52 réponses à ce sujet

[Viking]

The question is simple: when we meet Flemeth and Kieran in the Fade, we see Flemeth taking something from his body - the Old God Soul? -, so was wondering what does she take exactly.

 

At first I thought was the Old Gold soul, but if she could just take it and leave Kieran, why just few seconds ago she asked Morrigan to take the "whole" boy? I mean, if was enough the last thing she made to take the soul, why she wanted the whole Kieran?

 

(Sorry for my english).


Edit: and in general, what do you think is safer for Morrigan? To drink from the Well, or to let drink the Inquisitor? (I would sacrifice with no problems the Inquisitor for her).

[Reznore57]

She  only wanted the Old God soul , she was just trolling Morrigan for the Lulz.

In some cases , Morrigan had her killed in Origins even if it didn't happen , she spend her time telling people how awful her mother is and basically Flemeth is a monster.

It just amused her to see Morrigan pee her pants a bit.

 

More seriously Mythal is known to test people , if their intentions are pure , if their resolve is strong enough blablabla...

Flemeth could do whatever she felt like and there was no stopping her , she was just testing the water.

[Excella Gionne]

She took the old god soul. If she took his soul, he would have died too. Morrigan specifically states that Flemeth wanted the Old God soul and that she has taken Kieran's destiny with her.

[Viking]

I'm still confused...

 

If what she took in the end - that blue thing - was the Old God Soul, and if she was able to get it in a second, without hurting anyone, why she wanted to "steel" Kieran? Is really like Reznore said? Just to "troll" Morrigan?

[AlexiaRevan]

maybe she wanted to prepare the boy , since the loss is real and he would feel it . 

[Yaroub]

Edit: and in general, what do you think is safer for Morrigan? To drink from the Well, or to let drink the Inquisitor? (I would sacrifice with no problems the Inquisitor for her).

I salute you.

[Magdalena11]

The way Flemeth takes the old god soul from Kieran, I wonder if she's doing something like a warden does when he kills an archdemon.  She can survive it, because that's how she transfers her essence from one generation to the next, or hides a piece of her soul inside an amulet for Hawke to take to Kirkwall.

 

Then, when Solas assumes her essence, I wonder if he's also taking a piece of the old god soul too.  Or it could be that by assuming the soul, it just becomes an intertwined part, like possession by a demon.

[Lee80]

It is a somewhat interesting thought I had that if Solas really is a huge part of the next dlc.  Will the old Soul presence have an effect on the outcome?  The old god soul could potentially corrupt Solas beyond saving, or at least make a potential boss fight with him harder.  

[Sunnie]

Kieran is nothing more than a prop in Inquisition. Making him a plot piece in a DLC would be all screwy because he doesn't exist in the majority of the Origins play-throughs. In order for that to work, they would have to force the Dark Ritual on every warden in Origins. That would really tick the US people, and the Morrigan haters.

[Cee]

She  only wanted the Old God soul , she was just trolling Morrigan for the Lulz.

In some cases , Morrigan had her killed in Origins even if it didn't happen , she spend her time telling people how awful her mother is and basically Flemeth is a monster.

It just amused her to see Morrigan pee her pants a bit.

 

More seriously Mythal is known to test people , if their intentions are pure , if their resolve is strong enough blablabla...

Flemeth could do whatever she felt like and there was no stopping her , she was just testing the water.

 

 

I liked how this scene was written, because Flemeth was teaching Morrigan another lesson. It was essentially that Morrigan doesn't quite know as much as she thinks she does, but Morrigan's response shows her maturity and also some of the lessons Flemeth taught her after all. It's all, yes, a test.

 

It was a great little scene, especially as a tie to everything from back in Origins to now.

[Dai Grepher]

Viking, let me answer this one for you. In Dragon Age: Origins, which is a sequel to Dragon Age: Inquisition, Morrigan discovers that Flemeth maintains her life by jumping from one body to the next, and that she uses one of her daughters as the new vessel for her spirit. And so Morrigan is under the impression that Flemeth plans to possess her body some day. Morrigan wants the Warden to kill Flemeth for her, and regardless of whether this is done or not, Flemeth still exists after Origins.

 

Now we get to Inquisition. In the Fade, Flemeth learns what Morrigan thinks about her body jumping, and then decides to offer her a deal. She will no longer pursue Morrigan for possession, but in exchange Morrigan must give up Kieran as the next vessel. Morrigan, who genuinely loves her son, refuses and offers her body willingly if only Kieran can live in peace. Flemeth then reveals that she was just testing Morrigan, and that Morrigan was never in any danger of being possessed since a soul is never forced on the unwilling (without horrific results).

 

So that's what Flemeth was referring to there. She asked if she could take Kieran's body as the next vessel, just to see if Morrigan would allow it or sacrifice herself to save her son.

