Kasumi
In your very first conversation with her, she "shoves her heterosexuality" "down your throat". She's such a token character. She was clearly only included to be a token character. After all, all she talks about is how she's straight. Being straight is very important to her story. It's what the entire thing is all about.
I never liked Kasumi or found her to be an interesting character, so there you go.
There's your proof
Making Kaidan bi was really out of place in my opinion. Not one hint that he is bi in ME1 or 2 and then suddenly in 3: "let's make 2 gay romances". For me it just make him forever stay at Virmir
And it screwed with fem-sheps romancing Kaidan, becouse he was like one of few romance options left for fem-shep that were exclusive for her.
Kaidan seemed gay to me since ME1. Sure he mentioned a girl he liked in Biotic camp but there was nothing sexual about it, he tells you himself. He mentions that Liara is attractive but that's really it. Then you had the meeting in ME2 which was very intense no matter what gender you played. So it was pretty believable in ME3 when he tells Mshep "Have you ever known me to be with anyone?"
Back on Topic. I wouldn't mind a trans character romance but I wouldn't want their character arc to be one big social issue.
Actually, an evil part of me would love it if they pulled a "Crying Game". 
Kaidan seemed gay to me since ME1. Sure he mentioned a girl he liked in Biotic camp but there was nothing sexual about it, he tells you himself. He mentions that Liara is attractive but that's really it.
What about his comments in chora's den? And that he flirts only with fem-shep? Nope i still think it was wierd.
You know, to an extent, I understand the "we don't need inclusion for inclusion's sake, political correctness gone mad, working off a checklist argument." To an extent, I agree with it - to the extent that I think it's obvious when the writers don't feel passionate about what they're writing and are only including it out of a perceived obligation, to make a quota. That's what I think of when I think of when I think of "the checklist", and I think that the quality of the writing suffers in those scenarios
What I do not understand is the apparent hostility some people have to the very concept of including any more minorities at all, be it race or gender identity. The idea that "haven't they done enough already?", to me, carries the implication that any further inclusion and representation would qualify as a defeat or sacrifice on their part. That it involves them surrendering something to someone else, with the vague implication that they've surrendered enough already.
Now, I could be entirely imagining that, reading way too much in to certain individual's posts. That's just the implication I'm seeing in the hostility certain people have towards the idea.
Speaking for myself - a white, cisgender, straight man - I don't think the inclusion of non white, non straight, and/or trans characters harms my experience of the game at all. I don't lose anything by their inclusion, I'm not giving anything up so they can be in the game, so long as they're in the game because the writers actively want to include them, have an interest and a passion towards the character and aren't working off a check list.
I don't know. Maybe it's just the implication that the only reason a trans person would be included in the game is because they're working off a political correctness checklist that irks me. As if the writers couldn't have a legitimate interest in including such characters. That's a concept I can't understand.
I never liked Kasumi or found her to be an interesting character, so there you go.
There's your proof
I liked both of them.Zaeed was better and he was FREE!
For the record, I'm not part of the tumblr crowd. Don't have a tumblr account, only been on the site a handful of times when looking at something a friend showed me or some such.
I never liked Kasumi or found her to be an interesting character, so there you go.
There's your proof
So you consider Kasumi to be a token straight person? And that she was only added to the game to talk about her sexuality? Because that's what the person was asserting about Steve and Samantha. The question wasn't if they were interested or not. It was whether they were 'token gays'.
Kaidan seemed gay to me since ME1. Sure he mentioned a girl he liked in Biotic camp but there was nothing sexual about it, he tells you himself. He mentions that Liara is attractive but that's really it. Then you had the meeting in ME2 which was very intense no matter what gender you played. So it was pretty believable in ME3 when he tells Mshep "Have you ever known me to be with anyone?"
Kaidan and mShep have crazy sexual tension throughout the series. I can't believe how many people don't see it just because they can't bang until the third game.
What about his comments in chora's den? And that he flirts only with fem-shep? Nope i still think it was wierd.
