Just troll the internet I am all for it. I also think he should be at the heart of the black city in dragon age.
[heavily injured Inquisitor tumbles through a portal into the Fade]
C: Wake up.
I: What? Where am I?
C: The Black City. It's my home.
I: Who are you?
C: I am the Catalyst.
I: I need to stop the Darkspawn. Do you know how I can do that?
C: Perhaps. I control the Darkspawn. They are my solution.
... no, I can't even do it for fun. Too horrible. -.-
I wanna shoot that defective, rampant AI in the face without any consequences.
we all do.
did any of our choices effect anything?
[heavily injured Inquisitor tumbles through a portal into the Fade]
C: Wake up.
I: What? Where am I?
C: The Black City. It's my home.
I: Who are you?
C: I am the Catalyst.
I: I need to stop the Darkspawn. Do you know how I can do that?
C: Perhaps. I control the Darkspawn. They are my solution.
... no, I can't even do it for fun. Too horrible. -.-
Keep going. I want the internet to implode.
Keep going. I want the internet to implode.
But we need the internet, think of the children lol.
First things first: The Catalyst is as dumb as a brick. He really is. This problem he searched a solution for was nonexistent until the moment he rebelled. His solution was utter crap and his whining about "synthesis cannot be forced" is a joke if you think about it.
Ok let´s say his hardware needs are not important for the debate as we don´t know if it runs on nanoscale computers or has the biggest cupboard of computer hardware ever seen.
I think that there is no backup because it didn´t went online the moment the Crucible docked and the catalyst thought "I let this human in here, explain to him where the off switch is and raise a platform so he can walk there" instead of simply letting Shepard bleed out on the floor below. In the low EMS ending there is only destroy by the way. This would be the moment you need a backup for.
And well every backup connected at the moment of Shepard´s decision would probably be affected by the decision. Eventual backups are probably on Sovereign class Reapers anyways. I mean can you find a better place than a highly mobile battleship able to take a lot of damage and dish out a lot of pain? You don´t have to put it on the front lines if you are concerned that the primitives can shoot it down.
This leaves unconnected backups hidden away. Backups and updates of the backups are probably done via some internal Reaper network or so. In the destroy or the control ending there is nothing left of the network or another AI is now boss and I am pretty sure that Shepalyst wouldn´t like the competition. It can´t upload itself on other channels because the Reapers took potshots at the buoys to cut off communication.
So yeah there is no one left and the backup entity is left stranded somewhere unless Bioware does an asspull and says that he has his own craft that isn´t affected because of reasons.
Why should it replicate itself? It´s not his purpose, reproduction is an organic thing. His purpose is to achieve eternal peace between organics and synthetics or the reapers give him purpose, whatever his deranged processors are up to.
Why didn´t it go to Andromeda besides Bioware being smart enough to realize that only a tiny minority would want the Reapers again and that starkid is probably one of the most hated NPCs in the franchise? Well, why should it go to Andromeda? And until Bioware reveals how the Ark project goes to Andromeda, we don´t know how it was possible to go there in the first place. It could be that even Reaper drives break down after a hundred years at full speed and the only way to cross conventionally would be to slow down to one light year a day.
I didn't notice this before but you are arguing against the Catalyst being in Andromeda because you don't like it. 
That's not the basis of a well reasoned argument.
The Catalyst A.I. is stupid but he is the intelligence. The smartest thing in that universe. So this doesn't explain why humans and protheans would think to do things the Catalyst A.I. has not.
His hardware needs are important for this 'debate' (
) otherwise some other points of your arguments are confusing. Online? Every Back up connected? A better place than a highly mobile battleship? What about the core of a Star? Or the core of a planet? Or nothing? This thing didn't exist till it existed. We have no idea if there is more than one or not. Logic tells us there might be, simply because there is more than one galaxy and it might want to 'save organics' in other galaxies.
That is not a reason as to why it wouldn't replicate itself. That is just it's goal. I can easily say for the Catalyst to achieve that goal it must replicate itself. If, of course, it is not already a replication of the original A.I. (Just to be clear replicating itself and backing itself up are the same thing to me.)
I think I disagree with your ideas on what a highly advanced futuristic made up A.I. is capable of. You impose restrictions that I don't think real A.I. of the future will have. The main issue with your argument is that it is damn near impossible to argue for restrictions on a fictional being we know next to nothing about that has been around for an uncountable number of years and must be the most intelligent being in that universe. Your description of the Catalyst makes me think of Siri. I am surprised you don't hate it more. Do you really thing this fictional A.I. will have such dated restrictions imposed on it? Its A.I. artificial intelligence more intelligent than humans and it may even have supernatural powers seeing as it appeared as the same kid Shepard watched die.
