227 réponses à ce sujet

[Lefaey]

Looking at the reaver without removing any of the skills and passives. I feel some could switch places to let passives that help all build options to be in the center row. i think deep reserves and clear a path should switch places with crippling blows and hamstring since they could be useful for any kind of reaver build. And ring of pain should switch place with either fervor or bloodbath.
Perhaps also put cpg directly to the left/right of Mighty blow as it is a synergy passive to that skill.

[Snakebite]

Gathering Storm needs to be more readily accessible to the Keeper. Moving it up to in the right tree or to the left would be nice. Similar to where Opening Set is on the Virt. 

 

I also feel like the Elementalist should either not have Gathering Storm (seeing as he already has one passive that lets him cast with no cooldowns), or Gathering Storm should be moved toward the bottom of the tree.

[Dragkonias]

Also, another idea.

Maybe have it so the evasion skill is even more effective if the target is stealthed.

Maybe even bump evasion's base to 10% then have it be 25% while stealthed.

[Proto]

I also feel like the Elementalist should either not have Gathering Storm (seeing as he already has one passive that lets him cast with no cooldowns), or Gathering Storm should be moved toward the bottom of the tree.

 

Agreed. Should be removed / moved down for the AW as well.

[Snakebite]

Agreed. Should be removed from AW as well.

 

Whoa now! Slow down!  Let's not make any hasty decisions suggestions, OK?

[GreySpectre]

I also feel like the Elementalist should either not have Gathering Storm (seeing as he already has one passive that lets him cast with no cooldowns), or Gathering Storm should be moved toward the bottom of the tree.

That would pretty much screw low level players like me, who see a critical once every ten years

[Snakebite]

That would pretty much screw low level players like me, who see a critical once every ten years

 

Which is why I also suggested moving it down the tree, similar to where the Keeper's Gathering Storm is now.  It is such a powerful passive that I think it would be justifiable to need to put a couple extra points in to get it.

[BadgerladDK]

I'd like to see one change to the Necro: Shift Simulacrum off to one of the sides to make it not required to get to the good stuff, and possible to not take it at all. Maybe just switch its position with Death Siphon, since I'm having a hard time imagining anyone not wanting that anyway. Or switch its place with Power of the Dead.

[yarpenthemad21]

Alchemist need some remake not in terms of what she should be.

Spamming mine thingy? It's bad, cause camera shake and result is not that great. Her left tree is all around this. Spam mines or poision or both.
So what sneak attack do there?
I would add spinning blade somewhere to alchemist. It's a fun skill, one of the few rogue skills which work whatever we are flanking or not, in stealth or not. This aoe type of multi attack would IMO fit crazy Luka great.
I was never here should be closer.

Explosive toxin passive. Either taken when poison weapons or toxic cloud. Problem is that with poison weapons I need more points. Some swapping here would be welcome, also dirty fighting isn't that great.
Shadowstrike shoudn't be on the way to something. In general skills on main up-down line should be avoided.

I would love some general "idea" (in current tree like model) that we add abilities on sides (and close to start as possible). If abilities got some passive which benefits both of them in some way - this could be a passive in the middle and abilities at both sides.
If passive is connected with some ability, like mercy killing with sleep ability, this passive should be next to this ability.
Passives gives general bonus not connected with particular ability should be either on sides or on main line.

So getting skills what we want as fast as possible - after that passives to boost build more. Passive progression is way more fun in my opinion.

[Aetika]

 

Assassins

- 'I Was Never Here' is needed very early in a skill tree to add to the assassins survival.

 

 

+1 to this. I was never here is very important and it´s buried at the very bottom of the tree, making Assassin´s leveling rather painfull.

[Drasanil]

Agreed. Should be removed / moved down for the AW as well.

 

Because AW hasn't been nerfed enough already. Why not make spellsword and force of will prerequisites for fade shield while you're at it 

[Proto]

Because AW hasn't been nerfed enough already. Why not make spellsword and force of will prerequisites for fade shield while you're at it 

 

Just doesn't fit the KIT, imo. As someone Skillyspray mentioned earlier in the thread clean burn would be more fitting and would benefit Spirit Blade. 

[capn233]

Because AW hasn't been nerfed enough already. Why not make spellsword and force of will prerequisites for fade shield while you're at it 

 

This thread is dangerous.

 

AW does need some work though, rearranging some things would help.  Nerfing Fade Shield (which includes moving it) would be counter productive.  Moving Gathering Storm (a nerf) may not be a completely terrible idea.

 

Also in general the character needs more focus.  Personally I don't think AW should have much in the way of "support" or CC abilities.  Hence you could remove POTA and save it for a DLC character, who could be imaginatively named "Rift Mage."

