910 réponses à ce sujet

[maia0407]

I think we should avoid slavery in the sense that some people want to play Tevinter slavers in Dragon Age. Fuckem. Those assholes should be forced to at be least mildly heroic.. or at least rogue-ish and rebellious. That's just in bad taste. And what kind of gameplay does "slavery" really bring to the table anyways?

We already have the issue of slavery with the Tevintor. Additionally, the treatment of the elves allows us to explore issues of race and class under the 'safe' veneer of a fantasy setting. Gameplay wise, I imagine we could have campaigns to free the slaves or what have you. And, I agree, I don't want to play a slaver.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I would have said this a month ago actually... I'm turning a 180. I'm tired of hearing romance requests. 

 

We're still almost a year and a half from release and romance is one of Bioware's niches. I'd suggest you get over it or develop selective blindness for posts about it unless you just enjoy making yourself miserable (like most people on the internet do).

[SnakeCode]

It's a fringe issue that a small fraction of gamers care about. How about making the games for them. Instead of the few thousand people or so that fit in the niche category of Shooter/RPG/Military Sci-Fi/Transexual Interactive Romance fan.

 

Because they don't sell. Look at Sunset. 

[Former_Fiend]

I think the flip side of the "fringe" "not important" argument is if you're arguing that it isn't important, then what's the harm in including it? If it doesn't matter, would including a transgendered character as a romance option hurt the quality of the game? At the very least, would it hurt it any more than including any romance would, for the romance haters?

 

You can argue to minimize the upside; the transgender population in America is less than a fourth of a percent of the population, last I heard(which was a couple weeks ago); though it's far from an insignificant number of people, and they're not undeserving of representation. But aside from the possibility of them screwing up the writing and turning out a caricature instead of a character, I don't see a particular downside.

[SnakeCode]

That's partly because it's a new console release. Great game though.

 

 

My point is, creating games specifically with a niche audience in mind isn't going to sell because their audience is exactly that. Niche. Bioware know what they are doing, they create a decent game that a mainstream audience are going to enjoy, then they add all of the social justice issues, identity politics and whatever else. The key is that all that stuff is in the game, but the games don't revolve around that content. If it did a large portion of the audience wouldn't stick around. 

[SnakeCode]

I think Bioware is still floating in a niche category, and just veering towards more niche when they start getting political. It's still not all that mainstream. The CoDs and GTAs and Nintendo stuff are selling 10-20 million copies each. And more. That's mainstream. ME games don't get half of that.

 

I'd say that anything that falls under AAA is mainstream, as far as gaming is concerned. DA:I seems to be doing well, sales-wise, it won a lot of GOTY awards from major outlets/websites/publications. I've never met a gamer who hasn't at least heard of Mass Effect. I'd definitely argue that Bioware are mainstream.

[Former_Fiend]

I think they've been styling their games to be that way since ME, but I don't think they're accepted that way. Other "mainstream" boards still make fun of Bioware fans. "Biotards" is the word. I don't know what DAI sales are.. they're pretty vague. I think it's probably done well, but I doubt it's Skyrim levels. To me, that's mainstream fantasy. Another title with 20 million sold.

 

But we're probably getting off subject. I'll let you reply. I'll just read whatever you say.

 

Given my own experiences with the GTA Online community - I'm a rather active player, myself - I can safely say that their opinion of Bioware and Bioware's fandom means less than nothing to me.

[daveliam]

Bioware is certainly AAA mainstream.  Like all other mainstream developers, it has a loyal following and a bunch of haters.  The "niche" that Bioware has is that they do story-based, character-driven RPGS that include romance content, with representation for women and LGBT players.  They are really the only ones that are consistently doing this, although others are starting to see that it not only hasn't hurt their sales, but has brought in a loyal 'niche' market too.  This particular niche market gets mocked a lot online because women and LGBT people get mocked a lot online period.  It's nothing new.  But just because Bioware has a niche market, doesn't mean that they aren't mainstream.  I mean, Mass Effect and Dragon Age are hugely well known and well received series.

 

All that being said, I don't think that the fandom is ready for a trans romance.  I hate that this is where my thoughts are, but it just seems clear to me that it wouldn't be well received.  I think a transwoman, in particular, would really not go over well, even if she was an 'extra' romance (so that she didn't 'take away' from their romance numbers).  I think that they should continue to add in trans characters throughout their games when they feel like it and, eventually, people will become more comfortable with them.  Maybe in time, it won't be such a big deal, but for now, I just can't see it going over well.  I think the first step should be a trans squad member or companion first.

[Former_Fiend]

I don't blame you. I'm a Bioware fan myself, obviously. I don't fit in their perceptions. Nor do I care if I did. I'm just saying... that's mainstream for ya.

