48 réponses à ce sujet

[ProphetOfDoom666]

After two playthroughs, my first was a female human mage and my second a male dwarf, two handed i would like to play a dw rogue.I created one and it is lvl 8 now just before skyhold.But so far it didn't feel like my dwarf.I had fun with my warrior dwarf right from lvl 1 up to the end.I relly wonder if it is worth to continue and if the gameplay, combat gets more interesting at higher levels.Mage took me until lvl 12 or 13 to be enjoyable for me.Any opinions, ideas...maybe a build suggestion.I'd appreciate some thoughts.

Thanks

[PapaCharlie9]

I prefer Archer over DW, but I have completed an entire PT with DW, so I can offer some suggestions.

Why was your dwarf warrior more fun? Hard to make suggestions without knowing what the goal is. Damage? Wading into the middle of a mob and having all enemies aggro on you (in which case, DW rogue would be a let down)? Skills?

What I found fun about my DW rogue was once I could spam Stealth (upgraded) and Flank Attack (upgraded) all day long, without worrying about stamina or cooldowns, and once I could load up with gear that either buffs Crit or Flanking Damage, I could take down any enemy in a few seconds, barring bosses with Perceptive and anything with a big AoE attack, like brutes. Stealth, maneuver to flank, Flank Attack, rinse and repeat. Then Shadow Strike for a finisher/combo detonator.

That's before specialization. After, it's pretty much which one-button kill method you prefer: Thousand Cuts or Mark of Death. I haven't played Artificer but you should search around in this forum, there are some good discussions and builds for Artificer. But Artificer is arguably better on an Archer, so ... maybe not.

[ProphetOfDoom666]

I prefer Archer over DW, but I have completed an entire PT with DW, so I can offer some suggestions.Why was your dwarf warrior more fun? Hard to make suggestions without knowing what the goal is. Damage? Wading into the middle of a mob and having all enemies aggro on you (in which case, DW rogue would be a let down)? Skills?What I found fun about my DW rogue was once I could spam Stealth (upgraded) and Flank Attack (upgraded) all day long, without worrying about stamina or cooldowns, and once I could load up with gear that either buffs Crit or Flanking Damage, I could take down any enemy in a few seconds, barring bosses with Perceptive and anything with a big AoE attack, like brutes. Stealth, maneuver to flank, Flank Attack, rinse and repeat. Then Shadow Strike for a finisher/combo detonator.That's before specialization. After, it's pretty much which one-button kill method you prefer: Thousand Cuts or Mark of Death. I haven't played Artificer but you should search around in this forum, there are some good discussions and builds for Artificer. But Artificer is arguably better on an Archer, so ... maybe not.

My Dwarf, like i said is two handed or played it two handed.What i enjoyed so much about the compared to my mage..especially the first ten levels or so was the dynamic.With my mage i would sit there and spam basic attacks with the occasional skill inbetween but with my dwarf it was more active.I would charge in dispatch the mobs, watch them attack me with little or no effect.Also the first dragon i killed with my dwarf was the hinterlands one.My whole party died on me numerous times but my dwarf would just shrug off the damage and continue.So in the end i killed the dragon at lvl 12 solo on normal...It was fun! Now the dw rogue feels kinda squishy in comparion of course it is not a tank.But i find it boring to wait for my stealths cooldown to do dual fangs or flank attack...hmm..but i'm just lvl 8 i can't say how it plays on lvl 20 or so.
Btw it is very satisfying to hit something with a big hammer and it explodes into pieces (demon hammer from the black emporium)

[mredders91]

I think you just need more time playing as a rogue. their kind of like mages that they start of slow but get better and better as they go, if you want to use stealth a lot then the assassin spec sound like it would be for you since it has synergy with stealth attacks.

This is the build i run across my Inq and Cole on DW assassin might help you:

http://www.rpg-gamin...33540d53a64a731

[ProphetOfDoom666]

I think you just need more time playing as a rogue. their kind of like mages that they start of slow but get better and better as they go, if you want to use stealth a lot then the assassin spec sound like it would be for you since it has synergy with stealth attacks.
This is the build i run across my Inq and Cole on DW assassin might help you:
http://www.rpg-gamin...33540d53a64a731

Thanks for the link i will try that build now.I'am playing my rogue as i write this.But it probably like the mage...it starts out very boring one dimensional but picks up after lvl 10 or so.I'll come back to share my expierience once i have the specialization etc.

