33 réponses à ce sujet

[Theghostof_timmy]

Because really, they don't have one. I think one unit has a spirit weakness, but that's it.

 

Look at it like this:

 

Red Templars

 

Strengths:

- All units have magic resistance, especially against lightning.

- All units have high armor ratings, especially t3 units.

- T3 units (Knights) can upgrade basic soldiers into t2 units independent of the spawn limits. Alternatively, they can stack buffs on other units, up to and including the commander.

-T2 (Horrors) units have the most powerful, undodgeable range-type attack in the game (homing back spines)

- T3 (Knights) ranged attacks are very high damage and briefly stun.

- By far the most powerful stealth unit in the game (shadows).

- Boss has long I-frames.

 

Weaknesses:

- Boss is vulnerable to sleep and panic from bees.

- No magic attacks.

 

Demons:

 

Strengths:

- Most damage dealt is magic, bypassing armor.

- Fire wraiths are extremely dangerous.

- Demon Commander and Terror demon can knock players down from long range. Difficult to avoid.

- Best tank in the game (pride demons).

- Powerful, annoying support unit (despair demon)

 

Weaknesses:

- Very low, sometimes 0 armor

- All wraiths except fire are garbage except in massive numbers.

- Most damage dealt is magic, with the most dangerous being spirit and fire. High magic resistances make them far less dangerous. Spirit tonics often make Zone 5 laughably easy.

- An entire class dedicated to killing them.

- Boss is highly vulnerable to static cage. Highly telegraphed, relatively simple to avoid attack pattern.

 

Venatorii:

 

Strengths:

 

- Spellbinders can cast barrier on other units.

- Good mix of all damage types.

- Mage units have powerful, ranged AOE attacks that also provide barrier.

- Spellbinder units have very high resistances to their assigned element, and pass that resistance to units they barrier.

- Spellbinder units have powerful area-denial runes.

- Brutes are effective tanks and can disrupt players with their fast movement speed and knockdown attacks.

- Boss has high DPS, and has some dangerous AOE attacks.

 

Weaknesses:

 

- Very vulnerable to dispel effects.

- Middling armor.

- Boss is a glass cannon. Can be killed very quickly. Also, vulnerable to freeze. 

- Magic resistance of the appropriate type can dramatically lower DPS.

 

 

 

One of these things is not like the other.

[Beerfish]

I agree to a point but sleep and frost attacks most units are previous to, not just Samson. 

[Theghostof_timmy]

I agree to a point but sleep and frost attacks most units are previous to, not just Samson. 

True. I'm just covering my bases incase I say "they have no weakness" and somebody pops in and says "just put samson to sleep, nub".

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Red Templar "T3" to which you are referring is a Knight. Horrors are the ones that fire three rounds burst crystals.

On the note of Horrors: I was testing armour damages with my Legionnaire yesterday with Perilous Red Templars (since they are primarily physical damage), and noticed something funny. With archers, getting hit with flanking damage using Turn the Bolt did about 10-20 damage. Adding Bear Mauls the Wolves (purpose of the test), caused that damage to drop to 5-10. With Horrors, however, it was 15-25 damage before and after (normal non-homing three hit attack). I guess it's not a ranged attack? Confusing as hell.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Red Templar "T3" to which you are referring is a Knight. Horrors are the ones that fire three rounds burst crystals.

On the note of Horrors: I was testing armour damages with my Legionnaire yesterday with Perilous Red Templars (since they are primarily physical damage), and noticed something funny. With archers, getting hit with flanking damage using Turn the Bolt did about 10-20 damage. Adding Bear Mauls the Wolves (purpose of the test), caused that damage to drop to 5-10. With Horrors, however, it was 15-30 damage before and after (normal non-homing three hit attack). I guess it's not a ranged attack? Confusing as hell.

Noted. I'll fix it up. Anyways, I wonder what the deal is with the spines exactly. It definitely counts as a physical attack since it's affected by armor. Maybe it just never gets flanking bonuses?

 

edit: Also, Turn the bolt only affects damage to the front does it not? So it wouldn't affect flanking damage.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Noted. I'll fix it up. Anyways, I wonder what the deal is with the spines exactly. It definitely counts as a physical attack since it's affected by armor. Maybe it just never gets flanking bonuses?

edit: Also, Turn the bolt only affects damage to the front does it not? So it wouldn't affect flanking damage.

Oh it does. Front damage is 1. Flank is usually in the 20's. Front has not only 300 armour, but 50% defense against all damage (80% against ranged).

Secondly, my tests were about the synergy of Turn the Bolt and Bear Mauls the Wolves. My theory was that since Turn the Bolt grants a 50% ranged defense on all non-flanking attacks (different from Front Defense) and Bear Mauls the Wolves negates flanking, they'd have awesome synergy. It seems to work with Red Templar archers, but not Horrors.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Oh it does. Front damage is 1. Flank is usually in the 20's. Front has not only 300 armour, but 50% defense against all damage (80% against ranged).