 

Still, I think it's reasonable to say that Bioware is one of the biggest, if not the biggest developer that legitimately tackles LGBT issues in it's games. They may not be "mainstream", but they are a major developer, and for some, part of their appeal lies in that representation. 

 

So I don't see them going down the proposed path in this thread as making them any more niche than they already are. I just see it as a logical extension of what they've been doing.

 

The logical conclusion being an option for an explicitly transgender PC.

[Capt_Kangaroo]

NO.

 

To EVERYBODY OUT THERE...., Please STOP POSTING rediculous threads.

 

Cheers

[Former_Fiend]

Bioware is certainly AAA mainstream.  Like all other mainstream developers, it has a loyal following and a bunch of haters.  The "niche" that Bioware has is that they do story-based, character-driven RPGS that include romance content, with representation for women and LGBT players.  They are really the only ones that are consistently doing this, although others are starting to see that it not only hasn't hurt their sales, but has brought in a loyal 'niche' market too.  This particular niche market gets mocked a lot online because women and LGBT people get mocked a lot online period.  It's nothing new.  But just because Bioware has a niche market, doesn't mean that they aren't mainstream.  I mean, Mass Effect and Dragon Age are hugely well known and well received series.

 

All that being said, I don't think that the fandom is ready for a trans romance.  I hate that this is where my thoughts are, but it just seems clear to me that it wouldn't be well received.  I think a transwoman, in particular, would really not go over well, even if she was an 'extra' romance (so that she didn't 'take away' from their romance numbers).  I think that they should continue to add in trans characters throughout their games when they feel like it and, eventually, people will become more comfortable with them.  Maybe in time, it won't be such a big deal, but for now, I just can't see it going over well.  I think the first step should be a trans squad member or companion first.

 

You know, I was going to disagree with you, then I saw the post from the boxing kangaroo, and I thought, "yeah, he's right, they aren't ready."

[Ambivalent]

Hmm I'm all for options but this move will bring unwanted heat to Bioware.

 

PS: But people took Asari (aka hermaphrodite) easier than i can imagine. In ME:A i'm looking for a male voiced Asari in women's body for the outcry all over the net tbh. That's i think "accomplishment of your idea"

[Ridwan]

No thanks.

[Former_Fiend]

Hmm I'm all for options but this move will bring unwanted heat to Bioware.

 

PS: But people took Asari (aka hermaphrodite) easier than i can imagine. In ME:A i'm looking for a male voiced Asari in women's body for the outcry all over the net tbh. That's i think "accomplishment of your idea"

 

Maybe, maybe not. 

 

It would be controversial, to be sure, but controversy means people talking about the game and that generates sales. You might lose some established fans or drive off other potential fans, but you'd also attract fans who'd be impressed by a company taking a firm and bold stance in the current climate. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a net gain to be had here.

[BassStyles]

I don't want Bioware to feel like they have to shoehorn in everyday real world political or social dealings into their games just have every group/agenda/affiliation represented.

 

I'd like Bioware to tell the story they originally had in mind and if that originally included a transgender character, then sure, I'm ok with that. However, with how society (America in particular) has become with media and it's representation, it would honestly feel forced at this point for a transgender character to take a more pivotal role in the story IMO.  

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

lmfao, no ****** way. Why would you want to play as that anyway? It will be no different than choosing male or female. Unless you want your character to have the female model with a male voice looool. Or when your romancing someone and you have to tell them you were born a man. Im done.

[daveliam]

lmfao, no ****** way. Why would you want to play as that anyway? It will be no different than choosing male or female. Unless you want your character to have the female model with a male voice looool. Or when your romancing someone and you have to tell them you were born a man. Im done.

^ didn't read the thread

[BraveVesperia]

This would likely work better as approach than just having first transcharacter in the game that takes LI spot, okay for me, but would likely be lot of outrage.

Yep. I mean, I'd be happy with a trans LI. But considering how some people reacted to Krem (who's a pretty minor character and mentions his gender a grand total of once unless you ask a second time), I think a gradual approach would be better for the first trans character in ME.

[SnakeCode]

I don't want Bioware to feel like they have to shoehorn in everyday real world political or social dealings into their games just have every group/agenda/affiliation represented.

 

I'd like Bioware to tell the story they originally had in mind and if that originally included a transgender character, then sure, I'm ok with that. However, with how society (America in particular) has become with media and it's representation, it would honestly feel forced at this point for a transgender character to take a more pivotal role in the story IMO.  

 

I agree with this, but I think Bioware DO want to include this kind of content anyway, their last couple of games and their respective EU content show that. Like I said earlier, they can make this content as prominent as they wish as far as i'm concerned. As long as they don't try to preach or lecture or "educate" the fanbase. I think that's when it feels forced and cheap.