[capn233]

DW did take some time to get used to, and was fairly tedious early game in my experience.  Once you get used to it, and get leveled up, it is pretty fun.  I went Assassin.  In any case, Stealth and Flank Attack is practically all you want to use early game with maybe Evade thrown in (I have never actually tried Parry).  I added Hidden Blades later to my power spam.

 

Twin Fangs is ok, and can get you shatter combos early, but you have to be careful with the targeting.  I essentially replaced it outright with Deathblow, but the utility of that power depends on whether you can actually kill the target with the hit.

 

Melee in general is more fun to me than the ranged combat, and I like DW rogue better than archer despite the stark difference in the early game experience.

[andy6915]

Well what do you want? Aggressive dual wield scrapper, dive into direct combat with no fear or hesitation like a bladed whirlwind? Tempest. Wraith in the shadows, kill silently and the enemy doesn't even realize they're up against 4 opponents instead of 3? Assassin. Deadliest archer Thedas has ever seen, fires arrows hard enough that a dragon feels it? Artificer. I don't want to just throw suggestions out without you saying what it is that you're looking for. Right now you're just saying rogue... Which is not narrowed down enough for any proper suggestions.

[CanadianPeanut]

While I don't usually agree with Andy... We have differing opinions on what is "interesting gameplay". I have to agree with him now. Give us an idea of what you want from your rogue and we can offer suggestions.

DW starts off a little slow, you don't have much health and can't do a ton of damage. While you have the option to build for cc, there's pretty much always a choice that will increase your damage enough that the cc is the "wrong" choice. Stick with it, give us an idea of the kind of gameplay you want from your rogue and we can help you pick a spec.

[draken-heart]

Well what do you want? Aggressive dual wield scrapper, dive into direct combat with no fear or hesitation like a bladed whirlwind? Tempest. Wraith in the shadows, kill silently and the enemy doesn't even realize they're up against 4 opponents instead of 3? Assassin. Deadliest archer Thedas has ever seen, fires arrows hard enough that a dragon feels it? Artificer. I don't want to just throw suggestions out without you saying what it is that you're looking for. Right now you're just saying rogue... Which is not narrowed down enough for any proper suggestions.

 

I do agree with andy. we need more information.

[ProphetOfDoom666]

I do agree with andy. we need more information.

Not sure what to expect from the dw rogue.But i can tell you what i don't want.Siting and waiting for my skills to go of cooldown.I did that with my mage for 70 hours.While i had fun with it the spells it was never as active as my dwarf warrior.So i'am looking for something with low cooldown if possible...least repetitive as possible.Active, dynamic combat and it doesn't need to be the uber dmg dealer.

[andy6915]

Not sure what to expect from the dw rogue.But i can tell you what i don't want.Siting and waiting for my skills to go of cooldown.I did that with my mage for 70 hours.While i had fun with it the spells it was never as active as my dwarf warrior.So i'am looking for something with low cooldown if possible...least repetitive as possible.Active, dynamic combat and it doesn't need to be the uber dmg dealer.

Then tempest is what you want, probably. Active and dynamic combat is the tempest's speciality, and flask of fire will give you all the "no cooldown" you want. Just dive in and tear stuff up. Some people think tempest is repetitive, but I didn't get that vibe from it. I guess they don't like that it doesn't truly give you new attacks, just enhances your overall combat ability. If extra attacks are more important than semi-sustained abilities to you, then assassin well work well too. Both are very active, though I think tempest is more active since its more of a scrapper than a stealther. Tempest definitely gets you closer to the warrior playstyle your dwarf had than assassin would.

[Forsythia77]

I just finished up a DW assassin rogue (I've also done a DW tempest).  I tend to like DW rogues because I like being all up in the melee as opposed to being an archer which is too passive for my play style.  Yes, your rogue is going to be squishy.  And you'll get hit by an archer or rogue and get killed dead on occasion, but the fun of it is the speed.  I  think for me, a lot of my issues with a PT are the created character.  If I don't fall in love with my character the game falls flat and I ditch it - I had a DW rogue female dwarf and she just wasn't working for me so I scrapped the game.  There was something wrong with her look or her movement or her backstory that turned me off of finishing the game (This was before the emporium so I couldn't edit her like you can now).

