48 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

I never understood Flask of Frost, really. I mean, ideally, as a rogue you would not want to get hit in the first place. Flask of Frost seems almost pointless unless you upgrade, since I read that it only works if they hit you, and if you play right, most enemies will be dead before they freeze for however long you need.

You read wrong. Enemies near you get frozen, enemies hitting you don't do anything except... Well, taking health off you. So no, hitting has NOTHING to do with it. It turns yourself into a area-of-effect freezing spell, enemies about 4 or 5 meters or so from you have a chance of being frozen (hard to say since the game doesn't actually tell you the radius). It's not a 100 freezing chance, but it is a high chance. And it gives you ice armor. So... It's actually more like a very short range blizzard than a winter's grasp, with an added bonus of giving mage ice armor to you as an extra effect. So it's kinda like 2 abilities from the mage frost tree rolled into one, except the blizzard is shorter range and doesn't do direct damage and the frost armor didn't last quite as long.

Edit :

The description says enemies have to hit you? Weird... That's definitely not the case. I think. Okay, I'm going to load my tempest up and make sure.

[andy6915]

So I somewhat misremembered. The range of it is a lot shorter than I remember, I do have to basically touch the enemy. Well, brush against them. But I don't need to be hit to do it. Here's a 4 second or so video made with a shaky cell phone camera of me coming up behind an enemy who doesn't even know I'm there and getting frozen immediately.

 

 

 

 

Now, having watched that, imagine if I'd followed it up with a shadow strike. He would have been dead before he hit the ground. Now do you see how FoFr is useful?

[PapaCharlie9]

For Archers, Flask of Frost is a no-brainer, assuming you have the Killer's Alchemy passive. Doesn't matter if its primary or secondary effects pay off, it's worth it just for the Killer's Alchemy damage buff. I'd typically start a boss battle with quaff Regen, quaff MO, Flask of Frost. Not sure if all of those count for stacking damage, might get capped at some point, but some of the speedkill videos I watched used that sequence. Some started with Flask of Lighting, so the time taken to quaff two other potions doesn't count as much against your overall damage rate.

 

For DW Rogue in Stealth, its more problematic, since it breaks you out of Stealth. I suppose if you are already outted, running the sequence with Flask of Frost is fine.

 

There's also something to be said to either using it first or last in your flask sequence, for the sake of Ride The Storm. First is usually more controllable, you are more aware of it timing out and can hit the next one with more accuracy. Last has a better chance for the primary or second effects to pay off and, if nothing else, gets Flask of Fire back up sooner.

[andy6915]

quaff Regen, quaff MO

 

Um... What? Did you just combine 2 different languages or something?

 

edit: Google tells me it's a term that DAI fans use for something to do with potions (based on context and your own post). But what that something is? No clue.

[capn233]

Um... What? Did you just combine 2 different languages or something?

 

edit: Google tells me it's a term that DAI fans use for something to do with potions (based on context and your own post). But what that something is? No clue.

 

What google actually tells you is that quaff means "drink (something, especially an alcoholic drink) heartily."

[andy6915]

What google actually tells you is that quaff means "drink (something, especially an alcoholic drink) heartily."

 

I put "quaff Inquisition", which I guess made DAI references to that word the only ones I saw. So he was basically saying to drink the potions.

[PapaCharlie9]

I put "quaff Inquisition", which I guess made DAI references to that word the only ones I saw. So he was basically saying to drink the potions.

Yeah, sorry, didn't know that "quaff" had become a quaint anachronism. It was in regular usage around the D&D table, back in the day.

 

So, translated into modern language: drink Regen, drink MO, activate Flask of Frost. The point is, Killer's Alchemy is a stackable damage buff, so the more you drink, the more damage you do. Kind of like in real life.

[andy6915]

Yeah, sorry, didn't know that "quaff" had become a quaint anachronism. It was in regular usage around the D&D table, back in the day.

 

So, translated into modern language: drink Regen, drink MO, activate Flask of Frost. The point is, Killer's Alchemy is a stackable damage buff, so the more you drink, the more damage you do. Kind of like in real life.