Secondly, my tests were about the synergy of Turn the Bolt and Bear Mauls the Wolves. My theory was that since Turn the Bolt grants a 50% ranged defense on all non-flanking attacks (different from Front Defense) and Bear Mauls the Wolves negates flanking, they'd have awesome synergy. It seems to work with Red Templar archers, but not Horrors.

Ahhhh. Smart. That's awesome.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Ahhhh. Smart. That's awesome.

Yeah, but it's a shame that none of the 2h warriors have Turn the Bolt. Granted, it's in the Sword and Shield skill tree in single player, but so is Bear Mauls the Wolves (which several 2h warriors have).

[Spin-Orbit]

Demons:
 
Strengths:
- Most damage dealt is magic, bypassing armor.
- Fire wraiths are extremely dangerous.
- Demon Commander and Terror demon can knock players down from long range. Difficult to avoid.
- Best tank in the game (pride demons).
- Powerful, annoying support unit (despair demon)
 
Weaknesses:
- Very low, sometimes 0 armor
- All wraiths except fire are garbage except in massive numbers.
- Most damage dealt is magic, with the most dangerous being spirit and fire. High magic resistances make them far less dangerous. Spirit tonics often make Zone 5 laughably easy.
- An entire class dedicated to killing them.
- Boss is highly vulnerable to static cage. Highly telegraphed, relatively simple to avoid attack pattern.

One of the biggest strength of the demons especially in NM and most likely in HB is the Terror demons coming up out of the ground knocking you down, this in combination with the Pride Demons electric attack that can stagger you and the despair demons freeze ray can certainly ruin your day.

[SkillSpray]

 

- T3 units (Knights) can upgrade basic soldiers into t2 units independent of the spawn limits. Alternatively, they can stack buffs on other units, up to and including the commander.

-T2 (Horrors) units have the most powerful, undodgeable range-type attack in the game (homing back spines)

 

 

This was especially deadly in NM this weekend. All there was this weekend were RT paired with guardians/undead. 

 

In zone 4, when you have multiple knights buffing a single horror, it was GG (still is I guess, didn't get RT since then).

With multiple Knight buffs, a horror was doing 1.5k per projectile, resulting in 1 shots from full barrier & hp, while normally i can do NM in a group without barrier support on my reaver.

Was funny to watch, was not funny to play.

[Theghostof_timmy]

One of the biggest strength of the demons especially in NM and most likely in HB is the Terror demons coming up out of the ground knocking you down, this in combination with the Pride Demons electric attack that can stagger you and the despair demons freeze ray can certainly ruin your day.

All true. But the point is, everything they have is counterable. CC cleansers like unbowed can get you up immediately, a lightning tonic can negate pride demons in a pinch, DDs can be dispelled and quickly eliminated. Red templars have no such obvious counters. You can get something less bad, ie. not reliant on magic, but there isn't any one thing you can point to and say, this thing is really good against red templars. Not to mention, you can play a perfect game, and one missed shadow can end your run in seconds.

[capn233]

Oh it does. Front damage is 1. Flank is usually in the 20's. Front has not only 300 armour, but 50% defense against all damage (80% against ranged).

Secondly, my tests were about the synergy of Turn the Bolt and Bear Mauls the Wolves. My theory was that since Turn the Bolt grants a 50% ranged defense on all non-flanking attacks (different from Front Defense) and Bear Mauls the Wolves negates flanking, they'd have awesome synergy. It seems to work with Red Templar archers, but not Horrors.

 

Are the lyrium attacks magic (and reduced by defense only), or are they actually physical?

[Luke Barrett]

The Red Templars, as a whole, have less total HP than the other two factions.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Are the lyrium attacks magic (and reduced by defense only), or are they actually physical?

 

Damage is red, so it's physical. Magical would be blue (cold), orange (fire), purple (electric), or yellow (spirit). That said, it may be some weird half-way damage that is physical, but is magic?

 

Nah, see that would make no sense why it's damage it reduced to 1 in the front without armour. A 50% magic defense wouldn't reduce it that low (I don't have a lot of promotions).

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

The Red Templars, as a whole, have less total HP than the other two factions.

 

Hey Mr. Barrett! Maybe you can answer this: Does the Horror attacks have any special properties to them?

 

Also, were my findings about Turn the Bolt + Bear Mauls the Wolves just my imagination, or do they really synergize?

[Cirvante]

Panic is good against everything but Shadows. Stun works against everything but Knights. The Commander can be permanently put to sleep.

[Drasca]

Because really, they don't have one. I think one unit has a spirit weakness, but that's it.

