She's shown she doesn't deserve to be in command of those women, she was ruining them as men have ruined (and still are ruining) their recruits with hazing and psychological violence.
Care to elaborate on the latter?
In what way does recruit training 'ruin' people?
How exactly are soldiers supposed to become prepared for combat without ever being taken out of their comfort zone?
This.
Also, that argument about people being singled out for subpar performance is conveniently forgetting that being singled out means exactly squat on its own unless his/her peers proceed to bully him/her for it. So if being singled out is such a bad thing as it's made out to be, that's not something you can only blame the DI for. Stuff like that is by far and wide snowballing peer pressure, the DI simply took the first special snowflake, pressed it into a ball and let it roll down the hill. If by the end of it the snowball has grown too big, it only means there's too many other snowflakes around happy to pick on someone. Does that mean the DI is supposed to get away as if nothing happened? No, of course not, she did start it after all. But laying the blame purely at her feet is plain denial of how things work.
And from the looks of how the group has been improving its performance all the time, the method evidently worked. And if whomever of those people didn't cut it and or think it's too tough, maybe, just maybe they shouldn't have joined the military.
After all, there's a reason that training for military is tough. I'd rather drop out of training and look for another job than be killed because I passed based on standards that don't hold up to actual combat situations.
If you baby your troops than they'll likely die. Although I haven't served, I think that a lot the reason that Drill Instructors yell is to stress out recruits, it isn't done to be mean, but rather to help them learn how to perform under stress. That's how I view that anyway. The officer did nothing wrong and likely had the troops best interest in mind, the firing is bull. I wish the officer luck in finding another job and thank them for their service. I deeply regret that their service was cut short due to stupid politics and people.
You know, I would feel the tiniest bit of pity for them if the US Military wasn't COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.
There are two answers to your nonsense here
1) You don't know what you're talking about, it's the most probable.
2) You know what you're talking about, that makes you a selfish bastard that should coherently risk his ass twice for every soldier that has been mentally tortured or abused during the military training.
Yep, I'm selfish bastard, among the many other things I've been called. I give the truth based on the facts and don't give a damn if people get offended. Don't like your hug box being violated? Pray to your false God to smite me with a wet sponge.
Yep, I'm selfish bastard, among the many other things I've been called.
Why bother others then? (it's rhethorical)
Yes, I pray everyday that even the likes of you develop sanity of heart, because you're blatantly not suited to live within the human race, even if you apparently act in a society that tolerates what you do.
Care to elaborate on the latter?
In what way does recruit training 'ruin' people?
Traning doesn't traumatize people, but abuses do, and it's what this woman has done, if anyone cares to read the full article.
Why bother others then? (it's rhethorical)
Yes, I pray everyday that even the likes of you develop sanity of heart, because you're blatantly not suited to live within the human race, even if you apparently act in a society that tolerates what you do.
Please stop, you're embarrassing fellow theists.
Traning doesn't traumatize people, but abuses do, and it's what this woman has done, if anyone cares to read the full article.
Please give an example of these abuses from the article I linked.
I would love to see these too, because being made to do things that everyone else does hardly counts as "abuse". Being made to run 3 miles in 20-something minutes is not abuse, most people should be able to do that even without military conditioning. Performing 3 consecutive pull-ups is not abuse, that's another thing that anyone who isn't terrifyingly fat should be able to do if they have any kind of muscle.
Reading the article, her only crime was being a good officer. Nobody who isn't a fragile little flower will construe that for "abuse".
Guest_StreetMagic_*
These people don't know the meaning of "the mission comes first". And they'll eventually get people killed, if they get their way.
I would love to see these too, because being made to do things that everyone else does hardly counts as "abuse". Being made to run 3 miles in 20-something minutes is not abuse, most people should be able to do that even without military conditioning. Performing 3 consecutive pull-ups is not abuse, that's another thing that anyone who isn't terrifyingly fat should be able to do if they have any kind of muscle.
Reading the article, her only crime was being a good officer. Nobody who isn't a fragile little flower will construe that for "abuse".
I'm pretty sure everyone else can't run 3 miles at 7:40 pace or do 3 pull ups. Have you seen America recently? I'm not saying it's abuse, by any means. Soldiers in training should be physically fit. But you've vastly overestimated the general populace's capabilities. Especially on the pull ups. Women have a lower center of gravity; I only know of a handful who can do an unaided pull up.
Traning doesn't traumatize people, but abuses do, and it's what this woman has done, if anyone cares to read the full article.
I have read the article and agree that there is probably more to this story.
Its the phrase 'psychological violence' that had me curious what you're referring. Recruits aren't treated with kid gloves, but it serves a purpose.
Would you consider that psychological violence?
