59 réponses à ce sujet

[Saigeo]

So far this last week and weekend has shown us what a great game this had the potential of being. I won't lie, it's been the most fun I've had here since February when things started getting old.

Promotions are always going to remain an issue that is not resolvable, and a requirement for playing higher levels. People who play this casually will never have the basis to play the higher levels no matter how talented they are, causing a rift among the community as to who is willing to play with whom.

Constant rules changes are an issue. The community should never be a testing ground. We want the finished product. Constant drastic character changes (nerfs, buffs) are irritating to say the least. We spend a lot of time figuring out what works and what doesn't, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Instead we end up with the character of the week, which right now appears to be the reaver. These lobbies should be short and fun, not long and tedious.

Right now there seems to a new bunch of bugs, yet minor in comparison to what we've faced. Admittedly, due to the fun this game is at the moment they are not glaring, however these need to be prioritized repairs before anything else happens.

Glitches that alter outcomes are frustrating to the community who wants to play and win within the rules we are handed, rather than cheat our way to the top. There are small ones and large ones. The hunter glitch doesn't seem major, however people who psychologically cannot handle not having the highest score have exploited this one to no end. Before the weekend challenge I was in a perilous lobby where all players went from 1 to 18 in one game. We paid closer attention during the next game where the same thing happened and noticed some were getting double kills, possibly associated with the new bow. At this point it didn't feel right, and it didn't happen in the new lobby we generated so it was apparent that there was something here that certain individuals would seek out for advancement. Using any of these methods is cheating, plain and simple, and ruins the game for those of us who want to advance fairly.

Finally, and this needs to be mentioned, those people who put in the most time into this game have become the ones who have been most short changed. There was a lot of effort put in by certain people, to figure things out, to increase stats, etc... and then Bioware comes along and starts changing the gameplay so all this work has become meaningless. As I said, we should never be the test bed for a game.

Other than that, I must commend the hard work on the part of the developers to take something essentially broken and turn it into a wonderful product.

[Medallian]

I dont think we were a test bed but I think that balance changes need to happen to balance things out for added difficulties, I don't think the way the characters were would float with how things are now, it would cause a massive unfair rift between casual and mega grinders such as myself. I can see now that every thing was done to, make the new stuff balance, and i welcome the change for one. 

[Yanius]

Yea, since i'm playing i really like only 2 weekendchallanges, this one and april 1st one, i found those really fun, too bad this one got spoiled by players who can't play it without cheating, but i think i was really good job on this week challange. Never fought so many revenents, with nightmare difficulty its very fun.  And that extra exp could help ppl to get stat to do paralious , but again some greedy ppl spoild that too, cuz promoting from lvl 1 to lvl 20 with one game, ruins the game. you don't even putting any skills, what kind of fun is it?

[Shredboy]

Most of the creators and guys that figured things out are long gone..... was a fun game and bridged a gap to something I can't even put my finger on. Not a ground breaking game, but a pretty good damn community. . Coming from xboxone.

[Thadrial]

Yea, since i'm playing i really like only 2 weekendchallanges, this one and april 1st one, i found those really fun, too bad this one got spoiled by players who can't play it without cheating, but i think i was really good job on this week challange. Never fought so many revenents, with nightmare difficulty its very fun.  And that extra exp could help ppl to get stat to do paralious , but again some greedy ppl spoild that too, cuz promoting from lvl 1 to lvl 20 with one game, ruins the game. you don't even putting any skills, what kind of fun is it?

I was playing this game at the start and they could leave double xp on for a month and it wouldn't make up for all the experience and gold and time i've lost from the game freezing and multiple bugs. I wouldn't still be playing the game if it wasn't fun but I don't mind this glitch lobby every now and again. Bioware has never offered reparations for the exp and gold lost so they have no right to frown on some people enjoying the only *good* glitch we have ever had. Who cares about the leaderboards and their e-peen?