 

Build wise, I didn't even take mark of death or her special skill on the assassin tree (I was trying to make it challenging).  I did have hidden blades on both of Shay's daggers at the end - four on one and five on the other and guard on hit on her armor.  So most all squishiness was removed from her by the end.  And honestly by the end it wasn't even fair and was just way easy.  My main go to was to stealth, poison weapons, flank attack then spinning blades to really eviscerate a crowd.  I had the actual hidden blades skill but didn't need to use it much since it popped off on the blades so often.  Sometimes I would toss in a fully upgraded jar of bees just for the fun of it. 

 

When I played as a DW tempest, I relied on flask of lightning a lot.   I did that run before the flask of fire exploit was fixed, but I didn't use it often.  I did a lot of flask of lightning and had a really high critical chance on my daggers.  Both of them were fun.  Also had hidden blades on the daggers in that game too.  It's been several months though since the tempest PT, and since I'm an old, I know there is a lot I'm forgetting.  But I literally finished the assassin run this past weekend, so my memory is still good on that. 

[ProphetOfDoom666]

Then tempest is what you want, probably. Active and dynamic combat is the tempest's speciality, and flask of fire will give you all the "no cooldown" you want. Just dive in and tear stuff up. Some people think tempest is repetitive, but I didn't get that vibe from it. I guess they don't like that it doesn't truly give you new attacks, just enhances your overall combat ability. If extra attacks are more important than semi-sustained abilities to you, then assassin well work well too. Both are very active, though I think tempest is more active since its more of a scrapper than a stealther. Tempest definitely gets you closer to the warrior playstyle your dwarf had than assassin would.

Sweet idea...i think if you have 3 good, solid attack skills is enough and the other slots for utility skills etc.What about the sabotage tree? Is there anything useful, fun...i'am using the chain skill right now which is pretty helpful to get closer to your enemies, reposition yourself.Still only 9lvl but i will continue to play this eavening.

[KaiserShep]

I've always loved DW rogue, but Inquisition made me adore the archer. I love the mobility and serious damage I can inflict. I can wipe out enemies at range and evade everything while doing so. With the Assassin or Tempest spec it's pretty fantastic. I was never really interested in Artificer, but from what I can tell it's especially useful, but I have Varric a lot so I don't need it (same for Tempest I guess since I always bring Sera too).

[ProphetOfDoom666]

I just finished up a DW assassin rogue (I've also done a DW tempest).  I tend to like DW rogues because I like being all up in the melee as opposed to being an archer which is too passive for my play style.  Yes, your rogue is going to be squishy.  And you'll get hit by an archer or rogue and get killed dead on occasion, but the fun of it is the speed.  I  think for me, a lot of my issues with a PT are the created character.  If I don't fall in love with my character the game falls flat and I ditch it - I had a DW rogue female dwarf and she just wasn't working for me so I scrapped the game.  There was something wrong with her look or her movement or her backstory that turned me off of finishing the game (This was before the emporium so I couldn't edit her like you can now).
 
Build wise, I didn't even take mark of death or her special skill on the assassin tree (I was trying to make it challenging).  I did have hidden blades on both of Shay's daggers at the end - four on one and five on the other and guard on hit on her armor.  So most all squishiness was removed from her by the end.  And honestly by the end it wasn't even fair and was just way easy.  My main go to was to stealth, poison weapons, flank attack then spinning blades to really eviscerate a crowd.  I had the actual hidden blades skill but didn't need to use it much since it popped off on the blades so often.  Sometimes I would toss in a fully upgraded jar of bees just for the fun of it. 
 
When I played as a DW tempest, I relied on flask of lightning a lot.   I did that run before the flask of fire exploit was fixed, but I didn't use it often.  I did a lot of flask of lightning and had a really high critical chance on my daggers.  Both of them were fun.  Also had hidden blades on the daggers in that game too.  It's been several months though since the tempest PT, and since I'm an old, I know there is a lot I'm forgetting.  But I literally finished the assassin run this past weekend, so my memory is still good on that. 

I hear you with the character stuff.I wanted to make a female elf mage...kinda like Galadriel from lotr.But it turned out it is impossible to make her look like the image i had in my mind.The elves in Inquisition are too skinny and no long hair options for female chars made me scrap the idea of a Galadriel elf mage.So i deleted her after lvl 5 or so, hehe.And that happend a couple of times with other characters ideas.But like you said if it doesn't come out like what i have imagined for it to be i will scrap it and start over with a new character idea.