You don't want the Catalyst A.I. in Andromeda, I get that, but that is the problem with your argument. You are arguing emotionally and not logically. If Bioware wanted it in Andromeda it would be there. Easily. The only reason it probably wont be in Andromeda is because it is not well liked.
I think you are in the wrong thread if you don't want to talk about the Catalyst in Andromeda.
Keep going. I want the internet to implode.
I keep wanting to mix in the Architect from the Matrix, too. 
Agreed.
Just because we didn't see s/he ride off into the sunset doesn't change the fact that they did indeed survive. It wasn't the most satisfactory ending, but they are alive. Also, in the discontinued iPod app, you get a message after you beat the game with that ending from your LI or closest squadmate: "See you in the hospital."
Ahh, forgot about it but I loved that app! Tali sending badly misspelled drunk texts XD.
I want nothing connecting the original trilogy to the new games.. Meaning, no reaper threat, no catalyst.
So no humans, asari, turians, etc.?
What's wrong with the superweapon actually doing what it was supposed to do?
Which is what- merge all life into some organic-synthetic abomination?
I didn't notice this before but you are arguing against the Catalyst being in Andromeda because you don't like it.
The Catalyst A.I. is stupid but he is the intelligence. The smartest thing in that universe. So this doesn't explain why humans and protheans would think to do things the Catalyst A.I. has not.
His hardware needs are important for this 'debate' (
That is not a reason as to why it wouldn't replicate itself. That is just it's goal. I can easily say for the Catalyst to achieve that goal it must replicate itself. If, of course, it is not already a replication of the original A.I. (Just to be clear replicating itself and backing itself up are the same thing to me.)
I think I disagree with your ideas on what a highly advanced futuristic made up A.I. is capable of. You impose restrictions that I don't think real A.I. of the future will have. The main issue with your argument is that it is damn near impossible to argue for restrictions on a fictional being we know next to nothing about that has been around for an uncountable number of years and must be the most intelligent being in that universe. Your description of the Catalyst makes me think of Siri. I am surprised you don't hate it more.
You don't want the Catalyst A.I. in Andromeda, I get that, but that is the problem with your argument. You are arguing emotionally and not logically. If Bioware wanted it in Andromeda it would be there. Easily. The only reason it probably wont be in Andromeda is because it is not well liked.
I think you are in the wrong thread if you don't want to talk about the Catalyst in Andromeda.
This whole thread is full of "hell no, this would be stupid" just with less words. So no I am in the right thread. Yeah ok, if you expand the debate so that it´s possible that it runs on cosmic dust between the stars and has supernatural powers. I went with the assumption that it didn´t talk BS when it said "the Citadel is my home and part of me."
This whole thread is full of "hell no, this would be stupid" just with less words. So no I am in the right thread. Yeah ok, if you expand the debate so that it´s possible that it runs on cosmic dust between the stars and has supernatural powers. I went with the assumption that it didn´t talk BS when it said "the Citadel is my home and part of me."
Dantriges, we are comparing ideas and speculations. Mine just happen to be better thought out than yours. No shame there.
We musn't confuse popularity, with logic and reason. I have no real interest in revisiting the events of the trilogy but that does not mean ME:Andromeda won't. This view will not get in the way of my ability to make a reasonable argument as to why Andromeda will not feature the Catalyst.
For clarity while there are many ways as to how the Catalyst could appear in Andromeda, Bioware left that door wide open. There are only a few as to why he won't. Bioware wish to begin a new story divorced from the ME trilogy/endings. Fan dislike of the Catalyst A.I.
Actually we don't have any evidence that the star-brat is anything more than a badly written VI - as far as I can tell it's core procedure looks something like:
Retour en haut
:loop;
while( !crucibleFailsafeEngaged() ) {
/**
* @todo fix the bug in the harvest sub-routine that's supposed to prevent Leviathan being targeted
*/
if( sentientSyntheticsFound() ) { harvest(); }
else { wait(157788000000); }
}
if( rgbOptionSelected() ) { shutdown(); }
else { goto loop; }
I figure we should have a secret place on MEA where you could access a big room with some items scattered: A Tali's picture, a Krysae nerf gun, a Kai Leng doll, the Deception novel, twitter. Of course, the starbrat would be the tour guide.
