129 réponses à ce sujet

[Bfler]

Yea. Typical case of equal rights for women, as long as they don't have to suffer the same torment like the men. Then they are suddenly sweeties, who have to be handled with kid gloves.

The same shi.t like in case of my cousin, when she went to army. At first she had a big mouth, then after some exercises the tears rolled down and she suddenly had some bodily defects, which lead to indoor service and finaly the dismissal.

[God]

Americans... smh

 

Being the superpower of the world and global leader does attract critics.

 

Everybody wants a piece of us. 

[God]

There are two answers to your nonsense here

 

1) You don't know what you're talking about, it's the most probable.

2) You know what you're talking about, that makes you a selfish bastard that should coherently risk his ass twice for every soldier that has been mentally tortured or abused during the military training.

 

I have some (SOME) credibility on here, specifically relating to military matters due to my own experience (a lot more than yours).

 

I apply your first point to you. 

 

You don't know what you're talking about. At all. 

[God]

Personally I think there are three issues here which seem to be getting conflated:

 

Firstly, theres the question of equal treatment. For me, in an organisation such as the army - especially for front line soldiers - then there definitely should be the same treatment to both men and women, and the same requirements of them. The nature of the job in question means that being able to meet the needs of the army in terms of your physical ablities is far more important than being sexually/religiously/ethnically etc. diverse. If being able to muster a sufficient number of suitably capable soldiers requires that the army consist overwhelmingly of men, then so be it.

 

However, there's a second matter which has nothing to do with the fact the the people in question are women, and thats the question of whether the aggressive "drill sargeant nasty" style of training is the most effective way to produce good soldiers. I know many western militaries - although, I've read that America is being slower to adopt such principles than many European nations - are moving away from the traditional, dehumanising form of training which aims to break the recruits down and reforge them into soldiers, instead focusing on a more positive approach - not beacuse of "whining", but beacuase they believe it makes for better troops. An environment in which you are being constantly belittled and abused might be good for churning out men to point a gun at the enemy, but it is not conductive to producing the kind of soldier our militaries want these days, nor is it conductive to forming good relationships and bonds within a unit of men (and/or women). it's not about changing the overall requirements to pass training, but the methods used to get the soldiers to the point at which they can pass. And don't misinterprest me here, I'm not syaing that soldiers need to be coddled or anything, training is and indeed must be hard. But subjecting them to constant emotional abuse during the training is not the best way to get them through it, and reflects very badly on those running the training. From that article, it seems that this particular training was done under the old style.

 

Finally, the third matter is whether the officer in question's exact actions were actually acceptable regardless of the overall culture of the training regime the soldiers were being put through. I don't know what the exact regualtions and such covering the US Marines are in these situations, so I can't say one way or another.

 

Uh....

 

This isn't what the military does at all. I have plenty of first hand experience in this regard. 

 

I honestly think, from my own perspective (and it is rather qualified) that this Marine was let go for petty reasons from people who couldn't hack it. 

 

If you didn't come out of training without some loss of humanity or came out without a mild form of PTSD, you weren't trained right. 

[God]

Nothing like talking with your battle buddy then watching them perk up and keep up tbh. I would have done better but I paced myself more in BCT than I do now. Didn't wanna risk injury or anything so I didn't have to go to sick call. Now I run 2 mile in 14.6 minutes, I've been trying to get it down to 14 exactly but life likes to throw paradoxes at you.

At least Fort Sill didn't have high humidity, but Oklahoma still sucks.

 

I did notice that the drill sergeants that were the toughest on recruits, cared the most about them.

 

Damn trainees in that article sound like they need to go make me sammiches instead. I'll get more use out of them.

 

Call me a blue falcon, but I always focused more on my own improvement more than my battles. Then again, I didn't really get prime picking's for them. The first Joe was a fat buffoon who tried to hang himself with his bootlaces and a wire dress hanger. 

 

BCT is about pacing yourself, and for me, it's about becoming a Soldier, and a good one. I had OSUT with those fuckers at Ft. Chill (Oh yeah baby, same Basic!), and I was more worried about looking out for myself than the other Joes. I was also the baby of the entire Company, 17 years old with the next youngest guy being about 21 or 22.  

 

But you're absolutely correct. The toughest Drill Sergeants were the best, by far. They made you work, and they made you bleed, and they made you feel like ****, but they showed you what you could be, what you would be. Also, in my opinion, many of the best Drill Sergeants were female. They were always the meanest, because they always felt they had something to prove. And they did. I'd pay good money to see a female DS rip these 'Marines' a new one, and show them the real definition of misery and abuse. 

 

ROTC was a lot different, but no less demanding in many ways. I can tell you a lot about Officer training on that front. Officership requires a lot more of an authoritative and individual ideology than that for Enlisted. You lose that groupthink and ability to really feel as one with a unit. 

 

Back to the Marines who were whining, they should be stripped of their title of Marines and forced to wear '******' on their uniform instead. If they can't take it, then they shouldn't be in the position. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. 

 

You're a Marine. A professional, bona-fide killer. Your job is to kill people. How are you supposed to do that effectively or efficiently if you aren't strong enough to handle mental and emotional "abuse"?

[Commander Rpg]

I have some (SOME) credibility on here

You're a professional jabberer and I give you credit only for that.

[God]

You're a professional jabberer and I give you credit only for that.