And what about his sexy stare and forehead sweat wiping move when you talk to him in ME1. The same one that he gives to FemShep. And what about the time that he said, "Losing you was like losing a limb!" to mShep? He clearly prefers women, but it's not a stretch to see him as bisexual.
You know, to an extent, I understand the "we don't need inclusion for inclusion's sake, political correctness gone mad, working off a checklist argument." To an extent, I agree with it - to the extent that I think it's obvious when the writers don't feel passionate about what they're writing and are only including it out of a perceived obligation, to make a quota. That's what I think of when I think of when I think of "the checklist", and I think that the quality of the writing suffers in those scenarios
What I do not understand is the apparent hostility some people have to the very concept of including any more minorities at all, be it race or gender identity. The idea that "haven't they done enough already?", to me, carries the implication that any further inclusion and representation would qualify as a defeat or sacrifice on their part. That it involves them surrendering something to someone else, with the vague implication that they've surrendered enough already.
Now, I could be entirely imagining that, reading way too much in to certain individual's posts. That's just the implication I'm seeing in the hostility certain people have towards the idea.
Speaking for myself - a white, cisgender, straight man - I don't think the inclusion of non white, non straight, and/or trans characters harms my experience of the game at all. I don't lose anything by their inclusion, I'm not giving anything up so they can be in the game, so long as they're in the game because the writers actively want to include them, have an interest and a passion towards the character and aren't working off a check list.
I don't know. Maybe it's just the implication that the only reason a trans person would be included in the game is because they're working off a political correctness checklist that irks me. As if the writers couldn't have a legitimate interest in including such characters. That's a concept I can't understand.
Dammit, FF. You wrote this post immediately as I ran out of likes. Anyway, YES to this whole post.
I never liked Kasumi or found her to be an interesting character, so there you go.
There's your proof
What is this heresy! 
For the record, I'm not part of the tumblr crowd. Don't have a tumblr account, only been on the site a handful of times when looking at something a friend showed me or some such.
Zaeed was better and he was FREE!
She was free in PS3 version when Zaeed is not. Or maybe it's just my version I have no idea 
That's my response to that.
I'm surprised that your response wasn't a snort.....
What about his comments in chora's den? And that he flirts only with fem-shep? Nope i still think it was wierd.
Fem Shep doesn't exist in my world. And that flirting can be fixed by unlocking the romance he was already supposed to have with MShep. Which I feel is unneeded anyway. Kaidan/MShep romance in ME3 is so much better with the game left alone.
I forgot his comments in Chora's Den. Considering he's never done anything with the women in Chora's den, my point stands.
Kaidan and mShep have crazy sexual tension throughout the series. I can't believe how many people don't see it just because they can't bang until the third game.
Pretty much this. I unlocked the romance in ME1 and found that it wasn't even needed as the sexual tension between MShep and Kaidan was already there. Just like the meeting in ME2. The only difference is the hug and I think a bit of dialogue. Once again, unlocking the romance for MShep and Kaidan wasn't needed and overall I found the experience lacking compared to just letting it play out as is.
I'm surprised that your response wasn't a snort.....
She was free in PS3 version when Zaeed is not. Or maybe it's just my version I have no idea
PS3 player; I got them both for free.
I'm surprised that your response wasn't a snort.....
I'm somewhat surprised he responded at all.
She was free in PS3 version when Zaeed is not. Or maybe it's just my version I have no idea
I'm somewhat surprised he responded at all.
I forgot his comments in Chora's Den. Considering he's never done anything with the women in Chora's den, my point stands.
All it means is that he finds sexy ladies to be sexy. Which makes sense since he's not gay. Finding sexy ladies sexy is in character for a bisexual guy. Now, if he had entered a male strip club and made comments about not finding them sexy, I would agree his bisexuality seems out of character. But since he doesn't, the point stands.
*snarky slightly politically incorrect comment*
Atta boy!
