We need to forget that pandas are a thing. Mists needs to die.
I don't see why the pandaren are any problem. It's not like they were pulled from thin air or anything, they've been in the game since Warcraft 3. They aren't ripped form Kung-Fu Panda, Kung-Fu Panda stole from Blizzard.
I don't see why the pandaren are any problem. It's not like they were pulled from thin air or anything, they've been in the game since Warcraft 3. They aren't ripped form Kung-Fu Panda, Kung-Fu Panda stole from Blizzard.
Yeah, but they were originally a joke. Until someone had the bright idea to make them "Lore" in TFT.
But I mean if Mists was any indication they've remand a joke still.
Yeah, but they were originally a joke. Until someone had the bright idea to make them "Lore" in TFT.
They really should have stayed a joke. I blame Chris Metzen.
Also, Thrall is the worst orc ever and needs to be killed.
They really should have stayed a joke. I blame Chris Metzen.
Also, Thrall is the worst orc ever and needs to be killed.
If you played MoP you'd know they have. I typically like Chris, but the Pandas knocked him down a peg.
Thrall is overrated! Recon speaks truth. IT IS WRITTEN!
If you played MoP you'd know they have. I typically like Chris, but the Pandas knocked him down a peg.
Thrall is overrated! Recon speaks truth. IT IS WRITTEN!
With a statement as vague as this, I'm sure you must have a good reason for not liking the pandaren that isn't "lol Kung Fu Panda". The only jokey segments in Mists are the hozen in the Jade Forest (who have nothing to do with the pandaren) and the Valley of the Four Winds, the zone that is 90% helping farmers clear out pests from their fields and helping fat drunken panda farmers do their chores and is painfully boring to level through. The other zones are just as serious as any other in other expansions.
I found the lore after WotLK somewhat hard to take seriously. Not to say that before the WoW story didn't have silly moments (looking at you, Kael'thas).
WoD suffers from Thrall over-exposure (in regards to Garrosh), poor pacing, a paper tiger villain faction, and the most obnoxious case of Orcstalgia I've ever seen in an expansion. Grom wages an interplanet war of extermination but everyone forgives him for killing demons and stuff. (amg guise its like WC3 all over again)
MoP had its moments. Namely, when it was focusing on anything except that stupid faction war. The Pandaren are surprisingly layered despite being a collection of Chinese stereotypes. They have more depth than some vanilla races, at least.
WoD suffers from Thrall over-exposure, poor pacing, a paper tiger villain faction, and the most obnoxious case of Orcstalgia in an expansion. Grom wages an interplanet war of extermination but everyone forgives him for killing demons and stuff.
Thrall overexposure? Thrall does next to nothing in the entire expansion until Nagrand, when he fights Garrosh. Other than that he's just a quest giver, and he doesn't appear all that often compared to, say, Durotan or Drek'Thar. He helps players establish their buildings in each new zone they go to and he fights Garrosh, that's about it.
"Orcstalgia"? I'm going to assume you're familiar with Warcraft lore here and ask why you would expect an expansion that takes place on the homeworld of the orcs to not be so heavily focused on the orcs? And even then there is the Legion in Tanaan and Talador, the ogres in Nagrand, the arrakoa in the Spires, and the Breakers and Primals in Gorgrond. Shadowmoon Valley and Frostfire Ridge are the only zones that are "ORCS ORCS ORCS".
Empire Earth was my personal favorite RTS. But I think competitive RTS gaming is nearly dead due to how easily accessible MOBAs are. I dunno I haven't bought an RTS since Startcraft 2 which I played for about 3 months at release then quit.
RTS games are kind of in a weird place. They aren't as accessible for multiplayer as MOBAs and aren't as 'deep' as turn based strategy and RPGs for singleplayer.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I don't even like Warcraft much, but Thrall was always cool to me. And I liked the unique, alien spin Blizz gave to Orcs. It was original at least.
Thrall overexposure? Thrall does next to nothing in the entire expansion until Nagrand, when he fights Garrosh. Other than that he's just a quest giver, and he doesn't appear all that often compared to, say, Durotan or Drek'Thar. He helps players establish their buildings in each new zone they go to and he fights Garrosh, that's about it.
