27 réponses à ce sujet

[Ricksmiley]

Just what the topic says. When should you give it up and aim for more critical chance?

[Courtnehh]

Around 10% in my opinion, don't waste anymore than 1 upgrade slot or ring slot. You don't become a better player if you're facetanking everything relying on heal on kill but some slight HOK should be there for when mistakes happen and for the occasional self revive 

[Sir Perkins]

Higher promotes the less you need ..my promotes are abysmal 18.20.20 ... have at least 20 hok on any kit to ensure max survivability ..can go up to 50 hok on some kits but no need except maybe nightmare which havnt played much of yet..

[Courtnehh]

Also bare in mind some mages get death syphon which will give you 10% of your health and mana back if anyone in the party gets a kill. Try what Sir Perkins says with maybe a little higher HOK then when you're comfortable try reduce it so you're just using one upgrade slot, that way you can put on more damage equipment/upgrades. The more damage you do the easier it will be to land the finishing blow so the more HOK you get indirectly

[ParthianShotX]

My archer has obscene HOK with rings and weapon together.  It almost feels like cheating on the lower difficulties but because he's a bit squishy seems justified at higher difficulties.  My legionnaire, otoh, needs less.

[Ricksmiley]

Around 10% in my opinion, don't waste anymore than 1 upgrade slot or ring slot. You don't become a better player if you're facetanking everything relying on heal on kill but some slight HOK should be there for when mistakes happen and for the occasional self revive 

So 50% is too much huh? Was thinking so but my promotes are low and I dont like to die. I want to be the one tea bagging not the other way around.

[Geth Supremacy]

Around 10% in my opinion, don't waste anymore than 1 upgrade slot or ring slot. You don't become a better player if you're facetanking everything relying on heal on kill but some slight HOK should be there for when mistakes happen and for the occasional self revive 

 

While I am of the mind the Reaver and the Avvar can't have too much (if you have the highest stats and you are killing everything this obviously doesn't apply...I just play with people who will steal your kills so you WILL die.  I can't be mad cuz I will do that too ). As for everything else this.  I see people crutching on HoK all the time.  I mean play the game and have fun.  If you want to gimp your characters and go face tank those brutes and archers hey buddy...more power to ya.  Lets get this match over with so I can get my levels and get back to farming weapons.  Lol.

 

I remember one time I joined a friend in a match that had an AW with them.  Started having a little conversation about the game and I was informed that its all about the Pyre of the Forgotten on the AW modded for that HoK.   .  If it works for people I don't say anything though.  At the end of the game he was still standing which is more than can be said for most people I happen to see for the first time so good on him. Just...hahaha

 

My best answer to this question is however much it takes for you to make it from font room to font room without dying, but without being so absurd you look like a joke and also gimp yourself on other valuable stats like crit chance/damage or whatever else.  Might be a lot at the start and then as you get better at the game, characters, and get stats it will start going down.

[Courtnehh]

It's definitly trial by error, I'm just concerned that newer players won't have many materials to be able to play around with HOK too much with their weapon upgrades. That imperial vestment cotton is rare o.o personally I've never gone over 20%, even when I started with low promotes. I see it as the more damage upgrades you have the more likely you are going to be able to get that finishing blow, making your initial 10%-20% more efficient at healing you

[Ricksmiley]

Pyre isnt that good anymore. Especially with the 2 new staffs.they have grip and blade slots to upgrade too. Cotton is way too rare imo. I have all my weapon mods I need but i remember starting out i couldnt even get enough base cotton to do what i wanted lol. My skywatcher has i think 33% or something like that. So I go crit rings instead of hok rings on my warriors. Same with my mages. With the scepter and the +guard one i cant remember the name of right now. both with grips and blades for hok and attack%. But for my rogue's the HoK rings are very nice as I only run 1 dragon dagger and the +guard dagger. Archers are also no problem with hok now with the new chest drop bow. Horrible with names sorry lol. Im assuming 2 crit chance rings would be the right decision when the HoK rings arent needed right? 20+ promotes right now. Still pretty low. Lots of dragon runs early without promoting trying to get the dragon weapons before 1.09 came out.