Even if they did in ME there is no need for panic or this foolishness or posturing with all of this "I don't want to see it as a whole storyline" (looking at you Medhia Nox). If they include a trans LI at all, if, then I am sure that will be part of the revelation if you interact with that character and I am sure it will be entirely optional to romance them and I am sure it will not be the whole plot of Andromeda.
However despite it being "optional" I am sure a segment of the fandom will lose what's left of their minds in a moral panic about it all. I'd bet on that if bets were being taken.
Yeah, ultimately all 15 pages of this thread are pretty pointless. I suspect that this is something that the DA team will implement first. I mean, the ME team hasn't introduced any trans characters. The DA team has introduced several trans characters at this point. I think that they are going to have a trans companion in Mae and then possibly add in a trans romance in the future. In the meantime, I don't think the ME time is going to leapfrog them in this.
The reactions in the thread are definitely a preview of what would be to come if they did, though. Shame.
And it screwed with fem-sheps romancing Kaidan, becouse he was like one of few romance options left for fem-shep that were exclusive for her.
Okay you're in the shuttle bay of your ship.... a woman has the ship on the rack for repairs, she's wearing coveralls and she's working on it because it took damage, Her name is Jan.
You: Hey, Jan, I've been looking through your file and I happened to see a reference when you were once Jon.
Jan: Yeah, that was a long time ago. Would you hand me that 7 mm box wrench?
You (dialog choice): Why didn't you ever say anything about it when I recruited you?
Jan (turns to face you): Because it wasn't important. Look, I bagged six bad guys down there, and hacked our way into the facility. I'm doing my job. Now do you want this shuttle ready to go for our next mission, or do you want to talk about ancient history?
Fem Shep doesn't exist in my world. And that flirting can be fixed by unlocking the romance he was already supposed to have with MShep. Which I feel is unneeded anyway. Kaidan/MShep romance in ME3 is so much better with the game left alone.
I forgot his comments in Chora's Den. Considering he's never done anything with the women in Chora's den, my point stands.
Pretty much this. I unlocked the romance in ME1 and found that it wasn't even needed as the sexual tension between MShep and Kaidan was already there. Just like the meeting in ME2. The only difference is the hug and I think a bit of dialogue. Once again, unlocking the romance for MShep and Kaidan wasn't needed and overall I found the experience lacking compared to just letting it play out as is.
You can fix this by "unlocking" kaidan romance but it's still not canon or intended to exist in ME1. And i don't see that whole "tension" between them, actually they behave like frends and nothing more. That way you can find "sexual tension" with any of the characters.
Another proof is that when femshem can't decide between Liara or Kaidan, Kaidan is confused and not like "it's fine, im bi too". You can't deny that Bio Ware just changed their minds with Kaidan, making him inconsistent character.
And yes Traynor and Cortez were token gays becouse "accidentally" they happen to be on Normandy together and their almost whole arc is about them being gay love options.
And i want to say it's my opinion only.
I'm inclined to agree that some of the more bombastic reactions in this thread come off as very offended, which makes the accusation that this request would be about avoiding offending people a little odd.
By which I mean, a glaring and transparent unwillingness to accept the reality that including transexual characters is a much riskier choice than not including them.
I disagree. I don't think this board really represents the majority of BioWare fans and I think most people are pretty clued in about where this company stands on lgbt issues and characters. Frankly what's more surprising to me is the glaring and transparent unwillingness of those who don't want lgbt characters in these games to accept that their's is a doomed cause and they are just, at this point, pissing into the wind here. I am not sympathetic to them and I do not agree with your assertion that including a transgender character is a risky choice. There would be noise from people whose opinions are not worth listening to and who are on the losing side of the cultural wars and history.
And yes Traynor and Cortez were token gays becouse "accidentally" they happen to be on Normandy together and their almost whole arc is about them being gay love options.And i want to say it's my opinion only.
Oh my god, two gay people just happen to be employed in the same place at the same time? Stop the presses! Something nefarious is happening!
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