Why bother others then? (it's rhethorical)
Yes, I pray everyday that even the likes of you develop sanity of heart, because you're blatantly not suited to live within the human race, even if you apparently act in a society that tolerates what you do.
I don't think you're using that in the way you think you are. Because that doesn't make sense.
I'm sure one day your wish will come true and like the Grinch my heart will swell to twice it's size, or like Scrooge I will help the poor and needy after the Christmas spirit fills me... that may also have been cocaine, but we'll go with Christmas Spirit.
True, I'm not suited to live among humans. I'm actually part of a race of squid people, who dwell in the secret city of Atlantis, on the sea floor, before we rise to take the surface world once out Lord and saviour Cthulhu rises once more.
I'm pretty sure everyone else can't run 3 miles at 7:40 pace or do 3 pull ups. Have you see America recently? I'm not saying it's abuse, by any means. Soldiers in training should be physically fit. But you've vastly overestimated the general populace's capabilities. Especially on the pull ups. Women have a lower center of gravity; I only know of a handful who can do an unaided pull up.
I have seen America. I live in America. I am American myself.
We aren't disgusting fatties like the rest of the world says we are. When I was in middle school and high school, you were slow and would actually have points deducted from your total if you ran 2 miles and it took you longer than 15 minutes (which is less than 3 miles in 23 minutes, but still a good pace). You were a p***y if you couldn't do 3 pull-ups. It's not the most strenuous bunch of activities. It seems like having a lower center of gravity would actually make it easier to perform a pull-up. Maybe not by much, because you're still lifting your whole body weight, but somewhat easier nonetheless.
It's not like this woman is forcing them to perform an entire Rocky training montage, it's running 3 miles and performing 3 pull-ups.
I'm pretty sure everyone else can't run 3 miles at 7:40 pace or do 3 pull ups. Have you seen America recently? I'm not saying it's abuse, by any means. Soldiers in training should be physically fit. But you've vastly overestimated the general populace's capabilities. Especially on the pull ups. Women have a lower center of gravity; I only know of a handful who can do an unaided pull up.
Yeah this. I think people would be shocked how many women can't do 3 pull ups, unless they go the gym or otherwise get the necessary work out in there daily life. Running though shouldn't be that much of a problem.
Guest_Puddi III_*
Please give an example of these abuses from the article I linked.
Lt. Col. Kate Germano, the former commanding officer of 4th Recruit Training Battalion at Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, South Carolina, was found to be "hostile, unprofessional and abusive," according to a command investigation obtained by Marine Corps Times. She was relieved for cause on June 30 by Brig. Gen. Terry Williams, Parris Island's commanding general.
Williams cited a poor command climate and the loss of trust and confidence in Germano's ability to serve in command, according to a statement that was provided to Marine Corps Times. The command investigation, completed June 25 and obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request, states that Germano displayed "toxic leadership" by publicly berating and showing contempt for subordinates, bullying Marines and singling them out for under-performance.
On one occasion, the investigation found, she made comments during a sexual assault prevention brief that female Marines interpreted as victim-blaming, leading some to testify that it would make them feel less comfortable reporting a sexual assault within the command.
Germano also "reinforced gender bias and stereotypes" in the minds of her Marines by telling them on several occasions that male Marines would not take orders from them and would see them as inferior if they could not meet men's physical standards, the investigation found.
It also included the results of a Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute command climate survey taken by 64 members of the battalion in April. The survey found that nearly half of respondents thought the unit did not promote a climate based on respect and trust, and nearly 20 percent of respondents believed the unit did not create an environment where victims would feel comfortable reporting a sexual assault.
The Parris Island command investigation and witness statements paint a portrait of Germano as a driven officer who could be abrasive and aggressive, and doggedly pursued the goal of unit improvement to the apparent alienation of at least some Marines in the command.
The document describes a May 9 Crucible hump conducted by the battalion's Papa Company, which finished about a half mile behind a male recruit company. Witnesses alleged Germano took the company to task in a meeting two days after the hike, saying it was the worst she'd ever seen and the Marines in the company should be as embarrassed as she was about it. She also told the Papa Company Marines company that they were responsible for the negative comments in the command climate survey and that she was tired of being blamed, the investigation states.
If the unit's members "focused on doing the right thing instead of running outside of [the battalion] talking about how mean she was and how horrible the command is, our command climate would be just fine," she told the unit, according to one member who was interviewed.
Another event that illustrates the tension between Germano's attempt at reform and the pushback from her unit came the same month, when she showed the short film "Throw Like a Girl," to a group of new Marines. Created for a Procter & Gamble advertisement that was screened during the Super Bowl, the video illustrates how many take the descriptor "like a girl" to mean weak or ineffective. The class then took a hard-edged turn, according to multiple witness statements, when Germano singled out Marines who couldn't perform three pullups or complete a physical fitness test's 3-mile run in less than 23 minutes.