[Saigeo]

Thadrial -

Whatever Bioware has or hasn't done doesn't justify cheating. The game was a real mess for long stretches, yet people still saw the fun in it and stayed and learned to beat it. Now Bioware just handed us a double ExP weekend. Is that not enough in itself?

You're sore about lost time, but then why should a "select few" exploit something essentially ripping off the rest of the community instead of the game developers? It's been only certain lobbies that have glitched apparently for the duration of those lobbies.

Would you want to play poker with someone who has extra aces up his sleeve because he feels ripped off by the dealer for having lost the last 20 games?

Bottom line - it's a game and we're expected to play within the rules and make it fair for everybody. Whether you care or don't care about the leaderboard is irrelevant. It is also part of the game.

[Drasca]

 a requirement for playing higher levels. People who play this casually will never have the basis to play the higher levels no matter how talented they are, causing a rift among the community as to who is willing to play with whom.

 

Requirement no. Players can and have beaten with low promotions.  I personally have invited and upgraded players from lower difficulties to higher ones, sometimes without their notice, and often train them to specifically do so.

 

Disclosure: I know the game way too well, and have lots of promotions & gear as well. People either love or hate me. Hate me because I succeed, and jealous haters claim it is all due to promotions only rather admit how inadequate they are and need to change how they play when they don't succeed. People love me when they actually learn to play and succeed by improving their own gameplay using the builds and mechanics I explain and often tell them to do.

 

People playing like people and behaving terribly toward each other is outside my control though.

 

Casual players don't tend to be talented because they haven't invested the time or interest to be better. The highest difficulties actually require effort, which is something casuals inherently don't want to do. There is a middlecore somewhere, but it is far closer to hardcore than than casual in terms of effort and interest.

 

 

Constant rules changes are an issue. The community should never be a testing ground.

 

Games change, and often for the better. This is a fact of life and not limited to this game by any means. The devs do have a testing ground for volunteers (cough cough lemmings) called Beta. Feel free to sign up. They do good work sacrificing their time on untested material finding and stomping out issues. Of course there is no magic to it, just hard work, and limitations to how much can be done within a certain time frame.

[Pork]

Disclosure: I know the game way too well, and have lots of promotions & gear as well. People either love or hate me. Hate me because I succeed, and jealous haters claim it is all due to promotions only rather admit how inadequate they are and need to change how they play when they don't succeed. People love me when they actually learn to play and succeed by improving their own gameplay using the builds and mechanics I explain and often tell them to do.

.

I play with some people on the leaderboards who have around the same promotions as you. They all tell me that its the promotions that make them succeed, simple as that.

Also, i dont think ive ever seen anyone on this entire forum who actually likes you enough to praise your character. You post some good info, but im yet to see someone on here who actually likes you as a person.

[Saigeo]

Drasca - I get what you're saying, but...

I will disagree on casual players (by this I mean people who have the ability to only play after work or school, but might do so regularly, as opposed to someone who shows up every other weekend, for instance). I know plenty of people that are very quick to learn game mechanics but would get toasted through a barrier, health bar, and guardian spirit in one shot on higher levels. ME3mp was a lot more forgiving in that regard, especially with loads of combos.

Also the game seriously mismanaged their beta testing for those of us stupid enough (myself included) to not uninstall the key glitch version. That's just one example. And how many of us managed to ride to the top early using the arcane, now no longer an option due to damage output?

[Drasca]

Drasca - I get what you're saying, but...

I will disagree on casual players (by this I mean people who have the ability to only play after work or school, but might do so regularly, as opposed to someone who shows up every other weekend, for instance). I know plenty of people that are very quick to learn game mechanics but would get toasted through a barrier, health bar, and guardian spirit in one shot on higher levels. ME3mp was a lot more forgiving in that regard, especially with loads of combos.

 

There are skill combos you don't know about then. Again with the 'not enough to learn how to NM. I did play through and succeed Beta HB&NM with low promotes, and there are enough players to vouch for me on that (now that NM and HB are released, I can actually talk about them).