"Orcstalgia"? I'm goign to assume you're familiar with Warcraft lore here and ask why you would expect an expansion that takes place on the homeworld of the orcs to not be so heavily focused on the orcs? And even then there is the Legion in Tanaan and Talador, the ogres in Nagrand, the arrakoa in the Spires, and the Breakers and Primals in Gorgrond. Shadowmoon Valley and Frostfire Ridge are the only zones that are "ORCS ORCS ORCS".
I'm not surprised that an expansion based on Draenor had lots of orcs in it, though at this point it's more like "ugh, more Orcs? really?".
I already endured an expansion's worth of Blizzard telling me how amazing Thrall is and how he can do anything and I swear to the Naaru if I hear "Go'el" one more time I'm going to invent an airlock just so I can throw Aggra out of it. This may have played a big part in why I hated Cata so much.
Though the Alliance side did at least get a decent amount of Draenei during questing in WoD, but from a story perspective the whole thing does have a bit of a feeling of "nothing I do here really matters, since this is an alternate universe".
"Orcstalgia"? I'm goign to assume you're familiar with Warcraft lore here and ask why you would expect an expansion that takes place on the homeworld of the orcs to not be so heavily focused on the orcs? And even then there is the Legion in Tanaan and Talador, the ogres in Nagrand, the arrakoa in the Spires, and the Breakers and Primals in Gorgrond. Shadowmoon Valley and Frostfire Ridge are the only zones that are "ORCS ORCS ORCS".
Aside from the fact that I think an expansion like this is unnecessary from a story point of view (War Crimes be damned), I've always thought an orc-centric expansion can be done well. I was actually excited to see the treatment of the Shadowmoon and Shattered Hand clans.
What I have a problem with is the storyline treatment given to the Orcs. What happened with Grom in 6.2 is symptomatic of it. First, Orcs go do something ridiculously stupid at the expense of everyone else. They go on to 'redeem' themselves by slaughtering demons and are forgiven with a few exceptions. They learn little from the experience overall. Heck, Grom didn't even hint that he regretted doing anything aside from losing. Note that I'm not including the Frostwolves. They are just as much victims of the Iron Horde as the Draenei.
Also, Gul'dan escaping is a lazy sequel hook if I've seen it.
I'm not surprised that an expansion based on Draenor had lots of orcs in it, though at this point it's more like "ugh, more Orcs? really?".
At THIS point (meaning with the release of patch 6.2) it's all about the Legion. The orcs aren't even at the center stage anymore, aside from Gul'dan and Grom. All of the other Warlords besides Kilrogg are dead and Kilrogg is a low-tier raid boss with not a lot of lore besides his Lords of War episode.
I already endured an expansion's worth of Blizzard telling me how amazing Thrall is and how he can do anything and I swear to the Naaru if I hear "Go'el" one more time I'm going to invent an airlock just so I can throw Aggra out of it. This may have played a big part in why I hated Cata so much.
Like I said above, Thrall is barely even featured in Warlords aside from physically appearing. He doesn't do much of anything besides fighting Garrosh. If any friendly orcs do anything, it's Durotan and Drek'Thar.
Though the Alliance side did at least get a decent amount of Draenei during questing in WoD, but from a story perspective the whole thing does have a bit of a feeling of "nothing I do here really matters, since this is an alternate universe".
The entire idea was that the Iron Horde were invading the original timeline's Azeroth (and by their own words, invading more worlds when they were done). Stopping the Iron Horde meant saving the main Azeroth.
Although I'm still not sure how they get back to Azeroth from Draenor, since the Dark Portal is destroyed.
At THIS point (meaning with the release of patch 6.2) it's all about the Legion. The orcs aren't even at the center stage anymore, aside from Gul'dan and Grom. All of the other Warlords besides Kilrogg are dead and Kilrogg is a low-tier raid boss with not a lot of lore besides his Lords of War episode.
Like I said above, Thrall is barely even featured in Warlords aside from physically appearing. He doesn't do much of anything besides fighting Garrosh. If any friendly orcs do anything, it's Durotan and Drek'Thar.