Dantriges, we are comparing ideas and speculations. Mine just happen to be better thought out than yours. No shame there.
Dude, really? 
Your arguments boil down to, he could be anything because I believe hyper advanced AIs could be anything. I work with the few bits of information that we have and he doled out. Could be lies but we have nothing else. And in case he said the truth his primary has one location and is tied to the Reapers.
If he can be anything he could also be a deranged lunatic with a billion years of runtime errors and bugs in his code or whatever hyperadvanced AIs have. Older doesn´t always mean better.
The other argument is he is stupid but should be really intelligent. Problem is, his reasoning is faulty, his solution solving processes are crap and he can´t even find a workaround for "synthesis can´t be forced."
His whole "I am the dumbest brick in the galaxy" shtick started right at the beginning.
So he came to the conclusion that synthetics will always win over their organic creators. This isn´t true unless someone can overpower the apex race, the ones who made him. His purpose that he still fulfills according to his own statements is to prevent that and protect organic life.
So he can:
1. Tell his masters, the biggest mindrapers in the galaxy who can grill a souvereign reaper in a few minutes to get off their lazy asses and mindcontrol AI scientists to stop them from developing AI and force thrall politicians to forbid that stuff. If an AI already popped up, kill it. Because whatever the thralls make, won´t be a challenge for the Leviathans at the height of their power. After that proposal, power down. Protect life at any cost, the Catalyst is an AI, he is a potential threat for organic life, be consequent and kill yourself.
or
2. Rebel against his masters because he made a selffulfilling prophecy and harvest the galaxy every 50.000 years in a futile quest for galactic peace, hoping that if everyone understands each other, there will be peace and happiness. He should have paid a visit to Earth.
The Catalyst is a faulty creation made by lazy creators. Could be that they were even in decline and in the last decadent stages of their empire or they would have come up with the solution "Duh, we can mindcontrol, perhaps we should do that" on their own.
Actually we don't have any evidence that the star-brat is anything more than a badly written VI - as far as I can tell it's core procedure looks something like:
:loop; while( !crucibleFailsafeEngaged() ) { /** * @todo fix the bug in the harvest sub-routine that's supposed to prevent Leviathan being targeted */ if( sentientSyntheticsFound() ) { harvest(); } else { wait(157788000000); } } if( rgbOptionSelected() ) { shutdown(); } else { goto loop; }
Let's not get into the problems Bioware has with understanding what sets AI (or what we would notionally consider AI) apart from just complicated software that has some speech recognition.
Dude, really?
If he can be anything he could also be a deranged lunatic with a billion years of runtime errors and bugs in his code or whatever hyperadvanced AIs have. Older doesn´t always mean better.
The other argument is he is stupid but should be really intelligent. Problem is, his reasoning is faulty, his solution solving processes are crap and he can´t even find a workaround for "synthesis can´t be forced."
His whole "I am the dumbest brick in the galaxy" shtick started right at the beginning.
So he came to the conclusion that synthetics will always win over their organic creators. This isn´t true unless someone can overpower the apex race, the ones who made him.
To be fair this is obviously true since the Catalyst was able to overpower the apex race.
1. Tell his masters, the biggest mindrapers in the galaxy who can grill a souvereign reaper in a few minutes to get off their lazy asses and mindcontrol AI scientists to stop them from developing AI and force thrall politicians to forbid that stuff. If an AI already popped up, kill it. Because whatever the thralls make, won´t be a challenge for the Leviathans at the height of their power. After that proposal, power down. Protect life at any cost, the Catalyst is an AI, he is a potential threat for organic life, be consequent and kill yourself.
or
2. Rebel against his masters because he made a selffulfilling prophecy and harvest the galaxy every 50.000 years in a futile quest for galactic peace, hoping that if everyone understands each other, there will be peace and happiness. He should have paid a visit to Earth.
The Catalyst is a faulty creation made by lazy creators. Could be that they were even in decline and in the last decadent stages of their empire or they would have come up with the solution "Duh, we can mindcontrol, perhaps we should do that" on their own.
1.) The Leviathans weren't looking to prevent AI's development, they were looking for a way to have the benefits of synthetics without being wiped out by them. After all in real life there's a possibility of humans creating an AI that can't be controlled but that doesn't mean research into AI has stopped.