 

The ones that do know enough are what I do consider middle core, rather than purely casual. I play with them quite a bit, and they do succeed. Yes they do die more often, but so what, it is a team game with revives. The fact is they succeed armed with knowledge, communication, and teamwork.

[Saigeo]

Drasca -

If we want to split hairs then all right, middle core. I don't know you so we're not on the same platform, since I assume you're up there, however you're starting to make assumptions about me. There are not nearly the combos in DAImp as there are in ME3mp, though in fairness there are not nearly the characters, which is unfortunate. However there were a hell of a lot more individual combos than here.

If I shatter a frozen target that is based on my damage output, based on my stats and my weapons. If I do not have those things I am more likely to be a sitting duck that is not killing anything.

And I have no interest in beta testing anything. When I go out and purchase something I would appreciate it being a finished product. That excludes bonus material, even if I have to buy it. I don't like buying a peach I need to ripen in a bag before I can eat it.

If I am to make an assumption, since you have been along for the ride through beta testing, and due to the fact bonus maps and characters have fallen short, you thrive on every change, no matter how large. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you took advantage of the arcane for early promotes...? Or just an advantage due to the fact you already knew the game?

Returning to the poker analogy - I don't want ridiculous rules changes every time I show up. The game is fixed, unless you're playing with a bunch of monkeys and their house rules. At some point the nerfs/buffs/ tweaks and what have you will diminish and we will finally have the finished product. Right now this game is starting to feel like it should have been from the start.

[Texasmotiv]

On changes - The fact of the matter is that the changes needed to happen. They should have been happening a long time ago they have already diminished to lots of little improvements over time. We will continue to see this dwindle until things are relatively stable with minor tweaks here and there. The AW is still getting retooled because it was "too awesome" and is now more in line with other kits. But somewhere along the way it lost its flavor. AW is still a work in progress.

 

On Glitches - There are a bunch of smaller bugs and glitches I agree. I hope these little things are ironed out soon. I feel that the team is more engaged and has more momentum than before so my hopes are good.

 

On Cheaters - I don't personally see this as a huge problem. But that may be that I am lucky to have never encountered glitched lobbies. On top of that, if you play with a cheater, report them, move on. If they get caught good, if not then what does it matter. These things either work out that the player gets banned or they lose interest quickly and move on to something else.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I play with some people on the leaderboards who have around the same promotions as you. They all tell me that its the promotions that make them succeed, simple as that.

Also, i dont think ive ever seen anyone on this entire forum who actually likes you enough to praise your character. You post some good info, but im yet to see someone on here who actually likes you as a person.

Yeah, I, and most others here, never bear enmity toward someone for succeeding, so that statement he made was entirely engineered simply to incite a response. It has nothing to do with this topic.

People here frequently do resent arrogance. This is the reason why people like Drasca and Medallian receive a lot of negativity on these forums. It has nothing to do with their actual success, but everything to do with them belittling others to make themselves feel superior.

On topic: I feel that balance changes add a new bit of life into the game. Suddenly that skill that was always useless is now useful. Even as this may render my YouTube videos obsolete.

With that said, I'm a big advocate of making small changes rather than big ones. A scalpel rather than a sledge hammer, if you will. Not only that, too many balance changes to one class will make players despise that class, so it's a tight rope walk for devs.

I do not really notice glitches much anymore, so I guess I'm lucky. The Key Glitch was my worst, which made the game nearly unplayable and I hold that it's the main reason this game was largely abandoned. Lesson learned for BioWare, I hope.

As far as cheating, I feel it takes a rather pathetic person to cheat in general, but cheating in a co-op multiplayer game to boost yourself on a meaningless leaderboard is about the lowest you can go... I mean, you aren't even getting something out of it. It's cheating just for the sake of cheating.

So... Anyone up for some AW fail time?

[Pork]

People here frequently do resent arrogance. This is the reason why people like Drasca and Medallian receive a lot of negativity on these forums. It has nothing to do with their actual success, but everything to do with them belittling others to make themselves feel superior.