 

Oh, I know. There was another topic in this section in this past week where someone told me tempest was bad and boring, and couldn't be convinced otherwise. One of the arguments I brought up is that it basically powers up tonics and stuff and that mighty offense adds ridiculous damage to a tempest. So yeah, I know all keeping a wide assortment of beverages on hand for a tempest.

[Bigdawg13]

After two playthroughs, my first was a female human mage and my second a male dwarf, two handed i would like to play a dw rogue.I created one and it is lvl 8 now just before skyhold.But so far it didn't feel like my dwarf.I had fun with my warrior dwarf right from lvl 1 up to the end.I relly wonder if it is worth to continue and if the gameplay, combat gets more interesting at higher levels.Mage took me until lvl 12 or 13 to be enjoyable for me.Any opinions, ideas...maybe a build suggestion.I'd appreciate some thoughts.

Thanks

 

You sound a lot like me.  I loved my 2H warrior.  That was my favorite play through, and most mages don't really become fun until later levels.

 

Not sure if rogue has an answer for you.  Tempest is going to be most like the warrior play style, but it lacks visceral feedback such as block and slash or charging bull.  I think it's going to feel like a hollow frail imitation of a warrior.  However, it is a very flashy specialization with lots of eye candy if you are into that thing.

 

I think you will be entertained with archer artificer.  Try out the combination of hook-n-tackle with leaping shot.  As soon as you get certain passives and crit, the damage will reset your cooldowns and fill your stamina bar.  Fallback plan is great for strategy and tactics.  You can use it to refill your health bar, or to trick enemies into falling off cliffs.  Spike trap will knock your enemies into the air, similar to charging bull.  The kernal of the artificer is never having to wait for cooldowns.

 

I would be wary of the assassin spec.  It's based around stealth, and big damage skills which means you will have to wait. 

[andy6915]

Not sure if rogue has an answer for you.  Tempest is going to be most like the warrior play style, but it lacks visceral feedback such as block and slash or charging bull.  I think it's going to feel like a hollow frail imitation of a warrior.  However, it is a very flashy specialization with lots of eye candy if you are into that thing.

 

I think you will be entertained with archer artificer.  Try out the combination of hook-n-tackle with leaping shot.  As soon as you get certain passives and crit, the damage will reset your cooldowns and fill your stamina bar.  Fallback plan is great for strategy and tactics.  You can use it to refill your health bar, or to trick enemies into falling off cliffs.  Spike trap will knock your enemies into the air, similar to charging bull.  The kernal of the artificer is never having to wait for cooldowns.

 

Aren't visceral and flashy typically related? I can't think of anything that is only one but not the other, flashy and visceral tend to go hand and hand with each other.

 

I'm not sure he would like archery. He wants active and dynamic, which as fun as archery is, I don't think it's either of those two things. Honestly, archery is basically a mage (non-KE mage) that does physical damage... And mage gameplay is exactly the kind of gameplay he didn't enjoy. Granted it is true that with a high enough crtical rate that artificer will basically never have a cooldown, which is something he specified as something he wanted. So artificer isn't a terrible choice, except it works best with archery. So it would leave him stuck, a good specialization but to get the most out of it he would need to use a weapon style that will probably bore him, or use daggers and have artificer not work at its best. Not to mention, how is archery visceral? Archery never gave me a visceral feeling. It's all about standing 100 meters off firing arrows from a safe distance and stealthing and fleeing when something gets near, that's not exactly the brutal or direct weapon style it sounds like he wants.

[Bigdawg13]

Aren't visceral and flashy typically related? I can't think of anything that is only one but not the other, flashy and visceral tend to go hand and hand with each other.

 

I'm not sure he would like archery. He wants active and dynamic, which as fun as archery is, I don't think it's either of those two things. Honestly, archery is basically a mage (non-KE mage) that does physical damage... And mage gameplay is exactly the kind of gameplay he didn't enjoy. Granted it is true that with a high enough crtical rate that artificer will basically never have a cooldown, which is something he specified as something he wanted. So artificer isn't a terrible choice, except it works best with archery. So it would leave him stuck, a good specialization but to get the most out of it he would need to use a weapon style that will probably bore him, or use daggers and have artificer not work at its best. Not to mention, how is archery visceral? Archery never gave me a visceral feeling. It's all about standing 100 meters off firing arrows from a safe distance and stealthing and fleeing when something gets near, that's not exactly the brutal or direct weapon style it sounds like he wants.

