910 réponses à ce sujet

[GaroTD]

Meh, ME should be all about amazing story about space exploration. Let's not make it "social issues in space".

[10K]

An underwhelming transgender character, who's only purpose is to fill BW's diversity quota. Sure why not Inquisition did it! 

[daveliam]

Let's not make it "social issues in space".

ME has always been about social issues in space. 

[N7 Shadow 90]

Meh, ME should be all about amazing story about space exploration. Let's not make it "social issues in space".

A trans person simply existing in a game doesn't automatically mean that that character is about social issues, just as a cisgender person existing in game doesn't mean that that character is about social issues.

 

I agree that characters should be more than just their identity because that's how human beings are, but there can absolutely be trans characters that are just as interesting as anyone else.

[Il Divo]

 

 

What I do think is that transgenderism is a trait that's meaningful in real life and part of the purpose of Science Fiction is exploring real life issues. The fact that it's a futuristic setting doesn't negate issues that we struggle with in real life; it gives us a tool to explore those issues.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think the point being made is that, while a transgender individual could certainly exist, there wouldn't be much to explore regarding their real life struggle, at least by this point in the future.

 

The amount and type of gene modifications available to humanity, the ability to augment our natural abilities, etc, at least to me seems to eliminate what mistreatment transgender individuals might face in our current lives. In a sense, it would be like trying to focus on racism towards African Americans in a setting where such conflicts have completely evaporated. By this point in ME, I feel that we're so past the point of contention. We're mostly, if not entirely, past the realm of human vs human and have entered species vs species. 

[dreamgazer]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think the point being made is that, while a transgender individual could certainly exist, there wouldn't be much to explore regarding their real life struggle, at least by this point in the future.

 

The amount and type of gene modifications available to humanity, the ability to augment our natural abilities, etc, at least to me seems to eliminate what mistreatment transgender individuals might face in our current lives. In a sense, it would be like trying to focus on racism towards African Americans in a setting where such conflicts have completely evaporated. By this point in ME, we're so past the point of contention. 

 

I debated bringing human racism into the conversation, but yes.  All of this. 

[Former_Fiend]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think the point being made is that, while a transgender individual could certainly exist, there wouldn't be much to explore regarding their real life struggle, at least by this point in the future.

 

The amount and type of gene modifications available to humanity, the ability to augment our natural abilities, etc, at least to me seems to eliminate what mistreatment transgender individuals might face in our current lives. In a sense, it would be like trying to focus on racism towards African Americans in a setting where such conflicts have completely evaporated. By this point in ME, I feel that we're so past the point of contention. We're mostly, if not entirely, past the realm of human vs human and have entered species vs species. 

 

I think that the idea that medical technology in the ME universe has advanced to that point is a presumption. We don't know that's true as a matter of fact. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. There's also a presumption in how those advances in technology will affect trans individuals in that as the transition becomes easier and the results of that transition becomes more effective, they'll apparently as a whole decide to pretend the transition never actually happened. I'm sure some trans individuals would do that but others might not.

 

Like I said, a lot of my mentality on this is going through the lens of a cyberpunk genre which, as Dreamgazer pointed out, Mass Effect is not. But I look at a setting like Shadowrun where, even though it doesn't take place as far into the future as ME does, it has medical technology on par with what we know about ME and in many cases, exceeds the medical technology of ME, and all the issues we have today are still issues in the future, albeit to greater or lesser degrees. And in my mind, cynic that I am, I see one as being more realistic. 

 

But going back to the point, as I mentioned earlier, if a lot of the issues facing transgendered individuals are no longer issues in the far off future of the ME universe, fine, great, that's awesome. So why can't we just have a trans individual who's just there and their trans nature is no larger a facet of their character than Miranda's accent was a facet of hers?

[10K]

A trans person simply existing in a game doesn't automatically mean that that character is about social issues, just as a cisgender person existing in game doesn't mean that that character is about social issues.

 

I agree that characters should be more than just their identity because that's how human beings are, but there can absolutely be trans characters that are just as interesting as anyone else.

Sure it doesn't mean the game automatically focus on social issues. But think about it this way. The only way the player will know that character is in fact transgender is if that trans person begin hinting at their background, and from that hinting an entire spiel of that person's struggles will follow. I imagine it would work as in inquisition, a poorly written character just to add an awe factor. Cis-gendered individuals in games don't have to explain themselves to be "recognized" as such. But for someone to be recognized as transgender they have to explain themselves, otherwise it isn't known, and to be an effective trans individual in a game I'd imagine the player must know that that character is in fact trans. Which leads to the horrid writing, and stupid dialogue as seen in Inquisition. This is something that is not needed.

[Steelcan]

ME has always been about social issues in space. 

