36 réponses à ce sujet

[Ricksmiley]

How come cunning is most important? Would think constitution would be a big one.

[ottffsse]

After doing a few rounds: as long as someone is playing a good virtuoso you should be very fine with two high dps classes and one cc to kill things fast enough and control troublesome targets. Most of the time a keeper can take the virtusos place except demons as you can't ladder camp really and wave 4 demons is just brutal.

AWs are safe to play and get the job done but very time inefficiently.

[Courtnehh]

Translation Pork is a doesn't know how to CS on FC NM. CS went from pretty awesome (before everyone got great gear and easy defenses in Perilous) to trashy as tanking became less useful (when burst DPS killed everything, and CS's functionality changed), back to awesome again as NM high health and enemy count + guard buffs make tanking useful again.

 
^ This. I don't know if the cooldown actually got reduced yet though. The taunt cd's were supposed to be reduced last week but weren't implemented.

Yeah Luke pushed it a couple of days ago, he was probably just about to do it but I sent him a reminder just incase XD There's just that bug with the cool down amulet at the moment with it. CD amulet doesn't change any cool downs on the tooltip and when I timed it in game with the CD on the cool down was still 45 seconds.

[Pork]

I always liked CS but haven't used it in a while. I don't play lego much. The times recently I have played with other players that had it, I always appreciated the huge range mega taunt it does and it always seemed to make the run go more smoothly. I unno, I was just curious what Pork's reasoning for saying that was because I see plenty of success from it mostly on FC zone 3 and 4.

 

Because it can be replaced by better skills. To the Death is a staple for a lego on NM, as is shield bash since guard is actually tough to break now. So youre left with two skill. Payback strike is fairly mandatory since you can be stunned/knocked down by a lots more things on NM (Fear Demons, Terrors, Knights, Despair demons, pride demons, behemoths, shield bearers, runes etc), so youre left with one skill. What do you choose? A skill which gives 100% guard, which will have dissipated in seconds because of the massive taunt that goes with it which now has a 45 second cooldown? Or something like unbowed, which functions similarly to payback strike, but grants a good amount of guard, while also getting a passive which grants a bonus 25% to total guard aswell, or you can take walking fortress, which gives you total invulnerability and generates guard while also lowering all your cooldowns (also has a passive next to it which grants another 25% bonus to guard)

 

Basically, Counterstrike is worthless in nightmare. Its not worth it when compared to other more useful skills that the lego has. I say this as someone who has completed probably over 80 NM runs in coordinated teams with speed in mind. If you want to slow the team down, then take CS, otherwise, take a better skill.

 

Tanking is overshadowed by DPS in NM. If you want to spend 30+ minutes in a NM game, bring a tank, otherwise, bring another Reaver or a crowd controller so the DPS can kill things faster and safer.

[BraveLToaster]

How come cunning is most important? Would think constitution would be a big one.

A number of classes have lynchpin passives that revolve around getting critical hits, and the rest of them just appreciate the huge damage bonus.  Ranged defense is always nice since it can be trickier to avoid than melee damage in a lot of situations.

[Courtnehh]

Because it can be replaced by better skills. To the Death is a staple for a lego on NM, as is shield bash since guard is actually tough to break now. So youre left with two skill. Payback strike is fairly mandatory since you can be stunned/knocked down by a lots more things on NM (Fear Demons, Terrors, Knights, Despair demons, pride demons, behemoths, shield bearers, runes etc), so youre left with one skill. What do you choose? A skill which gives 100% guard, which will have dissipated in seconds because of the massive taunt that goes with it which now has a 45 second cooldown? Or something like unbowed, which functions similarly to payback strike, but grants a good amount of guard, while also getting a passive which grants a bonus 25% to total guard aswell, or you can take walking fortress, which gives you total invulnerability and generates guard while also lowering all your cooldowns (also has a passive next to it which grants another 25% bonus to guard)

Basically, Counterstrike is worthless in nightmare. Its not worth it when compared to other more useful skills that the lego has. I say this as someone who has completed probably over 80 NM runs in coordinated teams with speed in mind. If you want to slow the team down, then take CS, otherwise, take a better skill.