 

This is evidenced by the fact that people like SpaceVegan, Piffle, Snakebite etc are pretty well respected and liked here, despite outranking 99.9% of us on the leaderboards.

[Drasca]

Drasca -

If we want to split hairs then all right, middle core. I don't know you so we're not on the same platform, since I assume you're up there, however you're starting to make assumptions about me. There are not nearly the combos in DAImp as there are in ME3mp, though in fairness there are not nearly the characters, which is unfortunate. However there were a hell of a lot more individual combos than here.

If I shatter a frozen target that is based on my damage output, based on my stats and my weapons. If I do not have those things I am more likely to be a sitting duck that is not killing anything.

 

correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you took advantage of the arcane for early promotes...? Or just an advantage due to the fact you already knew the game?

The game is fixed, unless you're playing with a bunch of monkeys and their house rules.

 

Actually there were a fairly limited number of combos. They were mostly either biotic or tech, and depended on the level of primer / detonator. I had the spreadsheet for the ME3 Combos and played ME3MP quite extensively. Very few were used in practice due to how much stuff was going on overwriting higher level primers. "Your chain overload broke my biotic primer" etc.

 

DAMP about as many or more combo sources, and much more variety of effects.

 

There are very few times where you won't kill with a shatter combo. If you're trying to dps in a higher diffuculty with inquisitor weapons, what do you really expect? The same occurs in ME3 with starter weapons. You technically could kill using those weapons, but it is generally a waste of time trying to be hipster if you have access to better weapons.

 

LOL no AW bored me. Stupid SB spammer builds everyone else used and STILL think it was better. It was not. I actually played warriors way more than mages, against the grain, early on. I had roughly 40 warrior promotes before I had even 20 mage or 10 rogue ones. AW Prime character is what everyone else did. I played what I want, mostly falling in love with Warriors because they were awesome.

 

I also only started Beta after the game was released when it was open to everyone. Sign ups are still open for anyone that's interested I think. I had no insider knowledge, only stuff I scraped on my own or with friends & fora.

 

Hey I like my four monkeys (*)#)(# around a poker table. But yes, the rules actually do change, and so do the odds depending on where you go and when you play. Texas Hold'em ended up really popular lately too, which is a definite change in rules.

[Pork]

Actually there were a fairly limited number of combos. They were mostly either biotic or tech, and depended on the level of primer / detonator. I had the spreadsheet for the ME3 Combos and cheated at ME3MP quite extensively. Very few were used in practice due to how much stuff was going on overwriting higher level primers. "Your chain overload broke my biotic primer" etc.

Ftfy. There was 4 main power combos and they were used extensively, especially on higher difficulties. Some kits were built around combos (paladin, fury, lots of other adepts, engineers and sentinels). The best players utilised combos a lot, since they scaled with difficulty. Since you cheated in me3mp though, i doubt you were very good at the game to begin with.

[Zantazar]

To keep this on topic

 

The most fun that I have had playing MP so far was last weekend. The extra xp was handy and the rev/arcane mix was brilliant. Overall I think that the game seems more stable and the crashes are rarer. The download data loop trying to join a friends game has not happened to me for some time.

 

I have never noticed anyone cheating and if I came across anyone doing such I would not play with them, not sure if I would report them as I am not a fan of "snitching". The Hunter glitch appears pretty poor. Sorry to hear that Drasca is a proven cheat (I am sure that the accusation must be factually based and nothing personal).

 

Saigeo said

"Promotions are always going to remain an issue that is not resolvable, and a requirement for playing higher levels. People who play this casually will never have the basis to play the higher levels no matter how talented they are, causing a rift among the community as to who is willing to play with whom."
 

My main concern with promotions is the way that you can promote with no effort by being "carried" by a friend or friends. I have been guilty of this myself (when in Rome...). I would like to see a way that this could be prevented, but as we know some players at level 1 can (due to their current promotions) manage the higher difficulties and even solo them. Maybe a formula based on total promotion points related to current character level in order to enter a difficulty. But then this would inevitably frustrate a section of the playerbase.

