227 réponses à ce sujet

[Wavebend]

The Hunter doesn't need to be stronger in close combat, he needs the ability to go back into stealth after a kill. He'd be like a ranged assassin who can contantly shed aggro and move around placing traps and stuff. Maybe give him Knockout Bomb as well, so he can set up combos.

 

He already can do that to an extent. Stealth's CD is reduced when dealing damage and achieving a kill is far from necessary.

 

Don't get me wrong, the concept of a trapper is great but in practice is unreliable and works horribly. I'd love if Bioware could implement actual working traps (which is why I suggested that the hunter should have caltrops + knockout bomb instead), but ATM it simply doesn't cut it.

[Beerfish]

So? The Hunter doesn't even come close to the archer in terms of raw DPS and is completely useless in a team environment. Again, as I said, the Hunter needs to be stronger than the Archer in close combat and this won't happen unless you remove leaping shot from the archer or add Opportunity Knocks on the Hunter (stupid choice imo). Keeping OK on the archer is fine if leaping shot is removed

He's stronger in close combat because of stealth and spike trap.

 

I have to agree with Cirvante on this one, taking out leaping shot means serious fade time for archers.

[Wavebend]

I think recommendations such as adding "Cull the Herd" and "I Was Never Here" would be plenty to boost it up. Archer is one of those characters I feel is pretty well balanced.

 

Cull the Herd would be great if Fallback Plan's upgrade worked reliably. That isn't the case though. See my answer to Cirvante about "I was Never here"

 

He's stronger in close combat because of stealth and spike trap.

 

I have to agree with Cirvante on this one, taking out leaping shot means serious fade time for archers.

 

MoD, OK and Leaping Shot make the archer stronger in all aspects. Again, (I'm repeating myself) the CC abilities offered by the hunter kit are unreliable and do no good to teamplay

 

I could agree with keeping Leaping Shot in. However, I'd then remove Opportunity Knocks from the archer, leave Long Shot unbuffed and heavily buff Throwing Blades on the Hunter

 

There's a reason why we're seeing 4-archers team easily completing NM runs and no 4-assassins or 4-hunters. It's because the archer is horribly overpowered and you have to admit it. Once you bring all the rogue classes on par then it might be a good time to consider various buffs, though

[Texasmotiv]

The hunter and assassin are high risk/low reward. You can do everything right and still be at the bottom of the scoreboard. If you are going to be so easy to kill you should be rewarded.

I don't think the archer needs to come down, but the two others need to come up to where the archer is.

[llandwynwyn]

The archer is fine as he is, and leaping shot suits his playstyle as well. Remove it to...idk, balance the Hunter? Is just a nerf for no real reason.

[Wavebend]

I don't think the archer needs to come down, but the two others need to come up to where the archer is.

 

I wouldn't say the current archer kit is high risk/high reward. The archer deals high DPS, however consistently and even more so with high crit chance, where I'd expect from most rogues high burst damage (Very big numbers every few seconds instead of big numbers every second). This is why I believed removing OK and buffing Long Shot would've done the job.

 

If OK or Leaping Shot aren't removed, then they both need to be heavily tweaked, and especially OK. I'd certainly prefer a Flow of Battle variant where only your crits affect your CDs (and not the entire team's contribution).

 

Also, I forgot to mention that it's also possible to play around with the threat level passives (such as Peaceful Aura) but I'm not sure how useful these are with high damage outputs.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Nerf, nerf, nerf, quacks the nerfduck. The archer is good at what he does, which is killing things, and bad at not dying. Deal with it. Hunter and Assassin simply need a bit of a rework to tree structure and a couple swapped abilities.

 

Assassin with MoD added would finally be the truly most power single target dps, and it helps the team as well. The way I Was Never Here works needs a change too, because it's incredibly annoying when you OHK something out of stealth and your cooldown doesn't reset because of that silly little half second between stealth breaking and the cooldown starting. Besides that, the necessary abilities at the bottom of her trees need to be moved up.

 

Hunter basically needs all his active abilities to be at the top. You can't have a effective build for him until level 15 or so which is ridiculous. TBH every class could benefit from this, which is what I meant from my post on the first page. 