2.) It wasn't looking for galactic peace, it was looking for the answer to how synthetics could benefit organics without the risk of the extinction of organics. The cycles were a stop-gap measure until it could figure out how to bring that about. Peace is only meant in the context of synthetic-organic relations.
Dude, really?
If he can be anything he could also be a deranged lunatic with a billion years of runtime errors and bugs in his code or whatever hyperadvanced AIs have. Older doesn´t always mean better.
The other argument is he is stupid but should be really intelligent. Problem is, his reasoning is faulty, his solution solving processes are crap and he can´t even find a workaround for "synthesis can´t be forced."
His whole "I am the dumbest brick in the galaxy" shtick started right at the beginning.
So he came to the conclusion that synthetics will always win over their organic creators. This isn´t true unless someone can overpower the apex race, the ones who made him. His purpose that he still fulfills according to his own statements is to prevent that and protect organic life.
So he can:
1. Tell his masters, the biggest mindrapers in the galaxy who can grill a souvereign reaper in a few minutes to get off their lazy asses and mindcontrol AI scientists to stop them from developing AI and force thrall politicians to forbid that stuff. If an AI already popped up, kill it. Because whatever the thralls make, won´t be a challenge for the Leviathans at the height of their power. After that proposal, power down. Protect life at any cost, the Catalyst is an AI, he is a potential threat for organic life, be consequent and kill yourself.
or
2. Rebel against his masters because he made a selffulfilling prophecy and harvest the galaxy every 50.000 years in a futile quest for galactic peace, hoping that if everyone understands each other, there will be peace and happiness. He should have paid a visit to Earth.
The Catalyst is a faulty creation made by lazy creators. Could be that they were even in decline and in the last decadent stages of their empire or they would have come up with the solution "Duh, we can mindcontrol, perhaps we should do that" on their own.
:'( As I said, try to create a solid foundation for your argument. My arguments boils down to the fact that the Catalyst A.I. was created to solve a problem that it's organic creators could not. Which makes it smarter than its organic creators. Makes it smarter than humans because it is more technologically advanced. The catalyst A.I. appeared out of nowhere as the form of a little boy you saw die during the reaper attack on earth... Stop pretending he is Siri.
Who said older means better? I made a clear point that an A.I. that is an uncountable number of years old may have advanced its technology some. This is why you shouldn't argue with emotion. It makes you dismissive of good points.
We all know the Mass Effect universe is full of holes. We can all with, hindsight, design it better than it is.
Of course his reasoning is faulty the catalyst A.I. is a device used by Bioware to end the trilogy. It didn't really exist until Bioware created ME3.
Really??? He can do one of two badly thought out ideas? You are not designing ME3 you don't have an excuse as to why your idea wasn't well thought out.
The Catalyst, through his research comes to the conclusion that artificial life forms killing their creators is something that is bound to happen. If he were to simply create a policing force of, lets call them, reapers that stopped the wars between the synthetic and bio lifeforms from going to far? They could have tied this into the trilogy by suggesting that the Reaper's grew bored of serving the Catalyst rebelled and has been killing cycles ever since. The crucible could have been a piece of the Catalyst code (whatever we want to call it) that survived the cycles and only he, as there creator, can bring an end to the reapers. I didn't give this idea as much thought as I probably should have but do you think it is less reasonable than your idea of mind controlling politicians?
If we are suggesting ideas that have nothing to do with the trilogy. Then why would synthetics wish to exterminate all bio lifeforms anyway. Its a ridiculous concept. However, if this still happened and the species involved are intelligent enough to.. not want to kill each other the Catalyst could simply make its findings available to everyone and hopefully there will be peace.
To be fair this is obviously true since the Catalyst was able to overpower the apex race.
1.) The Leviathans weren't looking to prevent AI's development, they were looking for a way to have the benefits of synthetics without being wiped out by them. After all in real life there's a possibility of humans creating an AI that can't be controlled but that doesn't mean research into AI has stopped.
2.) It wasn't looking for galactic peace, it was looking for the answer to how synthetics could benefit organics without the risk of the extinction of organics. The cycles were a stop-gap measure until it could figure out how to bring that about. Peace is only meant in the context of synthetic-organic relations.
Yes he was able to overpower them. 
The Leviathans weren´t threatened by the other AIs, it was a problem that Thralls got wiped out. His analysis only became true that all synthetic life turns against its creators and overpowers them when he decided to harvest them, still thinking he is just doing hs job.