The entire idea was that the Iron Horde were invading the original timeline's Azeroth (and by their own words, invading more worlds when they were done). Stopping the Iron Horde meant saving the main Azeroth.
Although I'm still not sure how they get back to Azeroth from Draenor, since the Dark Portal is destroyed.
When I said "I already endured an entire expansion's worth" I was talking about Thrall's role in Cataclysm, plus despite it being all about the Legion now doesn't mean that we haven't had a ton of Orcs up until now. Admittedly I haven't played in a while so I don't know what's going on in 6.2
On the Alliance side, we see plenty of portals back to MU Stormwind. It doesn't seem hard for Khadgar to conjure them up.
In my books Blizzard were never good writers. WC3 was decent, Brood War had a great Zerg campaign, anything other than that was always cheesy as hell and full of plot holes and retcons. I don't play WoW anymore but from what I heard they kinda took a dump on the lore since Wrath (which had its own story problems, especially the nonsensical ending to ICC).
Anyway, as to RTS, I think MOBAs have overstepped the genre in many ways. As competitive gaming (which RTS is played even close to competitively by a decent enough number of people, save the special snowflake SC2?) but also as casual gaming. For a lot of people, MOBAs are like RTS, except with only 1 unit to control and teamates on which you can blame everything. So it's much less stressfull than SC2, which is extremely demanding to play even at a midly competitive level.
I personally still enjoy Company of Heroes (1 and 2) and boot up Sins of a Solar Empire occasionally, along with an occasional Total War game (that I never finish). But apart from SC2, the genre is very much niche now.
I think another basis for RTS dwindling in popularity is for a lot of games there's just a lot to take in. I mean look at Supreme Commander, great RTS but holy **** is there a lot you have to account for considering the size of most battles. Micro-managing and multitasking is just not something the current audiences want. People want to hop in, play, win, move onto the next one. It's sad really because games like SupCom are so good and have so much depth and complexity, but have been overlooked by the majority of gamers. The fact that you have to "learn" to play rather than just get to playing scares most of the younger crowd away because "Why spend a few hours playing the game to learn about it through trail and error when I can buy CoD 26: Guns, Guns, 420BlazeIt and dominate in 20 minutes?" And the older crowds I've found, the ones who grew up on Total War, StarCraft, C&C, CoH etc, just don't have the time anymore as life takes over to want to sit down and re-learn units, build orders, a decent APM. And as a result unfortunately the genre has lessened in popularity.
But that's my two cents.
In my books Blizzard were never good writers. WC3 was decent, Brood War had a great Zerg campaign, anything other than that was always cheesy as hell and full of plot holes and retcons. I don't play WoW anymore but from what I heard they kinda took a dump on the lore since Wrath (which had its own story problems, especially the nonsensical ending to ICC).
Not that the story was perfect but I think you underrate SC1 and BW. The UED was badass.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
The guy lead writing for SC and Diablo now was one of the better writers for Bioware once (he did the Tuchanka stuff in ME2.. and Okeer, Grunt, Samara, Jack).
The guy lead writing for SC and Diablo now was one of the better writers for Bioware once (he did the Tuchanka stuff in ME2.. and Okeer, Grunt, Samara, Jack).
Oh, I always figured Chris Metzen murdered him to take that spot and create Thrall as a self-insert character.
Oh, I always figured Chris Metzen murdered him to take that spot and create Thrall as a self-insert character.
Thrall was a decent character and an interesting leader for the Orcs. He had ambitions, flaws and strengths but it never felt like he was shoved into the spotlight for the sake of it.
Then comes Cataclysm and "Go'el" replaces him.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Then comes Cataclysm and "Go'el" replaces him.
Is Thrall dead? I quit Wow long before Cataclysm.
Is Thrall dead? I quit Wow long before Cataclysm.
As for Brian Kindregan, he was the lead of D3 and did SC2 expansions.. but he filled in for Metzen, rather than the other way around.
Go'el is Thrall's Orcish name. He became all "Orcy" in Cata. Took that shaman thing to the next level, knocked up Aggra, dropped acid with the Aspects, ya know usual stuff.
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