 

Example using the alchemist, from a thread by FRZN:

 

 

Alchemy tree:

 

 

 

Cunning Tree:

 

 

As you can see, passives are grouped by actives they tie in with. Rework all the kits to look more like this, and builds become available much sooner.

[Cirvante]

Also, I forgot to mention that it's also possible to play around with the threat level passives (such as Peaceful Aura) but I'm not sure how useful these are with high damage outputs.

 

Archer joins game, enemies ignore the warriors close to them and and start running towards him. The threat mechanics don't make a whole lot of sense in practice.

 

I recently played Archer on NM with only 10% HoK (and three other Archers to draw aggro) and I can't really agree with your statement that the Archer is not high risk.

[Pork]

Wavebend must really hate this game. First he begs for spawns to be 'fixed' after he has gotten all his Hakkon weapons by spawn camping, now he wants to make the archer completely useless by removing OK, KB and Leaping Shot.

 

Why don't we just replace all the archers skills with a bottle of jack daniels and a prescription for some anti depressants? Then we can focus on destroying all other classes that are remotely effective.

[Wavebend]

First he begs for spawns to be 'fixed' after he has gotten all his Hakkon weapons by spawn camping

 
Wrong
 

make the archer completely useless by removing OK, KB and Leaping Shot.

 
Except you missed the important part, which was about buffing Long Shot and reducing the CD to 6s. Buffing Full Draw is also a possibility. You also get to keep Knockout Powder as a KB replacement.
 

Why don't we just replace all the archers skills with a bottle of jack daniels and a prescription for some anti depressants? Then we can focus on destroying all other classes that are remotely effective.

 
*buffing
 

The threat mechanics don't make a whole lot of sense in practice.

 
Agreed, shouldn't rely on those
 

I recently played Archer on NM with only 10% HoK (and three other Archers to draw aggro) and I can't really agree with your statement that the Archer is not high risk.

 
Try doing the same with an Assassin
 
  
 
You guys are free to disagree. This is simply my perspective and there's a 99% chance Luke doesn't endorse those changes.

[Drasca]

Add Flow of Battle to Avvar.

[Cirvante]

 Try doing the same with an Assassin.

 

Aside from terrible ability tracking and a lack of consistent DPS, the Assassin is fine. I'd definitely consider her high risk, but at least she can shed aggro with Stealth and Flank Attack. I would like her to get Ambush however, as I previously stated, or short of that a CD reduction for Hidden Blades would be nice.

[Felis Menari]

Add Flow of Battle to Avvar.

Crushing Leap spam, do want.

[Pork]

 
Wrong

 

 

I asked for a spawn camping fix because I thought it greatly reduced the challenge on Nightmare and the time needed to acquire Hakkon weapons. When I posted this issue on the beta forums a bunch of people approved the idea, so it looks like I'm not the only one who thought it was worth a fixing.

 

So not wrong at all. Or are you saying im wrong about the spawn camping? Because you admitted to that here:

 

 

Sure thing. It was the fastest way to complete the runs. However, I wouldn't complain if Luke removed them from my account so I'd have to farm them again the intended way.

 

Seems you had a bit of a selective memory, fortunately quoting can fix that

 

As for your archer suggestions... sleep powder is trash. Long shot is already godly, doesn't need buffs. Archer without OK and Leaping shot would be a terrible terrible kit.

[llandwynwyn]

 

 

 

 

So not wrong at all. Or are you saying im wrong about the spawn camping? Because you admitted to that here:

 

 

 

 

Seems you had a bit of a selective memory, fortunately quoting can fix that

 

As for your archer suggestions... sleep powder is trash. Long shot is already godly, doesn't need buffs. Archer without OK and Leaping shot would be a terrible terrible kit.

 

 

 

Reasons to come to bsn...

[Theghostof_timmy]

 

Reasons to come to bsn...

It would be nice if every thread didn't degenerate into a Pork vs. Drasca vs. Wavebend squabble.

[KalGerion_Beast]

It would be nice if every thread didn't degenerate into a Pork vs. Drasca vs. Wavebend squabble.