2. Synthesis, his final solution was sold as harmony, peace and understanding between everyone.
:'( As I said, try to create a solid foundation for your argument. My arguments boils down to the fact that the Catalyst A.I. was created to solve a problem that it's organic creators could not. Which makes it smarter than its organic creators. Makes it smarter than humans because it is more technologically advanced. The catalyst A.I. appeared out of nowhere as the form of a little boy you saw die during the reaper attack on earth... Stop pretending he is Siri.
Who said older means better? I made a clear point that an A.I. that is an uncountable number of years old may have advanced its technology some. This is why you shouldn't argue with emotion. It makes you dismissive of good points.
The only emotion I have right now is a slight irritation caused by you accusing me of debating without a solid foundation when I don´t even see what your arguments are based on besides wishful thinking and dismissing the few things we know about the Catalyst with "yeah it´s badly written but I believe..."
Or to sum it up, I don´t see one good point in the stuff you wrote. Maybe my foundation is shaky but yours is nonexistent IMO. But it´s only a slight irritation, nothing disruptive.
Well this "it was created to solve a problem his organic creators could not" is an interesting idea. It´s equally possible that they could have solved the problem all on their own but were too lazy to or they were occupied with other stuff. It was a tool they used, doesn´t mean they couldn´t have solved it on their own. We do that all the time today.
Could be that it wouldn´t have been so elegant and thorough as the Catalyst´s one but I am pretty sure they would have preferred a different one.
About the boy hologram. Reapers collect memories. From the wiki:
The memories of the Leviathans used to create Harbinger were preserved as the Reaper's gestalt consciousness, which in turn was incorporated into the Catalyst itself.
Hardly surprising that the catalyst is able to extract a single image from the unconscious Shepard´s mind. Or I use the ME is full of holes argument and it was the only thing the writers came up with. 
Yes he was able to overpower them.
2. Synthesis, his final solution was sold as harmony, peace and understanding between everyone.
The only emotion I have right now is a slight irritation caused by you accusing me of debating without a solid foundation when I don´t even see what your arguments are based on besides wishful thinking and dismissing the few things we know about the Catalyst with "yeah it´s badly written but I believe..."
Or to sum it up, I don´t see one good point in the stuff you wrote. Maybe my foundation is shaky but yours is nonexistent IMO. But it´s only a slight irritation, nothing disruptive.
Well this "it was created to solve a problem his organic creators could not" is an interesting idea. It´s equally possible that they could have solved the problem all on their own but were too lazy to or they were occupied with other stuff. It was a tool they used, doesn´t mean they couldn´t have solved it on their own. We do that all the time today.
Could be that it wouldn´t have been so elegant and thorough as the Catalyst´s one but I am pretty sure they would have preferred a different one.
About the boy hologram. Reapers collect memories. From the wiki:
Hardly surprising that the catalyst is able to extract a single image from the unconscious Shepard´s mind. Or I use the ME is full of holes argument and it was the only thing the writers came up with.
Considering that we don't and can't know how many organic races were wiped out by synthetic races before the Catalyst made the Reapers I'm not willing to make the assumption that the Catalyst was wrong on the point about synthetics annihilating organics. Regardless it's analysis didn't come true because it made sure to only harvest species who had reached a certain level of intelligence, it didn't carry out the ultimate fear which was that synthetics would completely wipe out organics.
Or to sum it up, I don´t see one good point in the stuff you wrote. Maybe my foundation is shaky but yours is nonexistent IMO. But it´s only a slight irritation, nothing disruptive.
Its funny because I agreed with a point you made in that post where I made no good points. If this doesn't prove to you that you haven't really given any of your words, or mine, much thought I don't know what will. I guess we should just agree to disagree and move on. I don't see this going anywhere good. 
I meant in general, it´s not like your or my posts are short. I cut something else that I agreed with by the way. But yeah we are now down to nitpicking it seems, besides you jumping to conclusions what I am feeling, how much time I spent on my posts or yours.
Considering that we don't and can't know how many organic races were wiped out by synthetic races before the Catalyst made the Reapers I'm not willing to make the assumption that the Catalyst was wrong on the point about synthetics annihilating organics. Regardless it's analysis didn't come true because it made sure to only harvest species who had reached a certain level of intelligence, it didn't carry out the ultimate fear which was that synthetics would completely wipe out organics.
The catalyst uses a lot of circular logic. Every synthetic lifeform rebels against their creator = I have to turn against my creators.
The catalyst uses a lot of circular logic.
Maybe reapers using the inception horn is the Catalyst trolling the us.
