910 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor_Jonah]

I'm not sure. I mean we had Krem in DA:I and although I have nothing against "him" I don't think "he" was a particularily interesting character. "His" transgenderism was all that "he" had going for "him" and it made "him" a rather boring and typical token character.

 

If BioWare thinks they can add a trans character that isn't just a boring token trans character then by all means. But since the ME team can't even do gay characters right (Steve was also a boring token gay character) I doubt they'll do a much better job with trans characters (unless they hire some of the DA:I writers and even then I'm skeptical).

I think they handled Kaidan way better than  they did with Steve, Krem and even Dorian. Despite people's complaing of his sudden bisexuality reveal, I think it was perfectly done. No need to make a spectacular coming out scene, the intimate way they did, not making any type of spectacular coming out scene, it fitted the character way better, thus not taking the focus out of anything that came before (he admitted he was in love with a girl, but never said anything about not liking men to me). As a gay guy, I found him more interesting than the others, simply because his sexuality wasn't the main focus of his story. So as I said in my first post, make a trans character, but make him/her a badass. Don't fuss about gender issues.

[daveliam]

How the hell was Steve "a token gay guy"?

 

Steve was not stereotypical acting in anyway.  His character was developed beyond just being gay.  And his story arc is about getting over the loss of a spouse.

 

How is that "token gay"?  I seriously don't understand BSN logic at all.

[Lady Artifice]

I don't think that there's anything for anyone to panic about here. If Bioware does a trans companion, it will probably be in DA.

[GaroTD]

Making Kaidan bi was really out of place in my opinion. Not one hint that he is bi in ME1 or 2 and then suddenly in 3: "let's make 2 gay romances". For me it just make him forever stay at Virmir And it screwed with fem-sheps romancing Kaidan, becouse he was like one of few romance options left for fem-shep that were exclusive for her.

[The Loyal Nub]

I don't think that there's anything for anyone to panic about here. If Bioware does a trans companion, it will probably be in DA.

 

Even if they did in ME there is no need for panic or this foolishness or posturing with all of this "I don't want to see it as a whole storyline" (looking at you Medhia Nox). If they include a trans LI at all, if, then I am sure that will be part of the revelation if you interact with that character and I am sure it will be entirely optional to romance them and I am sure it will not be the whole plot of Andromeda.

 

However despite it being "optional" I am sure a segment of the fandom will lose what's left of their minds in a moral panic about it all. I'd bet on that if bets were being taken.

[daveliam]

I don't think that there's anything for anyone to panic about here. If Bioware does a trans companion, it will probably be in DA.

 

Yeah, ultimately all 15 pages of this thread are pretty pointless.  I suspect that this is something that the DA team will implement first.  I mean, the ME team hasn't introduced any trans characters.  The DA team has introduced several trans characters at this point.  I think that they are going to have a trans companion in Mae and then possibly add in a trans romance in the future.  In the meantime, I don't think the ME time is going to leapfrog them in this.

 

The reactions in the thread are definitely a preview of what would be to come if they did, though.  Shame.

[Panda]

Making Kaidan bi was really out of place in my opinion. Not one hint that he is bi in ME1 or 2 and then suddenly in 3: "let's make 2 gay romances". For me it just make him forever stay at Virmir And it screwed with fem-sheps romancing Kaidan, becouse he was like one of few romance options left for fem-shep that were exclusive for her.

 

I don't think that screwed over fem-sheps cause at least I don't care about exclusiviness, especially since nothing really changed other than that he was available to both genders.

[Boost32]

I don't think that screwed over fem-sheps cause at least I don't care about exclusiviness, especially since nothing really changed other than that he was available to both genders.

It changed, because now your femshep could ask him how hot certain guys are if she wanted.

[Ridwan]

I will admit I know next to nothing about tranny culture.

 

But I'd imagine, if you're a transgender person, wouldn't you want people to purely think you're a woman/man without even knowing you had an operation?

 

So what's the point of having a tranny in the game, if you he/she had an op? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of changing your sex? That people are aware of it?

[daveliam]

I will admit I know next to nothing about tranny culture.

 

But I'd imagine, if you're a transgender person, wouldn't you want people to purely think you're a woman/man without even knowing you had an operation?

 

So what's the point of having a tranny in the game, if you he/she had an op? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of changing your sex? That people are aware of it?