 

Visceral "feedback".  Visceral describes feedback.  It's an adjective.

 

And I've have agreed with you about the archery not being dynamic until I played artficier.  But you wouldn't know...you haven't played artificer yet.  Hook-n-tackle with leaping shot.  Spike trap.  Strategic use of fallback plan. .... blah blah blah you aren't listening so why am I bothering?

 

Here's a suggestion for you.  Go log in and play an artificer archer from level 1 to 20.  Then come back and talk smack.

[ProphetOfDoom666]

You sound a lot like me.  I loved my 2H warrior.  That was my favorite play through, and most mages don't really become fun until later levels.
 
Not sure if rogue has an answer for you.  Tempest is going to be most like the warrior play style, but it lacks visceral feedback such as block and slash or charging bull.  I think it's going to feel like a hollow frail imitation of a warrior.  However, it is a very flashy specialization with lots of eye candy if you are into that thing.
 
I think you will be entertained with archer artificer.  Try out the combination of hook-n-tackle with leaping shot.  As soon as you get certain passives and crit, the damage will reset your cooldowns and fill your stamina bar.  Fallback plan is great for strategy and tactics.  You can use it to refill your health bar, or to trick enemies into falling off cliffs.  Spike trap will knock your enemies into the air, similar to charging bull.  The kernal of the artificer is never having to wait for cooldowns.
 
I would be wary of the assassin spec.  It's based around stealth, and big damage skills which means you will have to wait.

I played around with the archery tree for a while but two of the best skills are very simular in function and visually.Both are more less stationary sniper skills.So not much dynamic there.I'am not saying archer is bad but it was to static for my taste, much like the mage the first ten levels or so.But i will try the dw tempest route and see how it plays out for me.

[andy6915]

I played around with the archery tree for a while but two of the best skills are very simular in function and visually.Both are more less stationary sniper skills.So not much dynamic there.I'am not saying archer is bad but it was to static for my taste, much like the mage the first ten levels or so.But i will try the dw tempest route and see how it plays out for me.

 

Hey, Bigdawg?

 

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I TOLD YOU SO.

 

Seriously, I told you he wouldn't like archery. I told you it's like a rogue version of mage. I told you it wasn't dynamic enough or visceral enough. And yet, you insisted archery was exactly what he wanted and basically told me I'm too stubborn to listen and to play artificer before I talk smack. Well well well, it seems my smack talking was right.

[andy6915]

Visceral "feedback".  Visceral describes feedback.  It's an adjective.

 

And I've have agreed with you about the archery not being dynamic until I played artficier.  But you wouldn't know...you haven't played artificer yet.  Hook-n-tackle with leaping shot.  Spike trap.  Strategic use of fallback plan. .... blah blah blah you aren't listening so why am I bothering?

 

Here's a suggestion for you.  Go log in and play an artificer archer from level 1 to 20.  Then come back and talk smack.

 

And to make a direct post to you by quoting you, no I will not likely play artificer anytime soon. It's the exact opposite of variable or interesting, it's spamming leaping shot and elemental mines 24/7. Do anything else and you're actively hurting your own character's fighting ability, you either play by the rules of the spec and stick to those moves or you're screwed. And yet you bash tempest for being "use the potions one after another or you're screwed", even though those 3 moves are much more interesting than throwing a bunch of glowing crap or just leaping nonstop. I don't need to make my own character, I have Varric. He has more skill points than my own character and has extremely good armor and Bianca has about the best possible upgrades she can have, so he's not a bad way to test. I've controlled and played him myself and read all there is to read about artificer, well enough that I very much know what I'm talking about. It might be overpowered, but it's extremely boring... Which is almost exactly what you've said about tempest, despite you having less a case with that statement than my own case with my statements. You're stuck using 2 whole moves back and forth, jumping between them each time the other is on cooldown, or else you're not making full use of it. Period. If you're actually not using it like that, then it sounds like I in fact know more about it than you do since you're obviously using it wrong. Artificer is only variable and adaptable if you're playing it wrong, if you're playing it right than it's a complete snooze fest where you're more limited with it than any other specialization in the game.

