Believe it or not but transgenderism is a mental illness by any medical or legal definition.
I wasn't aware human laws or definitions were regarded as absolutes. My own interpretation of history is one in which we continually revisit older ideas to either improve upon them or eliminate them. Perhaps we should just tell society to stop, then, it seems it's all been figured out.
Amateur psychology night on the BW forum I see.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Amateur psychology night on the BW forum I see.
Not necessarily.
I don't know the answer to it myself... but Johns Hopkins doesn't even do this procedure now. Their head of psychiatry calls it a mental illness too, and especially recommends children going through this to not be encouraged.
No, I label myself "genderqueer" because it's easier to find other people who share my views and with whom I can relate too.
And I'm not particularly "masculine" or "feminine."
And no, you can be skeptical of the gender "binary" without having a mental illness.
Unless you're a machine devoid of human emotions, quirks and personality traits you're most definitely masculine, feminine or a bit of both. You're not secretly a geth are you?
You can be "skeptical" all you want but the fact of the matter is that transgenderism is a mental illness by any medical or legal definition. Your "skepticism" doesn't change that fact.
Just like it doesn't change the fact that gender is very much a binary, you have men and women, masculine and feminine. Putting "binary" in quotations marks doesn't change that either.
I wasn't aware human laws or definitions were regarded as absolutes. My own interpretation of history is one in which we continually revisit older ideas to either improve upon them or eliminate them. Perhaps we should just tell society to stop, then, it seems it's all been figured out.
Human definitions and laws are only changed when new evidence points out that it should be changed. Right now all evidence points towards transgenderism being a mental illness.
Unless you're a machine devoid of human emotions, quirks and personality traits you're most definitely masculine, feminine or a bit of both. You're not secretly a geth are you?
You can be "skeptical" all you want but the fact of the matter is that transgenderism is a mental illness by any medical or legal definition. Your "skepticism" doesn't change that fact.
Seeing as how what is considered "masculine" or "feminine" are completely arbitrary, you can pretty much consider me whatever you want. I, however, don't subscribe to either notion.
And you can't change the "fact" that what society considers a "mental illness" changes based on cultural whims.
Not necessarily.
I don't know the answer to it myself... but Johns Hopkins doesn't even do this procedure now. Their head of psychiatry calls it a mental illness too, and especially recommends children going through this to not be encouraged.
I meant more the applying simple rules to complex problems generally. But maybe I should stay out of it.
(Not sure why anyone would want to put children through something like this, figuring stuff out is part of growing up.)
Seeing as how what is considered "masculine" or "feminine" are completely arbitrary, you can pretty much consider me whatever you want. I, however, don't subscribe to either notion.
And you can't change the "fact" that what society considers a "mental illness" changes based on cultural whims.
I can see someone definitely didn't pay attention during biology. Masculine and feminine aren't arbitrary. They are traits that we consistently see in all species on earth, especially mammalian species, even more so in primates and even more so in humans.
What scientists and doctors consider a mental illness is not changed based on cultural whims, but on hard scientific facts and evidence.
What's next? Are we gonna say that autism isn't a mental illness either? What about pedophilia?
Human definitions and laws are only changed when new evidence points out that it should be changed. Right now all evidence points towards transgenderism being a mental illness.
Did you mean to say they should only be changed when new evidence comes to light?
Did you mean to say they should only be changed when new evidence comes to light?
You're saying that's not the case?
Yes.
As a straight guy I might consider dating a post-op trans woman (and only because I know from first-hand experience that they can do a damn good job these days with sex-change operations). But pre-op "women" are automatically discarded. Why would I want to date a "woman" who is physically a man? I'm not gay.
Then again my gay best friend wouldn't date a pre-op trans "woman" either, so I suppose these "women" are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Not many people want to date with them.
I don't feel sorry for them though, they could just get the operation and be done with it. It's (almost) fully subsidized in almost every western country so money shouldn't be a concern here unless you live in a 3rd world country.
The very fact that some supposed transgender people don't want to transition speaks volumes to me though. If you're really trans then wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to actually be the gender you feel you're supposed to be?
I wouldn't date a trans, pre or post-op. If a (supposed) woman lacks XX chromosomes and an inability to breed via a womb and eggs, then she's ill-suited to be with me.
I can see someone definitely didn't pay attention during biology. Masculine and feminine aren't arbitrary. They are traits that we consistently see in all species on earth, especially mammalian species, even more so in primates and even more so in humans.
What scientists and doctors consider a mental illness is not changes based on cultural whims, but on hard scientific facts and evidence.
What's next? Are we gonna say that autism isn't a mental illness either? What about pedophilia?
So, girl chimpanzees have been proven to like pink? There's scientific proof that long hair is "feminine" and short hair is "masculine?" The choice to wear pants or a dress has been shown to be rooted in biology?
No, it hasn't been. These are arbitrary cultural norms perpetuated by nonsensical people.
And I'd love to hear all of this supposed "evidence" that "proves" transgenderism is a "mental illness."
The thing is, there is no real necessity transgender characters in works of fiction because the writers have full creative control; So if they wants a character to be male or female they just make said character male or female. At most they will have to rewrite certain sections to accomidate the new gender of the character in question.
You're saying that's not the case?
It's obvious that's not the case. There's still a lot of emotion and moral imperative that gets mixed into law to this day, even if it happened way more in days gone by.
Just as an example, there's been a huge push in the US for smaller and smaller classrooms with more and more teachers, but studies have shown that smaller classrooms does not in itself produce a better environment for students, and may even be counterproductive if the classes become too small. The laws pass because they sound nice and comforting to parents, not because of scientific evidence that it's effective.
It's obvious that some law is based on evidence, of course, but I was just questioning the blanket claim.