Making these Marines stand, she told them they wouldn't be able to lead their male counterparts in the fleet, witnesses said.
Allegations that Germano took a "victim-blaming" approach to sexual assault prevention stem from a January brief to officers. Witnesses said she implied that sexual assault is "100 percent preventable" and that "by drinking, you are putting yourself in a position to be sexually assaulted." One attendee said she would not feel comfortable reporting an assault following the brief because she felt it would not be taken seriously.
The investigation found that Germano's personal viewpoints on the issue of sexual assault revealed no malice or bad intent. But, the investigating officer found, her poor choice of words and focus on accountability left room for misinterpretation and left some Marines feeling less safe.
These are all the nodal points, if anyone has time to read without aggressiveness, fine, otherwise it would be nice to not comment.
My favorite part of the article is this:
Allegations that Germano took a "victim-blaming" approach to sexual assault prevention stem from a January brief to officers. Witnesses said she implied that sexual assault is "100 percent preventable" and that "by drinking, you are putting yourself in a position to be sexually assaulted."
I would hope that anyone who isn't clinically retarded understands that "assault is preventable" is not actually victim blaming.
I still don't comprehend how the statement about drinking could be taken as victim blaming either. It's a pretty well-established fact that alcohol lowers one's personal inhibitions and puts them at risk for more dangerous behavior. You would have to be some kind of idiot to take that as blaming the victim when someone says "it's probably a bad idea to get blackout-drunk at the club".
I'm pretty sure everyone else can't run 3 miles at 7:40 pace or do 3 pull ups. Have you seen America recently? I'm not saying it's abuse, by any means. Soldiers in training should be physically fit. But you've vastly overestimated the general populace's capabilities. Especially on the pull ups. Women have a lower center of gravity; I only know of a handful who can do an unaided pull up.
Marine recruits don't leave for boot camp right away. Usually there is several months from the time of enlistment to the date they ship out to the boot camp. During that time they are known as 'poolees' and are supposed to attend regular meetings with their recruiters for PT (physical training), plus they are supposed to be exercising or working out on their own time. If any of them ends up out of shape when they arrive at boot camp its because they were blowing off the poolee meetings (they are still civilians at that point) and/or weren't working out on their own time. Also you have to be able to pass a physical and meet an initial strength test to even be eligible for enlistment. While the standards for the latter are lower than what is required once a person is in boot camp, it does disqualify people who are so out of shape that they wouldn't even stand a chance.
Really anyone who struggles with the physical aspect either went into it unprepared and have no one to blame but themselves, or they just weren't cut out for it. Also not meeting the standards doesn't necessarily get someone sent home right away unless they quit. If people are having trouble keeping up but their DIs think they have potential, instead of being dismissed from recruit training they can be dropped from their training platoon to something called PCP. (Physical Conditioning Platoon). That is up to their Drill Instructors however. PCP is a second chance for either people who couldn't meet the physical standards or who got injured and had to go through some rehab. All PCP does is physical training from sunrise to sunset, and they don't bother with most of the other elements of recruit training. (classes, marksmanship, ect) If a person's physical conditioning improves and they make it out of PCP they get a second chance in another training platoon that is in the training stage where the person was first dropped to PCP. There are people who do a month or two or even longer in boot camp than the others. My platoon picked up a guy on our third week or so who had been there for three or four months already because of an injury and time spent in PCP.
This is definitely sexism but pinpointing exactly what makes it sexist is a little tricky. but is it sexism because a woman was fired or is she the one who is sexist for questioning the competence of her female recruits? One thing is certain however, this is all the patriarchy's fault!
I have read the article and agree that there is probably more to this story.
Its the phrase 'psychological violence' that had me curious what you're referring. Recruits aren't treated with kid gloves, but it serves a purpose.
Would you consider that psychological violence?
It's the kind of whining that you hear about in FInland every year. Many of the guys who end up in the service haven't made their beds, washed their clothes or even tied their shoelaces without their mommy's help before going in. Then when someone looks at them bit funny or orders them to do something or scolds them a bit, they call mommy. Mommy calls a local newspaper and says how "horribly they treat my lil Timmy" in the military.
People are far too soft skinned, in Finland's case it is bit more acceptable since it isn't voluntary, but if you join voluntarily and complain about things like that, you should just tap out and go home. It isn't your place then, but it seems to be the case in many of these types of women. Wherever they go, they expect things around them to adapt to them and not the other way around.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Mommy calls a local newspaper and says how "horribly they treat my lil Timmy" in the military.
I'm amused that you have "little Timmys" in Finland.
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