[Yallegro]

I'd say once you have 25% heal on kill you could consider putting your investments elsewhere

 

idk what courtnehh is saying about 10%, there's no way the equivalent 10% attack increase or critical chance increase is going to be better than Heal on Kill that early. Maybe if you like comfortable farming, idk.

[Courtnehh]

I'm saying do what he feels is comfortable but don't have too much, the more you have the more you depend on it. It all depends on how much you get hit, if you read what I said you'd see I said to avoid you face tanking everything. It's encourages you to develop your play style instead of lol I'll charge here spam and heal it back.

[Proto]

lol I'll charge here spam and heal it back.

 

But, that works just fine?!

[Courtnehh]

But, that works just fine?!

On lower difficulties where it's easier to kill things

[Yallegro]

On lower difficulties where it's easier to kill things

 

Assuming that wasn't sarcasm, the harder it is to kill things the more important your heal on kill becomes.

 

Not everyone has a strong well organized party that can mitigate all damage

[Courtnehh]

Assuming that wasn't sarcasm, the harder it is to kill things the more important your heal on kill becomes.
 
Not everyone has a strong well organized party that can mitigate all damage

So again you completely ignore what I said about whatever is comfortable, what you need to remember for newer players is that the cloth you need to give your weapons heal on kill is not common. Putting 25% on each of your weapons isn't an easy thing to do, especially when that person gets a new weapon and has to do that all over again. The lowest a player can personally get away with the better. Raise your damage with more common materials, do more damage, get more kills, heal more by doing more.

 

OP you might find you need more HOK on certain classes than you do others based on how good your survivability is with that class/what gear you currently have.

[Yallegro]

So again you completely ignore what I said about whatever is comfortable, what you need to remember for newer players is that the cloth you need to give your weapons heal on kill is not common. Putting 25% on each of your weapons isn't an easy thing to do, especially when that person gets a new weapon and has to do that all over again. The lowest a player can personally get away with the better. Raise your damage with more common materials, do more damage, get more kills, heal more by doing more.

 

OP you might find you need more HOK on certain classes than you do others based on how good your survivability is with that class/what gear you currently have.

Well now you are just being defensive

 

I'm saying do what he feels is comfortable but don't have too much, the more you have the more you depend on it. It all depends on how much you get hit, if you read what I said you'd see I said to avoid you face tanking everything. It's encourages you to develop your play style instead of lol I'll charge here spam and heal it back.

 

Oh yes, do whatever is in your comfort zone, everything is dependent and relative lol

 

OH BUT don't "facetank" a.k.a have a lot of HoK because people who do that are dumb and have no playing style

 

yeah right

[Courtnehh]

Well now you are just being defensive

 

 

Oh yes, do whatever is in your comfort zone, everything is dependent and relative lol

 

OH BUT don't "facetank" a.k.a have a lot of HoK because people who do that are dumb and have no playing style

 

yeah right

No I'm stating a limitation to new players like you did before, it might not even be feasable to have enough cloth to do that.

 

It encourages player development, how much you need is dependent on how much damage you take, some classes are able to reduce damage taken through guard/barrier/illusive so the player might need less on those classes. It also depends on how well you're able to play a class.

 

That's not what facetanking is at all, with loads of heal on kill you don't worry about your positioning or tactics on lower difficulties because you simply don't need to. You're able to run in, take all the damage and heal it back because enemies are easier to kill. Then when it comes to upping the difficulties to NM for example you make it harder for yourself because you just can't use that playstyle successfully without high promotions or someone throwing barriers over you.

 

Playing with no tactics or teamwork will make latter difficulties much harder for players with low promotes, I have never gone higher than 18% HOK since I started this game with no promotions and the only class that was on was my avvar with a dragon maul which comes with that.

 

So yes, it depends on what the player is comfortable with. It's not standard across the board.

[Yallegro]

Well obviously classes like the keeper or the arcane have a reduced need for HoK and classes like the assassin need more of it.

 

But calling HoK a game breaker feels just redundant.