[andy6915]

Sweet idea...i think if you have 3 good, solid attack skills is enough and the other slots for utility skills etc.What about the sabotage tree? Is there anything useful, fun...i'am using the chain skill right now which is pretty helpful to get closer to your enemies, reposition yourself.Still only 9lvl but i will continue to play this eavening.

 

Personally, my tempest style was as follows:

 

evade

stealth

flask of fire

flask of frost

flask of lightning

twin strikes

deathblow

shadow strike

 

Flask of frost freezes enemies near you, and twin fangs and deathblow and shadow strike all do detonators on frozen or incapacitated enemies. Much of my style was using that fact that all 3 of my skills could detonate, which made flask of frost very useful to me since it meant I could prime and detonate targets by myself and frequently at that. I had a hidden blades masterwork on me, which means a chance of activating it on every single attack... And flask of lightning makes you attack and move at super speed, which meant that flask of lightning was quite deadly most of the time. And flask of fire doesn't need explained, spamming shadow strike (if the enemies health was about 50%) or spamming deathblow (if their health was below 50%) was pretty damned brutal.

 

Didn't bother with poison much. I think that would do better on a non-tempest.

 

edit: read this, if you decide to go tempest. It will help you to get into a tempest mindset.

 

http://forum.bioware...doing-it-wrong/

[ProphetOfDoom666]

I just finished up a DW assassin rogue (I've also done a DW tempest).  I tend to like DW rogues because I like being all up in the melee as opposed to being an archer which is too passive for my play style.  Yes, your rogue is going to be squishy.  And you'll get hit by an archer or rogue and get killed dead on occasion, but the fun of it is the speed.  I  think for me, a lot of my issues with a PT are the created character.  If I don't fall in love with my character the game falls flat and I ditch it - I had a DW rogue female dwarf and she just wasn't working for me so I scrapped the game.  There was something wrong with her look or her movement or her backstory that turned me off of finishing the game (This was before the emporium so I couldn't edit her like you can now).
 
Build wise, I didn't even take mark of death or her special skill on the assassin tree (I was trying to make it challenging).  I did have hidden blades on both of Shay's daggers at the end - four on one and five on the other and guard on hit on her armor.  So most all squishiness was removed from her by the end.  And honestly by the end it wasn't even fair and was just way easy.  My main go to was to stealth, poison weapons, flank attack then spinning blades to really eviscerate a crowd.  I had the actual hidden blades skill but didn't need to use it much since it popped off on the blades so often.  Sometimes I would toss in a fully upgraded jar of bees just for the fun of it. 
 
When I played as a DW tempest, I relied on flask of lightning a lot.   I did that run before the flask of fire exploit was fixed, but I didn't use it often.  I did a lot of flask of lightning and had a really high critical chance on my daggers.  Both of them were fun.  Also had hidden blades on the daggers in that game too.  It's been several months though since the tempest PT, and since I'm an old, I know there is a lot I'm forgetting.  But I literally finished the assassin run this past weekend, so my memory is still good on that. 

Oh and before the black emporium like dlc it was even worse.Cheek bones too high, eyebrows too low i would restart.It is called restartitis.

[ProphetOfDoom666]

Personally, my tempest style was as follows:
 
evade
stealth
flask of fire
flask of frost
flask of lightning
twin strikes
deathblow
shadow strike
 
Flask of frost freezes enemies near you, and twin fangs and deathblow and shadow strike all do detonators on frozen or incapacitated enemies. Much of my style was using that fact that all 3 of my skills could detonate, which made flask of frost very useful to me since it meant I could prime and detonate targets by myself and frequently at that. I had a hidden blades masterwork on me, which means a chance of activating it on every single attack... And flask of lightning makes you attack and move at super speed, which meant that flask of lightning was quite deadly most of the time. And flask of fire doesn't need explained, spamming shadow strike (if the enemies health was about 50%) or spamming deathblow (if their health was below 50%) was pretty damned brutal.
 
Didn't bother with poison much. I think that would do better on a non-tempest.
 
edit: read this, if you decide to go tempest. It will help you to get into a tempest mindset.
 
http://forum.bioware...doing-it-wrong/

Thanks...it seems i will go the tempest route in one way or another.
What do you mean? The flasks make focus combos possible or something?

[andy6915]

Thanks...it seems i will go the tempest route in one way or another.
What do you mean? The flasks make focus combos possible or something?

 

I... Don't know? I Don't use focus abilities really, sometimes I equip one for a dragon fight and only get to use it once for the whole fight. No, what I mean is that detonating a frozen enemy does very significant damage, that's what a detonator combo does. Some skills are glitched so the detonator only does 1 damage, but thankfully none of the rogue skills have that glitch. Detonating a frozen enemy does the high damage it's meant to.