 

Not all trans people want to hide it.  They want to be treated like the gender that they identify as, but aren't trying to fool people into thinking that they were born that way.  At least the trans people that I know feel that way.  They want to be treated like men and don't introduce themselves by identifying as trans, but if it comes up, it comes up.  And certainly their partners (all bisexual females, interestingly.....) all know it.  So it would come up in a romance story arc.  Trans people aren't trying to trick people into sleeping with them.  Most of them, anyway.  I'm sure there are some sketchy ones, like any other group of people.

 

Also, "tranny" isn't the best term.  Just use trans.  It's less letters to type anyway. 

[Farangbaa]

I don't give a damn.

But, looking at a large part of the reactions here, I think Bioware totally should.

And force him/her down your throat.

[Steppenwolf]

I don't give a damn.

But, looking at a large part of the reactions here, I think Bioware totally should.

And force him/her down your throat.

Pun intended?

[Farangbaa]

Pun intended?

Eh.. I dunno?

It's just a jab at all the people claiming Bioware is shoving 'gayness' down their throat.

[GaroTD]

Becouse they kinda are? "Im Traynor and i like EDI voice", "Im Cortez and i lost my husband". This is like first thing they say. BW is like "LOOK THEY ARE GAY".

[daveliam]

Becouse they kinda are? "Im Traynor and i like EDI voice", "Im Cortez and i lost my husband". This is like first thing they say. BW is like "LOOK THEY ARE GAY".

 

What?  So now if a gay character even mentions that they are gay, they are a "token gay"? 

 

Look, if a trans character was included in the game, I would hope that they would have more to offer than just being trans.  Despite people's argument, Krem offers more than 'just being trans'.  He does offer being trans, but he also offers another perspective on Tevinter and serves a role in Bull's story arc (the likeable second-in-command who you must choose to either save or sacrifice - both sides with consequences).  He wasn't a strong character on his own, but he wasn't meant to be.  If they took a character like him and expanded him out to give him more prominence, it would be a perfectly fine way to incorporate a trans character.  Have a conversation when it comes up, then move on.  Both extremes (mentioning just that and nothing else and not mentioning that at all) are unsatisfactory.

[Boost32]

Krem have little to offer, people only remember Krem because Krem is transexual.
If a cis man changed place with Krem, everyone would say he was boring.

[GaroTD]

I would like to just get rid of all romances in game actually. Why so much focus has to be put in sexuality. I mean it's a science-fiction, not dating simulator. And people talk about it like it is the most important thing in this game. I don't want to BW do something like "so we already have 2 gay, 2 tran, 2 straight, 2 black and 2 left handed characters...uff good, now everybody will be happy." It's wieeerd. 

[daveliam]

Krem have little to offer, people only remember Krem because Krem is transexual.
If a cis man changed place with Krem, everyone would say he was boring.

 

Krem is totally boring.  But he's not in the game to be a strong character on his own.  He's there to be a plot device for Iron Bull.  The most interesting thing about him is that he's transgender.  But that's because they made the first prominent trans character a fairly boring one.  The way that they actually introduced his gender identity was fine.  It was mentioned once.  You could follow up on it if you want to, but it's totally optional.  And it doesn't play a major role in his plot going forward.  Yes, I know some people found Bull to be 'preachy' if you keep asking questions, but outside of that, it was totally fine.

 

I would like to just get rid of all romances in game actually. Why so much focus has to be put in sexuality. I mean it's a science-fiction, not dating simulator. And people talk about it like it is the most important thing in this game. I don't want to BW do something like "so we already have 2 gay, 2 tran, 2 straight, 2 black and 2 left handed characters...uff good, now everybody will be happy." It's wieeerd. 

 

Not going to happen in ME.  It's already confirmed.  If they chose to avoid romances in a future IP, I'd be disappointed, but I'd support it.

[Sully13]

"Hay chief i know we are waste deap in an Alien sewer being hunted by cyborg Dog like things. but do you wanna make out? and by the way i was born a chick.. also the bome we are holding is about to dettonate."

[Farangbaa]

Becouse they kinda are? "Im Traynor and i like EDI voice", "Im Cortez and i lost my husband". This is like first thing they say. BW is like "LOOK THEY ARE GAY".

Lol.

And for every time they do that, there's 10 instances of 'LOOK, HE/SHE IS STRAIGHT'.