[Cirvante]

Its not possible to deal 50k damage to a single enemies in 3 seconds currently. Assassin has auto crits, archer does not. The top 1% can deal ludiludicrous damage regardless, its the lower promoted players which lesser gear that would be able to melt faction commanders on lower difficulties that would be an issue.

Jay would simply not be able to deal 75k of damage if he had the same stats i do because my crit chance is maybe 20%.

 

Wrong. If I had a wall behind me, I could spam Leaping Shot with Pincushion on the dragon until I could do 50k in three seconds.

 

I don't have the Hakkon dagger, so my Izzy does 6k against a dragon and 11k against the Venatori Commander with Ambush on Perilous. So you would probably need high-end gear and a MOT to do 50k with an Assassin with Hidden Blades and Ambush. The Assassin is meant to be a single target burst-DPS character. Right now she has trouble keeping up with a Reaver/Archer on the higher difficulties, especially due to the terrible tracking of her abilities.

[Geth Supremacy]

I also feel like the Elementalist should either not have Gathering Storm (seeing as he already has one passive that lets him cast with no cooldowns), or Gathering Storm should be moved toward the bottom of the tree.

 

[BiggyDX]

Why not give the Keeper Pull of the Abyss, and have the AW take her Disruption Field? Disruption Field would benefit his [AW] defensive capabilities, while PotA gives the Keeper another CC ability; emphasizing her role as a support class. 

[capn233]

Why not give the Keeper Pull of the Abyss, and have the AW take her Disruption Field? Disruption Field would benefit his [AW] defensive capabilities, while PotA gives the Keeper another CC ability; emphasizing her role as a support class. 

 

Yeah actually I had that thought.  I am not sure if it would end up overlapping too much with Static Cage, although it would give her a better way to utilize Restorative Veil.

 

DF is at least a KE power, which is what the AW should actually be replicating (more or less).  May also be able to clear out some of the riff raff passives like Spell Sword, Force of Will, Peaceful Aura, Blinding Terror, and then remove Psychic Backlash for Veiled Reposte (positioned further down the tree).

 

Flashfire has no purpose on AW.  The real question is if you want to replace it at all, and if so with another fire power.  There aren't really many that would fit, even though FM was popular on KE it might be a bit unbalanced on AW.   Energy Barrage might not be too bad.

 

Another issue is whether Spirit Blade should be moved somewhere further downstream so that it can get a buff to make it useful (like barrier and guard multipliers with 15-20 mana cost).  Like switched with Mind Blast (or switched, but moved up one rung).

[BiggyDX]

Like switched with Mind Blast (or switched, but moved up one rung).

 

If they were to go that direction, than I want some serious fixes to Mind Blast.

[Vertigogo]

This has really moved away from the original question.  I think they just wanted ideas about moving things in trees, not re-balancing every single class.

 

For both hunter and archer, strafing shot needs to be the first thing in the tree.  Just a quality of life issue.  You always want it, and for hunter especially, it takes too long to get.

 

For hunter specifically, hook and tackle needs to be earlier in the tree.  It's a playstyle defining ability, but takes too many levels to get.  God help you if you want to do that and poison.  You have to wait until you're almost max level.  I'd much rather have the whole poison/throwing blades earlier too, since it's really hard to take those abilities and anything interesting from the survival tree.

 

Energy barrage isn't good enough to be so late in the tree.  I'm not sure more people would take it if it was more easily accessed, but it wouldn't hurt.

 

For necro, blinding terror needs to be switched with something more universally useful to the class.  Pretty much any of the other passives in that tree besides pyromancer. 

[Wavebend]

Rogue classes currently suffer a lot due to poor inter-class design, where some fill more roles than they were designed for, and due to poor reliability on higher difficulties.

The archer

The archer currently plays well at close or long range, benefits from various useful CC abilities (caltrops, knockout powder, knockout bomb) that offset the lack of Stealth, benefits from Mark of Death, Opportunity Knocks and Disable, has good AoE-damaging capability and has moderately high Armor Penetration (up to 65% if we consider MoD's upgrade).

With MoD, Leaping Shot and Opportunity Knocks, the archer is by far more efficient than the hunter in taking down single-targets and almost as efficient as the Assassin in that aspect, while completely dominating the ranged aspect with OK + Long Shot.

The assassin

It's clear that the assassin was designed to rely on Stealth at all times. The assassin is only viable for close range, doesn't benefit from any CC abilities (has Stealth instead, and any sort of CC ability would make her a bit overpowered), doesn't have MoD, OK or Disable, has no good AoE-damaging abilities but however has high Armor Penetration (consistent 70% with the Ambush passive).

However, the fact that the assassin has poor ability tracking, doesn't benefit from Disable or MoD and is only playable at melee-range makes her unsuitable to play in many scenarios.