 

Look at it like this:

 

Red Templars

 

Strengths:

- All units have magic resistance, especially against lightning.

- All units have high armor ratings, especially t3 units.

- T3 units (Knights) can upgrade basic soldiers into t2 units independent of the spawn limits. Alternatively, they can stack buffs on other units, up to and including the commander.

-T2 (Horrors) units have the most powerful, undodgeable range-type attack in the game (homing back spines)

- T3 (Knights) ranged attacks are very high damage and briefly stun.

- By far the most powerful stealth unit in the game (shadows).

- Boss has long I-frames.

 

Weaknesses:

- Boss is vulnerable to sleep and panic from bees.

- No magic attacks.

 

Horror has an AoE that is spirit Damage

Only some units have Electric Resist.

Horrors resist electric / weak to spirit

Red Templar Knight resist/immune to cold. I think fire vulnerable actually. Need to check. Immune to physical effects too, but I think TF can knock them down. Usually kills soo it is rare to see.

Shadows weak to paralyze, as are most RT units except Knight, Behemoth and RTC

Behemoth resist / immune to fire, vulnerable to cold. Immune to phys effects.

Marksmen/Footsoldiers/Shield guys -- Forgot what their elemental resist/vulnerabilities are. They can all be panicked and frozen though

 

The Shield guys can block, which halves projectile and many other attacks.

 

Really, the main pains are the Red Knights, Horrors and Shadows, and Shield guys. They all have their own weaknesses though.

 

 

Panic is good against everything but Shadows. Stun works against everything but Knights. The Commander can be permanently put to sleep.

 

If you want to consider the behemoth and RTC a knight, sure. Seriously though, there's plenty of ways to deal with RT's.

[jvaz]

Knight is very weak to fire. Behemoth is very weak to cold, horrors vulnerable to spirit.

[thats1evildude]

In the SP campaign, they're vulnerable to Cleansing Runes, but those don't seem to exist in MP.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Horror has an AoE that is spirit Damage

Only some units have Electric Resist.

Horrors resist electric / weak to spirit

Red Templar Knight resist/immune to cold. I think fire vulnerable actually. Need to check. Immune to physical effects too, but I think TF can knock them down. Usually kills soo it is rare to see.

Shadows weak to paralyze, as are most RT units except Knight, Behemoth and RTC

Behemoth resist / immune to fire, vulnerable to cold. Immune to phys effects.

Marksmen/Footsoldiers/Shield guys -- Forgot what their elemental resist/vulnerabilities are. They can all be panicked and frozen though

 

The Shield guys can block, which halves projectile and many other attacks.

 

Really, the main pains are the Red Knights, Horrors and Shadows, and Shield guys. They all have their own weaknesses though.

 

 

 

If you want to consider the behemoth and RTC a knight, sure. Seriously though, there's plenty of ways to deal with RT's.

All the factions are affected by those same conditions, though. I was looking for benefits/weaknesses that were more unique to the faction. And really, if all but 1 or 2 rarer unit types are heavily resistant to lightning, the faction as a whole is resistant.

[Rolenka]

My only problem with the Red Templars is the commander's stunlock attacks. They don't let up long enough for a melee character to do more than get in, hit once and use an escape ability like Combat Roll or Evasion to get out in time. And if you miscalculate, well... there goes 3/4 your health on Routine.

[shadowcaezar]

I think the RT's are very difficult for new players and the under promoted. Typically new players over prioritize willpower which does little for survivability with an enemy that is primarily melee. Constitution really makes the RT's much easier to deal with. I MUCH prefer RT's to demons or Venatori on nightmare.

[yarpenthemad21]

Actually Red templar main "weakness" which sometimes could be strength is that it is a pure psychical damage faction (with "exception of spirit damage when horror get angry).

Armor, shield users and in general that way pretty much reduce damage they do to very low levels. This makes it harder for barrier users, for armor won't do anything and which need soak those high numbers of range attacks. Pretty much anti mage faction I would say, best way to kill the mage is to just shoot at him with everything you have.

As for the RTC. He is "cheap". Like "stop hitting me I want to drink potion"...or spin to win into the wall. But on the other hand shield user can just face tank him and make rtc to just deal 1 damage pretty much.

If I would change something I would just "remove" guardians (those with shields) from red templars. As a anti mage faction they don't need them, as vulnerable to warriors faction they are freaking annoying.

[Drasca]

All the factions are affected by those same conditions, though. I was looking for benefits/weaknesses that were more unique to the faction. And really, if all but 1 or 2 rarer unit types are heavily resistant to lightning, the faction as a whole is resistant.

 

It is just the opposite, only 1-2 are resistent to lightning, and the rest are not.

[BiggyDX]

The Red Templars, as a whole, have less total HP than the other two factions.

 

*Drops Keyboard and walks out*