[ProphetOfDoom666]

I appriciate all ideas, thoughts and every person has a different taste.So big thanks to all people in this thread!

[andy6915]

I appriciate all ideas, thoughts and every person has a different taste.So big thanks to all people in this thread!

 

It's nice to be appreciated. I could use getting a feel-good, today's been annoying. My apartment has been having the roof replaced because of upkeeping, and it's been going on for days now, and today was the worst. Thankfully, it's over after today. Finally, my house will start being quiet again!

[ProphetOfDoom666]

It's nice to be appreciated. I could use getting a feel-good, today's been annoying. My apartment has been having the roof replaced because of upkeeping, and it's been going on for days now, and today was the worst. Thankfully, it's over after today. Finally, my house will start being quiet again!

Lots of dirt, dust and noise?! I'am always glad when such things are finally over.Hope it's not too hot where you live, with the roof and all.The past two weeks here in germany have been way too hot, almost a desert like climate,40 degree!
A few years ago i lived near a big consturction site and it went on for 4 years almost five.Every day dust on the windows and construction noise...it was hell!

[andy6915]

Lots of dirt, dust and noise?! I'am always glad when such things are finally over.Hope it's not too hot where you live, with the roof and all.The past two weeks here in germany have been way too hot, almost a desert like climate,40 degree!
A few yeats ago i lived near a big consturction site and it went on for 3 years almost five.Every day dust on the windows and construction noise...it was hell!

 

I actually just talked to the ones doing it, they're done for the day. Turns out they have a little bit left, but not much. One corner of the building still needs shingles, but the roof has shingles on about 90% of it now. So tomorrow they're putting on the last shingles and replacing the gutter, which should still be a lot less than they've done so far. Tomorrow shouldn't be terrible.

 

But yes, it was a full replacement. They tore the entire roof off to where my attic had sunlight shining in it, replaced basically everything you can replace without changing the actual house structure. I hope they added new insulation while they were at it, that would help with heat and make things easier on my air conditioner.

[S_i_d_e_winder]

My guess is that they could have finished your roof sooner, but they waited until Wicked Eyes Wicked Hearts and Here Lies The Abyss to be completed.

 

[Bigdawg13]

Hey, Bigdawg?

 

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I TOLD YOU SO.

 

Seriously, I told you he wouldn't like archery. I told you it's like a rogue version of mage. I told you it wasn't dynamic enough or visceral enough. And yet, you insisted archery was exactly what he wanted and basically told me I'm too stubborn to listen and to play artificer before I talk smack. Well well well, it seems my smack talking was right.

 

Does anyone else feel like they are suddenly stuck on a elementary school bus?

 

 

If I based my opinion on a class in the first 10 levels, I would have never finished rogue or mage playthrough.  The fact you can move and attack at the same time with a rogue means it is anything but static.

 

I have a question for you Andy.  Do you get far in life shouting at other people when you think you're right?  I bet your co-workers just LOVE you.

[andy6915]

Does anyone else feel like they are suddenly stuck on a elementary school bus?


If I based my opinion on a class in the first 10 levels, I would have never finished rogue or mage playthrough. The fact you can move and attack at the same time with a rogue means it is anything but static.

I have a question for you Andy. Do you get far in life shouting at other people when you think you're right? I bet your co-workers just LOVE you.

This was a delayed reply. So delayed that I've lost the care to even bother by now. And to answer the question, I don't think I was right... I KNOW I was, the topic creator themselves said so.

[Bigdawg13]

I the ignore feature!

 

As a side note, I may try the tempest again...one more time.  A second play through of Rift Mage changed my opinion of that class.  Maybe it'll do the same for Tempest.

[andy6915]

I the ignore feature!

 

Somebody can't stand being wrong .

[Nathonaws]

Melee rogues are a pain to play until you get to Skyhold, mostly because they are very squishy before you can pick up Guard on Hit and craft decent gear. I would suggest playing an Archer build until you get to Skyhold and then respeccing back to melee.