Tanking is overshadowed by DPS in NM. If you want to spend 30+ minutes in a NM game, bring a tank, otherwise, bring another Reaver or a crowd controller so the DPS can kill things faster and safer.

Yeah but receiving damage makes your cool down go quicker for walking fortress from what I've noticed so the more things hitting you the more I can spam that. Taking all the agro means that you can bring in more DPS classes with less need for CC, my tanking is the CC My games don't take 30 minutes, I love the skill it works really nicely.

[nibyl]

Basically, Counterstrike is worthless in nightmare. Its not worth it when compared to other more useful skills that the lego has. I say this as someone who has completed probably over 80 NM runs in coordinated teams with speed in mind. If you want to slow the team down, then take CS, otherwise, take a better skill.

 

That's just it, CS might be worthless in a well organized team but not everyone plays with such teams. The area taunt makes life a lot easier for teams who, for example, don't have mics. I believe this has been discussed to the death (har har) before.

[I MajorAssman I]

May not be "important" but it sure as hell makes it easier.

[TeamLexana]

The best lego's I have seen in nightmare have counterstrike and to the death. I haven't played mine in months to speak for what I personally like the best but I have seen counterstrike lego's do good work in nightmare.

I remember trying counterstrike long time ago and not liking it because of the cooldown, especially since I didn't have like any cunning at the time to make flow of battle do work for me, lol. Also, back when I tried it, the enemies used to stay sectioned off in each of their rooms better and counterstrike would have a nasty habit of pulling the entire map down on everyone's heads! Opps, lol. That kinda happens now anyways, so it's definitely worth a look again.

[Texasmotiv]

'Worthless' sounds a little extreme. It does have merit in its own right but can understand why you chose not to take it.

[Drasca]

That's just it, CS might be worthless in a well organized team but not everyone plays with such teams. The area taunt makes life a lot easier for teams who, for example, don't have mics. I believe this has been discussed to the death (har har) before.

 

Just the opposite, CS is best in an organized team. Pork doesn't know what organized really is. Everyone posting here recognizes its value except him.

 

Yeah but receiving damage makes your cool down go quicker for walking fortress from what I've noticed so the more things hitting you the more I can spam that. Taking all the agro means that you can bring in more DPS classes with less need for CC, my tanking is the CC My games don't take 30 minutes, I love the skill it works really nicely.

 

Exactly this. Having almost two dozen enemies strike you every few seconds makes the cooldown go really fast, especially when half of them are Horrors with homing spikes.

 

I'm just invincible all the time. My guard stays full too, only barely going down momentarily before it is back up again. My friends are only slightly less invincible, but generally don't go down.

 

CS --> WF --> SB spam + TTD the highest health enemy around. SW AC everything else in between. Stuff dies between trying to aggro me, and allies being completely free to DPS enemies that've been LoS'ed, and taunted off them targetting me instead.

 

Same thing happens when even newbie ally with 5% base critical chance and all of two promotions comes to play his Lego too. I'm sure he has more promotions by now, but I pulled him into NM, trained him and I'm fairly certain he can pug NM on his own now with that Lego. If he can do it, if wavebend can do it, and everyone else in this thread that use CS say they can do it, I'm pretty sure everyone has the potential to do it.

 

 

How come cunning is most important? Would think constitution would be a big one.

 

Constitution is still a big deal once you have enough of it. I wouldn't necessarily say its that important, because all the promotions are extremely gradual increments of power. Don't worry about 'focusing' on one unless you have at least 50 of one and are 30-40 behind in the others. Then you might want to catch up.

[Pork]

Just the opposite, CS is best in an organized team. Pork doesn't know what organized really is. Everyone posting here recognizes its value except him.

 

And yet I am the one who is clearing NM in 8 minutes pre spawn fix. Our fastest run post spawn fix was today, clocking in at 13 minutes. Pretty sure I know what organised is.