I'd disagree, ME has always been *insert what the writers want it to be* in Space

[daveliam]

I'd disagree, ME has always been *insert what the writers want it to be* in Space

 

True, including "social issues" in space.  That's really my point.  People who say that they don't want the series (or, even more extreme, video games) to be about 'social issues' really mean 'these social issues', because social issues have been prevalent throughout ME the entire series (and throughout video games for decades).

[KaiserShep]

Romance, romance, romance, romance and ROMANCE.
Geez.

I'll admit. It's one of those things in BioWare's games that I enjoy immensely. It often leads to dialogue that can be pretty fun, cheesy as it may be. Plus, it's one of those few things where your character can abandon the dismal life the plot usually gives him/her, especially when it comes to Bio protagonists in general.

[Steelcan]

True, including "social issues" in space.  That's really my point.  People who say that they don't want the series (or, even more extreme, video games) to be about 'social issues' really mean 'these social issues', because social issues have been prevalent throughout ME the entire series (and throughout video games for decades).

I don't think ME is a good example for a series that puts social issues into the fore front.

 

ME1 maybe as it usually was content to let Shepard (and by extension players) have varied options on issues such as synthetic rights and what role humanity should play in the galaxy, but ME2/3 don't raise issues, they give answers on things like synthetic "humanity" and "strength through unity", since they don't raise issues and examine views its not fair to say that they are about social issues.  Rather these issues are plastered onto the plot with varying degrees of success.

[Olivia Wilde]

no

[dreamgazer]

But going back to the point, as I mentioned earlier, if a lot of the issues facing transgendered individuals are no longer issues in the far off future of the ME universe, fine, great, that's awesome. So why can't we just have a trans individual who's just there and their trans nature is no larger a facet of their character than Miranda's accent was a facet of hers?

 

Maybe we already have. We never actually get to see what any of the characters are packing in the bedroom.

 

Again, for this to matter, it'll have to be brought up and attention be drawn to it. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They've eliminated obesity in the Mass Effect Universe. And children are all born as adults who are then implanted with false childhood memories. Vent boy didn't really exist because no one really saw him except for Shepard who was having a delusion.

[Asari Goddess]

people if they can bring Shepard back to life in mint condition i think at that time they can implant a working reproductive system and breasts on a male and balls on a female. Like seriously do you see the technology they have in the game -.-

[Steelcan]

people if they can bring Shepard back to life in mint condition i think at that time they can implant a working reproductive system and breasts on a male and balls on a female. Like seriously do you see the technology they have in the game -.-

to be fair that required over 4 billion credits, 2 years of nonstop surgery, and the best minds humanity has to offer

[Red Panda]

to be fair that required over 4 billion credits, 2 years of nonstop surgery, and the best minds humanity has to offer

I don't think gender reassignment surgery is out of place in Mass Effect.

 

It's not like they'll cram it down our throats.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

to be fair that required over 4 billion credits, 2 years of nonstop surgery, and the best minds humanity has to offer

And a complete disregard for actual science. 

[Red Panda]

And a complete disregard for actual science. 

That ship already sailed back in ME1.

[The Heretic of Time]

- They aren't happy with the level of transition available with today's medicine.

- They identify as agender/genderless/genderqueer (or one of the other many nonbinary identities) and are happy with social transition (pronouns/name/clothing).

- They have a/multiple medical condition/s which prevent transitioning at a hormonal/surgical level.

- They are transgender and not transsexual, or do not experience dysphoria and thus do not need or wish to transition.

 

Many reasons, all valid.

 

Only reasons 1 and 3 are valid. The other 2 reasons either sound like attention-seeking BS or the ramblings or a mentally ill person.

 

For example, a trans "woman" who refuses to undergo the surgical transitioning expects me to regard her as a woman, even though "she" makes zero attempt at actually being one? How does that make any sense? That would be like me claiming to be an artist and wanting people to respect me as an artist even though I never draw or create anything. It's just attention-seeking nonsense.

[Asari Goddess]

to be fair that required over 4 billion credits, 2 years of nonstop surgery, and the best minds humanity has to offer

 

but that's to bring him back to life wich his mind fully functional and with the same memories from before. what we are doing here is just changing someones genitals in which they do to day except tans women don't have the reproductive system because that's more complex

[Steelcan]

but that's to bring him back to life wich his mind fully functional and with the same memories from before. what we are doing here is just changing someones genitals in which they do to day except tans women don't have the reproductive system because that's more complex

yes but comparing it to the Lazarus project just isn't great

[Asari Goddess]

yes but comparing it to the Lazarus project just isn't great

 

i don't see why. I'm just simply showing you an example an how it is possible especially with stem cell research there can grow them selves balls with in minutes

[Creator Limbs]

 

HOW ABOUT NO