 

I agree with the OP regarding the efforts that are being made, especially Luke and the drastic improvement in communication to the players over the last few months.

 

Great game, and I am optimistic that it will get even better.

 

Zan the Man has a Plan

[Dekibra]

I really hope the next weekend challenges are as interesting as the this one...

 

Winter's Grasp on Ele was finally worth something ^^

 

bioware plz

[Saigeo]

Drasca,

First off you forgot cryo combos, secondly there are 14/20 primer/detonators listed for biotic combos alone (and equally as many for tech and cryo each), vrs 13/16 listed for all characters in DAImp. Perhaps you should have extensively read your spreadsheet as well, no? So I will no longer flog this dead horse.

I am sorry you couldn't build yourself an "A" team in ME3mp that permitted and encouraged unfettered use of multi-character combos since those were really the best and the generated the best gaming experiences. Though perhaps you just preferred using your guns, also okay.

Nope, shatter won't kill on the higher levels (on first shot) unless you have the high stats and high weapons, or you throw in a multiplyer like mark of death (maybe). This presents its own obvious time restraint however, since characters can quickly be overrun unless you have someone with high stats holding the agro for the team.

You can say what you claimed to do, but I never saw a DPS warrior class with low stats, early on, carry a team in perilous. Those people always relied on the arcane to pull them through and rarely stayed up at the end of the game. The most beneficial to the team was the lego, but then he couldn't pull the team in any timely manner, otherwise you wouldn't finish the game until breakfast. The arcane wasn't given up until people started getting stats and then rarely used. Now people don't get this leg up when they're starting out. Though it does seem to me you didn't do your share of the pulling.

Let me get this straight: You beta tested during gameplay? So you had a leg up on new material? Were you allowed to keep your stats? Then I would like to personally thank you, on behalf of the community, for the singularly worst beta testing I have ever experienced. You people must have prioritized things you wanted over playability. Thank you for the key glitch, and game drops, and rubber giants/shadows, and double ExP, and ____ (insert character) cheats, and ____ (insert character) bugs. It was stellar. Please let me know if you plan to beta test anything else before I buy my next game.

(And Bioware! It might behoove you to hire people to professionally beta test rather than have the community with their vested agendas do so for you! Avoid any that would rather play with monkeys).

And Texas Holdem is another version and another game, like Five Card Stud, hence the different names. I am sorry I didn't delineate here, I used a broad brush. Next time I will be less reckless.

One last question: why would you "like" the post defending cheating, and then "like" my post against it? Covering all bases?

[Saigeo]

Zantazar,

Unfortunately once the team is proficient at perilous, the only way to get the stats for anything higher is by being carried, unless you plan on playing this for a very long time. This game sadly relies too heavily on stats.

[Drasca]

I am sorry you couldn't build yourself an "A" team in ME3mp that permitted and encouraged unfettered use of multi-character combos since those were really the best and the generated the best gaming experiences. Though perhaps you just preferred using your guns, also okay

 

I preferred killing the enemies immediately rather than waiting on an exotic combo setup that required cooldowns and coordination of 2 players.

 

Seriously though there were only really two categories of combos and very little actual variation in effects in ME3.

 

DAMP has multiple combo types and effects, triggered from a lot of abilities. ME3 was not 'better' in this regard. DAMP is.

 

 

Nope, shatter won't kill on the higher levels (on first shot)

 

Wanna bet?

 

 

unless you have the high stats and high weapons

 

High level / build / weapon requirement was true of ME3 as well, the stats being replaced with specific skills and/or consumables. You wouldn't one shot everything with base weapons and powers either.

 

You definitely could not one shot tech combo Banshee/Praetorian/Altus Mech on ME3, so the shatter one shot requirement is really useless.

 

 

 I never saw a DPS warrior class with low stats, early on, carry a team in perilous

 

So? Just because you haven't personally seen it, means it you have all the experience in the world and no one else's experiences are valid? I actually started carrying with Templar wombo combo on about late november / december era, or about month 2 into DAMP. Spawn Nuking was the thing to do back then, and extremely effective. We also had specialized strategy and tactics for camping the font room.

