is the only time FS/SB is better, and solo play is not valued in a team environment.
You don't like to use other people's builds, especially ones you haven't tried (or only tried for 10 minutes without learning them).
Which is why I admitted your build was better in a coordinated team. However, the SB variant was by far more useful for survivability, and that is what mattered to me in P7 beta when no one was around to play and/or pugging and/or speedrunning and not having to keep track of LoS at all times.
I tested your build for more than 2 hours and gave you my opinion. I am open-minded and like to test new builds as long as the abilities have good synergy and there is a good reason given the enemy conditions / weaknesses / vulnerability to status effects. I tested about 20+ team variations for HB with a variety of builds, some of which were concocted by other players as well (oh really?).
I've tried to be as mum as I could out of respect for your request to leave the winning team builds out of it, but it is really difficult to do so when you declare how little you put the pieces together.
Selective memory to make yourself look good and / or you choose to never remember to begin with.
You claim to have led the team to victory, to have concocted the builds that were used by each team member during that run, that you taught me everything in the game, that none of my findings were authentic, that you provided all the "info" on day one and that somehow my success was attributed to assimilating all of that "info" which I've never even heard of. I don't have a way to disprove that this "info" was given to me on day one, unless I can ask for a complete Origin chat log via tech support, which I would do in a heartbeat, if not for the fact that they'd undoubtedly keep this info for themselves.
You accuse me of having a selective memory, yet YOU chose to ignore everything that would discredit your success.
I provided my findings on Disruption Field, on how it blocked the "shooting" glyph attacks and the "spawning" glyph attacks if used on top of the Mages themselves. I provided reliable combos such as Disruption Field + PotA. I can understand that you probably knew about those before, but never did you inform me. I was the one who had to test over and over in order to find what worked and what didn't.
Prior to the run we did together, I decided to let you know about the winning team comps. I told you the reasons why I wasn't running the upgraded version of FC on my keeper, to which you replied "Your build sucks" without basis.
During the run, I had to lead Oblivion and Reznore via chat because they had muted you for being bossy + irritating. The ONLY reason why we won was due to a bug where if the VC was killed first (via TTD) it would stop all respawns, and certainly not due to coordination or your "leadership".
"I've tried to be as mum as I could out of respect for your request to leave the winning team builds out of it."
Because you decided to brag about it on Raidcall? Because you decided to spoil the critical details on how to beat HB reliably like you had the right for it?
If you didn't post about it publicly or communicate to me, how do you expect me to know that? Granted, I didn't follow every post, but HB victory deserves its own thread which makes it likely that I've seen it.
Both pictures were posted in the Heartbreaker feedback thread created by Luke. There was a thread for that and I didn't feel like creating a new one.
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