The hunter

This is the only rogue character that doesn't fit the philosophy of squishy + high burst damage. To put it simply, the hunter is an underpowered archer with even worse CC abilities. While he does benefit from similar passives when compared to the archer (such as Disable), his lack of Opportunity Knocks greatly lessens his effectiveness at close-range in comparison to the archer and so does his lack of Armor Penetration (45% max with Gaps In the Armor + Cheap Shot). While he does have Stealth, he doesn't benefit from very useful passives such as "Ambush" or "I was never here" like on the Assassin. His survivability also suffers a lot because of the need to keep track of Line of Sight to damage enemies (unlike Long Shot for archer).

 

What can be done?

 

The archer currently dominates at long range, but also seems to be a bit too effective at short range. With Comatose, Leaping Shot and MoD, coupled with Opportunity Knocks reducing the cooldown of all three, the archer simply makes the hunter irrelevant.

 

In my opinion, the archer should deal high burst damage at long range and low burst damage at short range, while the hunter should deal high burst damage at short range and low burst damage at long range. (The assassin however is in a class of her own for the reasons mentioned above and shouldn't be compared this way)

 

Following this principle, there are only a few ways to accomplish this. The devs either have to buff the hunter in a way where he doesn't become the archer, or they have to nerf the archer and make the abilities exclusive to each other and then buff those afterwards. Here are the changes I'd suggest for the latter:

 

Archer

- Remove Opportunity Knocks

- Remove Leaping Shot

- Buff Long Shot and reduce CD to 6s

- Replace Caltrops with Poisoned Weapons

- Replace Knockout Bomb with the Poisoned passives

 

Hunter

- Replace Full Draw with Knockout Bomb

- Replace Fallback Plan with Caltrops

- Buff Throwing Blades to 200% wep. damage / hit

- Add the flanking passive (25% damage bonus)

 

Assassin

- Reduce the cooldown on Hidden Blades from 28s to 12s

- Replace Bloodied Prey with Disable

 

Why no MoD for the hunter? The Hunter already benefits from the 50% damage bonus out of Stealth which can be applied on Throwing Blades or Leaping Shot. While the archer is the only one with MoD, he cannot benefit from it effectively unless he uses it in teamplay

[Cirvante]

Archer

- Remove Opportunity Knocks

- Remove Leaping Shot

 

This forum really needs the option to dislike posts.

 

But seriously, Hunter can shed aggro by using Stealth while the Archer is a literal aggro magnet and therefore a glass cannon. He can deal ridiculous amounts of damage, but is incredibly squishy on higher difficulties short of high stats and lots of HoK/HoH. I think they sould give the hunter 'I was never here' and perhaps further buff his damage in close combat.

[Wavebend]

This forum really needs the option to dislike posts.

 

But seriously, Hunter can shed aggro by using Stealth while the Archer is a literal aggro magnet and therefore a glass cannon. He can deal ridiculous amounts of damage, but is incredibly squishy on higher difficulties short of high stats and lots of HoK/HoH. I think they sould give the hunter 'I was never here' and perhaps further buff his damage in close combat.

 

So? The Hunter doesn't even come close to the archer in terms of raw DPS and is completely useless in a team environment. Again, as I said, the Hunter needs to be stronger than the Archer in close combat and this won't happen unless you remove leaping shot from the archer or add Opportunity Knocks on the Hunter (stupid choice imo). Keeping OK on the archer is fine if leaping shot is removed

[Hrungr]

This forum really needs the option to dislike posts.

 

But seriously, Hunter can shed aggro by using Stealth while the Archer is a literal aggro magnet and therefore a glass cannon. He can deal ridiculous amounts of damage, but is incredibly squishy on higher difficulties short of high stats and lots of HoK/HoH. I think they sould give the hunter 'I was never here' and perhaps further buff his damage in close combat.

 

I think some people here forget what it's like to play without tons of promotions and HoK gear...

[Cirvante]

So? The Hunter doesn't even come close to the archer in terms of raw DPS and is completely useless in a team environment. Again, as I said, the Hunter needs to be stronger than the Archer in close combat and this won't happen unless you remove leaping shot from the archer or add Opportunity Knocks on the Hunter (stupid choice imo). Keeping OK on the archer is fine if leaping shot is removed

 

The Hunter doesn't need to be stronger in close combat, he needs the ability to go back into stealth after a kill. He'd be like a ranged assassin who can contantly shed aggro and move around placing traps and stuff. Maybe give him Knockout Bomb as well, so he can set up combos.

[Proto]

So? The Hunter doesn't even come close to the archer in terms of raw DPS and is completely useless in a team environment. Again, as I said, the Hunter needs to be stronger than the Archer in close combat and this won't happen unless you remove leaping shot from the archer or add Opportunity Knocks on the Hunter (stupid choice imo). Keeping OK on the archer is fine if leaping shot is removed

 

I think recommendations such as adding "Cull the Herd" and "I Was Never Here" would be plenty to boost it up. Archer is one of those characters I feel is pretty well balanced.