 

I'm not alone in this experience, but most idiots spammed SB because it was easy, and they didn't care one bit how other people did so long as they got theirs.

 

Saigo, let me quote someone who already wrote how bugs occur after release:

https://www.reddit.c...s_big_bugs_and/

 

 

The biggest part is simply scale.

Blockbuster games sell tens of millions of copies -- GTA 5 has sold something like 55,000,000. Say that the average person spends 25 hours on a game (for some games, this is a high guess, but for others it's very low -- people often spend 100+ hours on COD or GTA during their ownership). That's 1.3 billion hours. Say that your testing department has 15 employees and that they work for 1 year, full-time, testing your game. For every 1 hour you spent on testing, the customers spend 43,333 hours on playing. When so much time is spent doing stuff in the game, the customers are bound to encounter bugs or glitches the testers didn't.

This is especially true when games are very large or complex, and have a long list of possible situations. Even in 30K hours, the testers couldn't test every single possibility in the game. Did they test what happens if a car explodes while upside down on a rock at night in the rain while the player is in the middle of the bike-mounting animation? Did they test what happens if you're in the middle of reloading a gun when a building collapses in mission 17 when your hand is supposed to cover your face, resulting in a weird animation glitch? Did they accelerate to mass speed while manipulating the camera with the mouse on its highest sensitivity but the aiming inverted? There are some bugs that only happen if you did one thing in one part of the game and another in a separate part 10 hours later -- if they were testing chunk by chunk (the usual situation), maybe they never saw that combination.

But even when they do catch things, they don't necessarily get fixed. Development time is finite, decisions are made about which things are important enough to spend it on. Super-glitchy games are usually games that were rushed to meet a tight deadline, or which had small budgets, meaning it just wasn't possible to spend valuable developer time fixing bugs over adding features that have more impact on sales. Then even when you do allocate time to fixing a bug, some are easier to fix than others. Some bugs exist because of tiny oversights in physics engines, and are very hard to track down. Sometimes, the bug exists in a licensed engine and the developers don't even have the ability to fix it, they have to get the engine's developer to try and fix it and that might not be done in time for the game's release.
 

 

If you cannot accept that answer, I suggest you direct your efforts toward EA and have them send more money and development resources to BW

 

 

One last question: why would you "like" the post defending cheating, and then "like" my post against it? Covering all bases?

 

I like well written posts, no matter the side. Are you trying to tell me to only side political lines, and that you can't recognize value in other people's arguements? That's what you're inferring here.

[Saigeo]

Drasca,

-Seriously there are three combo types. Just because you like setups and cool downs in DAImp and not in ME3mp doesn't change the fact that you like one better than the other, so say so and don't make things up to justify that. It is what it is.

-You want to bet that you can one shot stuff low level in DAImp, yet you say one can't one shot in ME3mp either. Which is it?

-Perhaps the powers that be have heard, perhaps not.

-And you like my prose, I'm flattered. This is an opinion forum, not English class. Perhaps you will let us now know if you support or oppose cheating...? Right now I am very curious.

[Saigeo]

Angelus,

My apologies to you and anybody else that makes sense. My comments were directed at a sole poster. I will "like" your post for excellent use of language.

[Denrok1]

Drasca please come to the Xbox one !

[Snakebite]

One last question: why would you "like" the post defending cheating, and then "like" my post against it? Covering all bases?

 

I recall a situation much like this one.  D liked a post that was poorly written and very poorly thought out.  The logic in said post ran completely counter to D's thoughts on the issue, and fell in line with my own, even though it was clearly written as an attack on me and/or my credibility.  As far as I could conclude, D liked it either because he changed his mind, because it was written by a friend, or because it was an attack on me.  It became clear from subsequent posts that his viewpoint had not changed, and so I must conclude that he liked if for one of the other reasons, which would fall within siding along "political lines".