[KaiserShep]

I don't give a damn.But, looking at a large part of the reactions here, I think Bioware totally should.And force him/her down your throat.

If there's one thing that's fun to watch, it's watching BSN get stuff shoved down their throats.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@ManchesterUnitedFan1:  So do albino people!  Or people with dwarfism.  Or color blind people.  Or a million other people.

 

But people aren't open to having:  "That trans character in the background who doesn't do much."  Because THEN it's insulting.  It works both ways.  You can't have fair, non-PC inclusion... AND also be center stage all the time. 

 

All I want to know is:  "How useful are you to the mission." 

Your particular uniqueness has no bearing on the story as this is not a space drama about people's self-exploration.

 

So great, have a trans character - but if that's all that character is contributing, then he/she is useless to me.  And if it's not - then why is the trans part even important?

 

People in this thread are specifically saying that they don't want any trans romance, or chartacters full stop, and if Bioware included one then they'd be being PC.

 

I'm saying that the mere existence of a trans crewmate would not be PC in any way, shape or form.

[RZIBARA]

Lol.

And for every time they do that, there's 10 instances of 'LOOK, HE/SHE IS STRAIGHT'.

 

give an example

[Pasquale1234]

I understand. Nobody should be judging or calling other people freaks or abominations when it comes to things like race, colour, sexual preference, etc.
 
My point is.. both transgenders and non-transgenders are *people*. There should be labels for neither. I mean sure, transgender to a degree is a label.. but it serves a purpose to explain somebody who went through the transition. The "cisgender" concept I don't believe is necessary and seems to be grouping mentality, just my opinion though.

Ever since gender started being used to define biological sex, I think it made the term less meaningful and more confusing. I always liked the word gender as a descriptor for masculine, feminine, androgynous, etc., and sex to refer to male, female, intersexed, hermaphrodite, etc.

Using the terms as I've described, a transsexual would be someone seeking to change the sex of their body, and a transgender (or genderqueer ?) would be someone not cisgendered. Maybe we'll all agree on what gender terms (masculine, feminine) mean someday, maybe we won't.

Of course, by rights, a fully post-op transsexual would no longer be transsexual, as they would actually be living in the body that felt right to them.
 

You know what I would actually find INTERESTING? Some version of this:

It's the future. Who's to say that it's not possible in the future with better technology to ACTUALLY fully swap sexes? So I'd like to see a character where:

• you find out, completely by accident, that they were born male
• they switched to being female years ago and have given birth to several children (AREN'T THEY ADORABLE)
• they make no effort to act particularly "feminine"--no makeup, no cleavage
• they're contemplating switching back to male so that they can impregnate their new partner, who is female--yeah, they could go the artificial insemination route or have a clone or similar, but they find actual sex more emotionally fulfilling

It's science fiction, why freeze at the current level of development when you can really go somewhere cool.

Surely you're not suggesting that humanity could ever reach a point where sex is no longer an absolute binary but has a bit of fluidity built in? Perish the thought.

I've actually been written off as a 'radfem' for disagreeing with blanket statements that men seek women who 'this' and women want men who 'that'. Apparently, the successful career women who serve as primary breadwinners for their families and stay-at-home dads I know don't exist - or at least are not socially accepted / supported / acknowledged. In any case, if wanting overall equality and the chance for everyone to simply be who they are and fulfill whatever social roles best suit them makes me a 'radfem', I guess I'll wear that mantle proudly.


OT: I expect Bioware will do their best to provide a variety of interesting LI options. Honestly, given the development of genetic mods and whatnot in the MEU, there could certainly be trans characters out and about that we might not even know were trans.

Slightly off-topic: I always really liked the concept of the Asari in MEU. The idea that these people could grow up in a culture with no notion of gender or gender roles is very appealing to me. To grow up without ever being told 'girls aren't supposed to do that!' or 'boys can't do that!' or you must... blablabla. No pink and blue aisles at the toy store. People simply allowed to be who they are, with no gender-based pigeonholing or expectations. At least, those are some of my impressions of what it might be like. I would have liked to explore more of that; instead they were used as the galaxy's official strippers.

[daveliam]

give an example

 

Kasumi

 

In your very first conversation with her, she "shoves her heterosexuality" "down your throat".  She's such a token character.  She was clearly only included to be a token character.  After all, all she talks about is how she's straight.  Being straight is very important to her story.  It's what the entire thing is all about.