 

What she took from Kieran was the old god soul.

[Aren]

 

The way Flemeth takes the old god soul from Kieran, I wonder if she's doing something like a warden does when he kills an archdemon.  She can survive it, because that's how she transfers her essence from one generation to the next, or hides a piece of her soul inside an amulet for Hawke to take to Kirkwall.

 

Then, when Solas assumes her essence, I wonder if he's also taking a piece of the old god soul too.  Or it could be that by assuming the soul, it just becomes an intertwined part, like possession by a demon.

Spoiler

hostare immagini

The way in which Flemeth take the soul from Kieran is an elaborate ritual

(is not something automatic like the wardens) that she has prepared before the arrival of the PC,they are in a specific place of the fade

(the statue with blood stabbed in the back,maybe is a representation of Mythal) and under their feet there is a blood ideogram which is part of the ritual.

The way in which the GW absorb the soul is more "brutal" and less elaborate,because the soul is still tainted,is meant to be destroyed.

Solas do not absorb her essence only her powers,and i do believe that she has not give the AD soul to Solas,,the AD soul must be somewhere else,she has realesed it off screen.

[Aren]

Kieran is nothing more than a prop in Inquisition. Making him a plot piece in a DLC would be all screwy because he doesn't exist in the majority of the Origins play-throughs. In order for that to work, they would have to force the Dark Ritual on every warden in Origins. That would really tick the US people, and the Morrigan haters.

Is not a problem of tick the US people,the problem would have been to explain of why their warden died,it was simply something that was impossible to force even if the writers would have wanted to do otherwise.

[myahele]

 

 

Spoiler

hostare immagini

The way in which Flemeth take the soul from Kieran is an elaborate ritual

(is not something automatic like the wardens) that she has prepared before the arrival of the PC,they are in a specific place of the fade

(the statue with blood stabbed in the back,maybe is a representation of Mythal) and under their feet there is a blood ideogram which is part of the ritual.

The way in which the GW absorb the soul is more "brutal" and less elaborate,because the soul is still tainted,is meant to be destroyed.

Solas do not absorb her essence only her powers,and i do believe that she has not give the AD soul to Solas,,the AD soul must be somewhere else,she has realesed it off screen.

 

 

To add to this, there is a glyph in which Kieran and Flemeth are standing. While I don't have the image with me that glyph was that an a snake eating it's tale: Urobolous

[Joe25]

Am I the only one that think the Flemetn is an awesome grandma?

[BloodKaiden]

Am I the only one that think the Flemetn is an awesome grandma?

Flemeth and Mystique from the X-men Comics are two of the most badass mothers I have ever seen. They deserve mother of the year awards because their children are all the stronger for their actions.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Am I the only one that think the Flemetn is an awesome grandma?

 

If by awesome you mean raising children up in a traumatizing way, then yes. Go back to Origins and hear Morrigan's dialogue and banter. Observe how she reacts to fake Flemeth in the Fade.

 

Flemeth was many things, but she is most definitely not a good mother or a good grandmother. The best she could do was Morrigan who did a complete 180 after she left Flemeth. This is especially reinforced when Morrigan says this line in Inquisition: "I am many things, but I will not be the mother you were to me."

 

At the end of the day you have to realize that what Flemeth is. Before she bonded with Mythal, Flemeth was someone who cheated on her husband. After bonding with Flemeth, she became a social recluse who terrorizes the Chasind and captures men to toy around with as she pleases. Later she raised Morrigan to be the acerbic woman that our Warden meets.

 

As for Mythal herself, she is an Elven "goddess". If you recall what Solas said about Elven deities, you will know that they were vain and waged pointless wars with each other.

 

So no, Flemeth will not make an awesome grandma.

[Joe25]

Spoiler

If by awesome you mean raising children up in a traumatizing way, then yes. Go back to Origins and hear Morrigan's dialogue and banter. Observe how she reacts to fake Flemeth in the Fade.

 

Flemeth was many things, but she is most definitely not a good mother or a good grandmother. The best she could do was Morrigan who did a complete 180 after she left Flemeth. This is especially reinforced when Morrigan says this line in Inquisition: "I am many things, but I will not be the mother you were to me."

 

At the end of the day you have to realize that what Flemeth is. Before she bonded with Mythal, Flemeth was someone who cheated on her husband. After bonding with Flemeth, she became a social recluse who terrorizes the Chasind and captures men to toy around with as she pleases. Later she raised Morrigan to be the acerbic woman that our Warden meets.

 

As for Mythal herself, she is an Elven "goddess". If you recall what Solas said about Elven deities, you will know that they were vain and waged pointless wars with each other.

 

So no, Flemeth will not make an awesome grandma.