You're saying that's not the case?
Someone hasn't read The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.
IMO the concept of transgenderism so far in the future is a false problem...with technology they would have everyone change physically to his/her gender of preference, so the entire issue would be non-existent.
/thread
Human definitions and laws are only changed when new evidence points out that it should be changed. Right now all evidence points towards transgenderism being a mental illness.
A half-truth at best.
Laws and definitions don’t change only when evidence dictates. Humans are too emotionally driven for that. They change when those placed in positions of authority to make such changes are in some sort of internal consensus. Also, evidence by its very nature is open to interpretation. Individuals within the same authoritative body might have wildly different views on what the evidence actually means. But, they still have to make a decision, therefore simply majority often wins.
I don’t know enough about the science involved to make any sort of declaration about how to define transgenderism in the eyes of psychology. I do have serious doubts that you’ve collected “all the evidence” on this issue. I also know that throughout my entire life no issues has had “all the evidence” be stacked on one side. The fact that there is even a debate should be evidence enough of this.
I don’t even want to get into how hard it is to get prevailing theories in academia changed (a problem most often pointed out by other academics). A depressing amount of evidence in our scientific community goes unused or unacknowledged. That, however, is a whole other conversation…
IMO the concept of transgenderism so far in the future is a false problem...with technology they would have everyone change physically to his/her gender of preference, so the entire issue would be non-existent.
/thread
There likely wouldn't be issue/problem relating to it, especially medical. Societal problem could still exist, since some concepts seem to be sth that people just can't get over. Even if there wasn't any issue/problem, what would probably be preferable, the character would still be transgender.
So, girl chimpanzees have been proven to like pink? There's scientific proof that long hair is "feminine" and short hair is "masculine?" The choice to wear pants or a dress has been shown to be rooted in biology?
No, it hasn't been. These are arbitrary cultural norms perpetuated by nonsensical people.
And I'd love to hear all of this supposed "evidence" that "proves" transgenderism is a "mental illness."
You're cherry picking. I never said everything about masculinity and femininity is rooted in biology. Only most of it is. Yes, the arbitrary stuff are mostly the result of social constructs, but a lot of the less arbitrary stuff isn't.
Heterosexual men (and I assume lesbian women) are attracted to feminine traits. Heterosexual women (and gay men) are attracted to masculine traits. This is true for all mammalian life on earth.
There is a ton of evidence that supports that transgenderism is a mental illness. One only has to look.
https://en.wikipedia...ender_dysphoria
http://psychcentral....horia-symptoms/
https://www.psycholo...entity-disorder
http://www.nlm.nih.g...icle/001527.htm
http://cnsnews.com/n...rder-sex-change
As far as whether or not being transgendered constitutes having a mental illness, the DSM V removed the term "gender identity disorder" and replaced it with "gender dysphoria." The main motivation for the change was that "Persons experiencing gender dysphoria need a diagnostic term that protects their access to care and won’t be used against them in social, occupational, or legal areas." The DSM V fact sheet (link to pdf) continues, "Replacing 'disorder' with 'dysphoria' in the diagnostic label is not only more appropriate and consistent with familiar clinical sexology terminology, it also removes the connotation that the patient is 'disordered.'"
The main reason the DSM V cites for not removing the diagnosis altogether is that getting insurance coverage for hormone therapy, gender reassignment surgery, etc. requires a diagnosis of some sort; as such, removing the diagnosis of gender dysphoria completely would jeopardize patients' access to care.
You're cherry picking. I never said everything about masculinity and femininity is rooted in biology. Only most of it is. Yes, the arbitrary stuff are mostly the result of social constructs, but a lot of the less arbitrary stuff isn't.
Heterosexual men (and I assume lesbian women) are attracted to feminine traits. Heterosexual women (and gay men) are attracted to masculine traits. This is true for all mammalian life on earth.
As far as whether or not being transgendered constitutes having a mental illness, the DSM V removed the term "gender identity disorder" and replaced it with "gender dysphoria." The main motivation for the change was that "Persons experiencing gender dysphoria need a diagnostic term that protects their access to care and won’t be used against them in social, occupational, or legal areas." The DSM V fact sheet (link to pdf) continues, "Replacing 'disorder' with 'dysphoria' in the diagnostic label is not only more appropriate and consistent with familiar clinical sexology terminology, it also removes the connotation that the patient is 'disordered.'"
The main reason the DSM V cites for not removing the diagnosis altogether is that getting insurance coverage for hormone therapy, gender reassignment surgery, etc. requires a diagnosis of some sort; as such, removing the diagnosis of gender dysphoria completely would jeopardize patients' access to care.
It's only a small nuanced change to make people feel better and less inclined to discriminate against trans people. Gender dysphoria is still considered a disorder and is treated as such. For good reasons too, as you yourself stated, if it wasn't treated as a mental disorder then people suffering from it would not get access to free treatment and free corrective surgery.
That's no doubt the reason why a lot of lesbians are attracted to butch women and a lot of gay men are into drag.
Glad you could clear that up for us.
And a lot of them aren't.
Maybe you should read my comment again:
Heterosexual men (and I assume lesbian women) are attracted to feminine traits. Heterosexual women (and gay men) are attracted to masculine traits. This is true for all mammalian life on earth.
Keyword: assume.
Because quite frankly, there isn't a lot of research available on the biology and behavior of homosexual people and animals, so we can't say for sure if the research and evidence we found on hetereosexual people/animals also applies to homosexuals.
Because quite frankly, there isn't a lot of research available on the biology and behavior of homosexual people and animals, so we can't say for sure if the research and evidence we found on hetereosexual people/animals also applies to homosexuals.
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