 

Staying on a low difficulty with lots of HoK is just as dumbing as staying on a low difficulty with strong gear or a high level.

 

In the end the advice to take on more HoK invites people to take on greater challenges, even if they don't.

 

I don't see how calling HoK the best stat is going to make noobs spend it all on their Hossberg Twainer, even noobs with only a scrap of common sense would hoard it to put it on something good.

[Courtnehh]

Well obviously classes like the keeper or the arcane have a reduced need for HoK and classes like the assassin need more of it.

 

But calling HoK a game breaker feels just redundant.

 

Staying on a low difficulty with lots of HoK is just as dumbing as staying on a low difficulty with strong gear or a high level.

 

In the end the advice to take on more HoK invites people to take on greater challenges, even if they don't.

 

I don't see how calling HoK the best stat is going to make noobs spend it all on their Hossberg Twainer, even noobs with only a scrap of common sense would hoard it to put it on something good.

So then flat out saying 25% isn't necessary.

 

When did i call it a game breaker?

 

It seems as though you're the one saying HOK is the best stat from what you just said there, more damage would also invite someone to take on greater challenges.

 

Hey now, we're here to help people not say that if they don't know they're noobs. If a player doesn't have high tier uniques yet but has a weapon they think is good and decides to spec that weapon to reach your '25%' HOK then they would have wasted it as soon as they found a replacement.

 

Which brings me back to my origional point that how much HOK you need is situational to the character you play and how much damage you're actually taking. Why would I need to heal 25% of my HP from each enemy if my health bar hasn't gone down by 25%, then that extra HOK that could be specced into damage is wasted.

[Varbind]

I usually run about 25-30 percent HOK and I have somewhat decent promotes: 35/90/35

 

I dont want to speak to low level stuff because you can run anything there and succeed. If fact you can make the argument that too much damage at low levels is bad because you one shot things and lose support xp. Anyway on to Nightmare.

 

At that level I really believe you need good HOK as a single mistake (not avoiding a horrors spine attack) can rob you of your barrier and most of your health. If fact I find it is quite frequent that guardian spirit will kick in and now I have a barrier and no health. I need to get that health up quickly so that I can afford another mistake, thus higher levels of HOK.

[Courtnehh]

I usually run about 25-30 percent HOK and I have somewhat decent promotes: 35/90/35
 
I dont want to speak to low level stuff because you can run anything there and succeed. If fact you can make the argument that too much damage at low levels is bad because you one shot things and lose support xp. Anyway on to Nightmare.
 
At that level I really believe you need good HOK as a single mistake (not avoiding a horrors spine attack) can rob you of your barrier and most of your health. If fact I find it is quite frequent that guardian spirit will kick in and now I have a barrier and no health. I need to get that health up quickly so that I can afford another mistake, thus higher levels of HOK.

I'm glad you have found adequate heal on kill to suit your playstyle.

[Varbind]

I'm glad you have found adequate heal on kill to suit your playstyle.

 

I agree with your point that it has to be individualized as so many factors play into it. I just wanted to add another voice that spoke to higher levels so that the OP can make an informed decision.

[Courtnehh]

I agree with your point that it has to be individualized as so many factors play into it. I just wanted to add another voice that spoke to higher levels so that the OP can make an informed decision.

Absolutely brother The more people that contribute the better, I wasn't being snotty with that comment just so you know XD

[Varbind]

No worries Courtnehh

 

I wonder as I get more constitution (I am working on that now) if I will find the need for less HOK. Higher hps means each percentage returns more health. If say I had 100 con I bet I would not need 25% HOK.

 

I would bet that if you look into it you would see an inverse relationship between the two values.

[Courtnehh]

No worries Courtnehh
 
I wonder as I get more constitution (I am working on that now) if I will find the need for less HOK. Higher hps means each percentage returns more health. If say I had 100 con I bet I would not need 25% HOK.
 
I would bet that if you look into it you would see an inverse relationship between the two values.

That's likely, you take 0.5% less melle, ranged and Magic damage per warrior, rogue and Mage you promote so that will also factor into it regarding constitution you gain an extra 5 HP per promotion, 6 if you're playing the katati