 

At the end of the day, I'm asking people to take my word for it on here. I could post my name and official documentation (I've repeatedly informed others about my own service history, qualifications, and rank), but I'd prefer not to have the PERSEC violation headache to worry about, even if no one I work with (or for) is likely to find out about it. It is the internet after all. People tend to build themselves up. Granted, I know more than a few people here who can verify who I am and what I do.

 

But trust me when I say I know enough that you'd be wise to simply stop throwing around baseless opinions. I give you enough credit that you won't go on a tangent that might make you look more foolish lest you provoke responses for which you are totally ill-equipped to argue against.

[In Exile]

If you didn't come out of training without some loss of humanity or came out without a mild form of PTSD, you weren't trained right. 

 

Do you genuinely think this produces effective soldiers? It sounds, on the face of it, like the kind of thing that's counterproductive. 

[Dio Demon]

Do you genuinely think this produces effective soldiers? It sounds, on the face of it, like the kind of thing that's counterproductive. 

Losing your humanity is probably the safest way to maintain your sanity in active combat. You can kill without regret.

[NeonFlux117]

Lots of Keyboard warriors in this thread.

[Fidite Nemini]

Do you genuinely think this produces effective soldiers? It sounds, on the face of it, like the kind of thing that's counterproductive. 

 

It does produce effective soldiers.

 

Because let's not forget, healthy human minds with a good conscious usually make for bad soldiers.

[God]

Do you genuinely think this produces effective soldiers? It sounds, on the face of it, like the kind of thing that's counterproductive. 

 

If you're strong enough to handle it, then absolutely. It's in the Soldier's Creed: " I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills"

 

This is taught to mean that you're a person who has a strong mental and/or rational center, capable of setting duty apart from feelings. You're expected to be mentally on top of things (a Soldier is as much taught to be a warrior of the mind as much as a PT stud, though YMMV on whether this is effective or not in every case). You follow a military bearing that can see you keeping a calm emotional center through the middle of a hurricane. And you follow the ideal of 'Death may be unavoidable, but losing your cool is unacceptable'. 

 

Teaching a person to not see themselves as a person, as a human, and instead teaching them to view themselves as a Soldier is more effective.

 

A Soldier (or a Marine, an Airman, or a Sailor) is considered an ideal that lies above that of the common human. It's not a view most really hold onto anymore, and it is arrogance to say it, but in many ways, you're sacrificing your humanity (to an extent) to become something greater. You're generally thought of as a cut above the ordinary. That's the ideal anyway, and as I said, YMMV on whether this is the case or not, or whether it can or should be.

 

It does produce effective soldiers.

 

Because let's not forget, healthy human minds with a good conscious usually make for bad soldiers.

 

I personally don't look at things with a human mind anymore. I still have it, but I've come to a point where I think it's a distraction. Emotion isn't worth my time. 

 

That said, I wouldn't say that its inherently unhealthy. It's effective for what I do, and tangential to how I view the world. I won't say that every warrior is like this either. Some have a more patriotic view, some have a more humanitarian or idealistic view, some have a jaded or cynical view, and some, like me, take a more detached and pseudo-sociopathic view. And still others treat it as another occupation or career no different than any other. I hold that view as well. 

 

At the end of the day, I don't worry about the human or moral cost of what I do. It's simply not a concern or consideration for me. And I do believe that having such a view can be advantageous in many contexts.

[God]

Lots of Keyboard warriors in this thread.

 

There sure are, slick.

[Torgette]

So today's shooting took place a little over an hour away from where I live, so thoughts go out to the 4 Marines killed.

[The Devlish Redhead]

So today's shooting took place a little over an hour away from where I live, so thoughts go out to the 4 Marines killed.

sh*t another one...... They seem to happen often.

[Katiefrost]

In view of this and other indicators:


I hope congress will reconsider this:


http://www.usnews.co...the-us-military

[The Devlish Redhead]

Thank you for the videos.. I feel so bad for the people affected.  Crazies everywhere.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

That firefighter thing i mentioned. 

[God]

In view of this and other indicators:


I hope congress will reconsider this:


http://www.usnews.co...the-us-military

 

1) Of course, you get all these wannabe wangsters screaming 'Alonso Snackbar'. It's really starting to pick up around here. I shouldn't say more lest I provoke the ever-so-politically-correct mods, or even the SJW's who think we deserve what happens.

 

2) Of course there are budget cuts. But why fund the services and their families when we can keep trying to get the F-35 in the sky? I'm sure if we keep throwing money at it, it'll start flying. Honest! It's not a complete waste!

[Torgette]

Thank you for the videos.. I feel so bad for the people affected.  Crazies everywhere.

 

What's also unfortunate is that the guy who did it was very well-liked and an electrical engineer working for TVA (a very stable job with a lot of opportunities). The only thing you could point to is that his family is from Palestine and his father was investigated for ties to extremist groups in the past (though nothing ever came of it). He did get a DUI 3 months ago, I guess he just snapped?

[Katiefrost]

In the beginning:

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

 

Aaaand because i want to.

[God]

I want her badly.

 

She's wearing a Dexter shirt.

[Uccio]

Ah, back in the day I recall how we couldn´t wait to get out of the NCO school to finally bully the new recruits. Standing in the snow knee deep in your underwear shouting notification behind the barracks was a good incentive among other things. These days it is all so clean and protected.

[Han Shot First]

In the beginning:

 

Great video, even though it takes place in Hollywood.

 

Spoiler

Parris Island is where its at!   

 

New arrivals are in for a rough time. They spend about the first 3 days without sleep and with a bunch of screaming maniacs in their faces.