 

Or do you mean combining focus abilities from multiple party members? Again, I don't know what you mean. I know very little about how focus abilities work, no party members ever have them assigned and neither does my own character. I find them to be too limited to be worth using for the most part.

[ProphetOfDoom666]

I... Don't know? I Don't use focus abilities really, sometimes I equip one for a dragon fight and only get to use it once for the whole fight. No, what I mean is that detonating a frozen enemy does very significant damage, that's what a detonator combo does. Some skills are glitched so the detonator only does 1 damage, but thankfully none of the rogue skills have that glitch. Detonating a frozen enemy does the high damage it's meant to.
 
Or do you mean combining focus abilities from multiple party members? Again, I don't know what you mean. I know very little about how focus abilities work, no party members ever have them assigned and neither does my own character. I find them to be too limited to be worth using for the most part.

Yeah okay thats what i meant..the detonator combos etc...they give you more focus points than normal.But you are right a rarely use focus skills it is usually not worth blocking a slot for them.

[PapaCharlie9]

Lots of good comments and suggestions above. The only thing I'll add is this: once you get to high enough level (say, 12ish) and have good enough gear, you should shift away from defensive options and go pure offense. Basically, you can play in a way such that you never, or rarely, take a hit, so why buff defense? Use those slots (gear or skills) for offense and stealth.

 

Make sure you get the Ambush passive from the Subterfuge tree, particularly if you are going to fight dragons.

 

Shadow Strike is pretty satisfying. It's not like a Mighty Blow with a dwarven hammer, but it still has a nice animation.

[tcun44]

Personally, my tempest style was as follows:

 

evade

stealth

flask of fire

flask of frost

flask of lightning

twin strikes

deathblow

shadow strike

 

Flask of frost freezes enemies near you, and twin fangs and deathblow and shadow strike all do detonators on frozen or incapacitated enemies. Much of my style was using that fact that all 3 of my skills could detonate, which made flask of frost very useful to me since it meant I could prime and detonate targets by myself and frequently at that. I had a hidden blades masterwork on me, which means a chance of activating it on every single attack... And flask of lightning makes you attack and move at super speed, which meant that flask of lightning was quite deadly most of the time. And flask of fire doesn't need explained, spamming shadow strike (if the enemies health was about 50%) or spamming deathblow (if their health was below 50%) was pretty damned brutal.

 

Didn't bother with poison much. I think that would do better on a non-tempest.

 

edit: read this, if you decide to go tempest. It will help you to get into a tempest mindset.

 

http://forum.bioware...doing-it-wrong/

 

How do you use FOFrost in your rotation? Trash mobs only? I'm running DW Tempest and have been relying almost exclusively on FOL and FOFire. Not sure how to incorporate Frost.

[draken-heart]

How do you use FOFrost in your rotation? Trash mobs only? I'm running DW Tempest and have been relying almost exclusively on FOL and FOFire. Not sure how to incorporate Frost.

 

I never understood Flask of Frost, really. I mean, ideally, as a rogue you would not want to get hit in the first place. Flask of Frost seems almost pointless unless you upgrade, since I read that it only works if they hit you, and if you play right, most enemies will be dead before they freeze for however long you need.

[andy6915]

How do you use FOFrost in your rotation? Trash mobs only? I'm running DW Tempest and have been relying almost exclusively on FOL and FOFire. Not sure how to incorporate Frost.

Trash mobs? You mean 95% of the game's enemies, not something insignificant (of course bosses are immune to nearly everything). It's simple. See enemy? Put on frost, get near enemy= freeze enemy. Froze enemy? Shatter enemy. See a clustered group of enemies? Then frost is REALLY gonna screw them up. It's not complicated, you're basically a walking winter's grasp. And when they're frozen, all 3 of my direct damage skills will shatter them painfully.

Don't upgrade it though. Really, don't. Save that point. It acting like a damn taunt ON A ROGUE is stupid as hell. Just use it near enemies, don't make it cause you to gain aggro by taking the upgrade. Yeah, the upgrade actually makes FoFr's into a move not with doing because it will be risky. Not sure what the hell they were thinking with that. A better upgrade would have been expanding the range of the freezing field it something. So yeah, no upgrade to it. Without upgrade, great. With upgrade, not worth using.