But Flemeth is a good mother. In fact sense she is Mythal she is the goddess of mothers. She shows this in how she raised Morrigan, and acts towards Kieran. Morrigan was a beautiful, curious, prideful child that need to know how to protect herself. Morrigan was the kind a girl that if Flemeth let her keep that stolen mirror Morrigan's pride would have turned to vanity. If Flemeth had let that happen Morrigan would have made herself some nobles toy, and if the templars learned that there lords bride to be was a witch they would not hesitate to ravish her and destroy vanity before killing her spiritually and physically. Flemeth was trying to keep what happen to her from Morrigan. As for when we meet the 18-21 year-old Morrigan, she had been scared back to her mother's home. If Flemeth didn't push her out she would have never left, and continued to blame her mother and herself till there was nothing left of her. Also, Flemeth isn't mad at Morrigan if Kieran isn't born. Flemeth had no plane for Morrigan to take the old god soul.

 

As for Kieran, her grandson was in pain. His soul and the old god's soul was in an internal war. Flemeth did what any good grandmother would do. She made the pain go away, and left Morrigan to raise Kieran as she saw fit.

 

No one said being a mother is hugs and kisses, and children tend to vent the bad, and leave the loving memories to their private reminiscing.      

[Master Warder Z_]

But Flemeth is a good mother. In fact sense she is Mythal she is the goddess of mothers   

 

And?

 

That literally means nothing.

 

It's a title thrown upon her by either those ignorant of history or those so long dead that their beliefs and causation are completely forgotten.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

And?

 

That literally means nothing.

 

It's a title thrown upon her by either those ignorant of history or those so long dead that their beliefs and causation are completely forgotten.

 

Precisely. Saying Flemeth is an awesome mother because Mythal is a "motherly" goddess is like saying Hera is an awesome mother because Hera is "motherly"...Which is just ridiculous.

[Eliastion]

Precisely. Saying Flemeth is an awesome mother because Mythal is a "motherly" goddess is like saying Hera is an awesome mother because Hera is "motherly"...Which is just ridiculous.

Based on what we know from Solas, Mythal seems more like the type of a leader - if we assume the tale of Falon'Din's war to be true, Mythal would be the one that gathered the other gods so that they pull their sh*t together and stop that mandman before he drowns everything in blood.

The problem is, while being a great leader with strong drive to keep the rest of the gods from killing each other and destroying everything and/or themselves (the episode with Andruil going insane comes to mind) is neat and might even be precisely what earned her the title of mother - it doesn't necessarily mean she would be any good at actual parenting...

 

Of course, she might be good, or at least adequate. But we know next to nothing about her, really. Also, becoming a little bit obsessed with avenging herself sounds like something that could interfere with good parenting, regardless of her original capability for that and mortal Flemeth's influence.

[AH37]

I don't think the relationship between Flemeth and Morrigan was always as bad. Morrigan doesn't say anything other than what she lived, and to her; it was normal [traumatising] as she was growing up  in that environment not knowing others [which she learnt a bit through her curiosity], her dialogue with/about her mother seem normal, a bit frustrated but nothing that indicate pure hatred until she got Flemeth's grimoire; it is then Morrigan grew all the resentment and hatred towards her mother. She realised that she was nothing but groomed to be the next host for her mother.

 

Regardless of misunderstood or not; Morrigan shows pure hatred after the grimoire not before. At least that's how I understood it.

 

Leliana banter comes to mind when asking about tales of Flemeth, Morrigan replies with no normal child will want to hear her tales.

 

Another mention is when Morrigan talks about returning to the hut before leaving with the warden for the first time; Flemeth joked about the likelihood of the hut being burnt and it showed a little sadness/concern in Morrigan's face as well.

 

Rather feels like Dorian and his father, except that we can't make Morrigan talk properly with her mother and deal with their differences specially after the revelation in Inquisition.

[Kantr]

The way Flemeth takes the old god soul from Kieran, I wonder if she's doing something like a warden does when he kills an archdemon.  She can survive it, because that's how she transfers her essence from one generation to the next, or hides a piece of her soul inside an amulet for Hawke to take to Kirkwall.

 

Then, when Solas assumes her essence, I wonder if he's also taking a piece of the old god soul too.  Or it could be that by assuming the soul, it just becomes an intertwined part, like possession by a demon.

You would have to wonder then what it is that flemeth sends through the eluvian before solas gets to her

[Nerevar-as]

Morrigan defends Flemeth's education as making her stronger, while love makes weaker (and she has one hell of a reaction when she realizes she's fallen for the Warden). Imho she isn't strong, but hard, and hard materials shatter. She also has problems with empathy towards others.

And from some of Flemeth's lines, it's all according to plan.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Even Flemeth herself seems to realize she's a terrible mother based on her comment at the end of the meeting in the fade.