I miss the good ol'e days of BSN.  Watch a couple people squabble it out, while everyone else just spams "dis gon b gud" and other random gifs.  

[Thadrial]

Why not give the Keeper Pull of the Abyss, and have the AW take her Disruption Field? Disruption Field would benefit his [AW] defensive capabilities, while PotA gives the Keeper another CC ability; emphasizing her role as a support class. 

That and the keeper only has one weaken skill to go with that entire tree of passives which is ridiculous.

[Denrok1]

Hey, everyone. Looking at making a couple minor changes to the flow of some specific ability trees sometime in the future and I thought it would be a good time to see what everyone thought about the current trees.

 

Feel free to pitch anything from wildly different to very minor. The only caveat is that I'm not looking for any new abilities, though if you think one fits on a different kit better, or not so much on the current one let me know.

 

And obviously, I am not obliged to follow any suggestions, even if they are popular

 

Exchange the templar's singular taunt with warcry. I would like to see another tank out there that can hold aggro than just the lego.

[kmeeg]

I miss the good ol'e days of BSN.  Watch a couple people squabble it out, while everyone else just spams "dis gon b gud" and other random gifs.  

 

dis gon b gud

[Pork]

I miss the good ol'e days of BSN. Watch a couple people squabble it out, while everyone else just spams "dis gon b gud" and other random gifs.

Those days never ended.

See: any thread drasca or medallian ever makes. Any build thread. Any edong thread. Any balance change thread. Any thread complaining about anything.

Seriously, BSN is a cesspool.. Everyone who knows about BSN knows that. Even the devs themselves have admitted that. I come here for two reasons: raw information and entertainment. I have never come to this forum to discuss combat strategy. I doubt many people have.

When i want to discuss this game, i do so with my friends over skype or origin chat rooms.

[KalGerion_Beast]

Those days never ended.

See: any thread drasca or medallian ever makes. Any build thread. Any edong thread. Any balance change thread. Any thread complaining about anything.

Seriously, BSN is a cesspool. Everyone who knows about BSN knows that. I come here for two reasons: raw information and entertainment. I have never come to this forum to discuss combat strategy. I doubt many people have.

Yes, they have ended.

 

I have not seen a single "dis gon b gud" gif anywhere in recent memory.  Now all I see is the fighting, which was only half the entertainment.  

[Pork]

Yes, they have ended.

I have not seen a single "dis gon b gud" gif anywhere. Now all I see is the fighting, which was only half the entertainment.

You clearly missed the snakebite vs drasca thread and Penguins voldemort thread. Not to mention any thread medallian creates.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Nerf, nerf, nerf, quacks the nerfduck. The archer is good at what he does, which is killing things, and bad at not dying. Deal with it. Hunter and Assassin simply need a bit of a rework to tree structure and a couple swapped abilities.

 

Assassin with MoD added would finally be the truly most power single target dps, and it helps the team as well. The way I Was Never Here works needs a change too, because it's incredibly annoying when you OHK something out of stealth and your cooldown doesn't reset because of that silly little half second between stealth breaking and the cooldown starting. Besides that, the necessary abilities at the bottom of her trees need to be moved up.

 

Hunter basically needs all his active abilities to be at the top. You can't have a effective build for him until level 15 or so which is ridiculous. TBH every class could benefit from this, which is what I meant from my post on the first page. 

 

Example using the alchemist, from a thread by FRZN:

 

<snip>

 

As you can see, passives are grouped by actives they tie in with. Rework all the kits to look more like this, and builds become available much sooner.

 

While FRZN's idea was good in concept, it's has issues. Like what if I want Toxic Cloud and Fighting Dirty but do not want Poison Weapons. It's again gating passives behind abilities. It's really difficult to find away around it though without completely reworking the skill trees into a skill "field" (points can be assigned to any node at any time) rather than a "tree" (points can only be assigned to unlocked nodes).

[KalGerion_Beast]

You clearly missed the snakebite vs drasca thread and Penguins voldemort thread. Not to mention any thread medallian creates.

-finally looks at the thunderdome page-

 

I redact my previous statements.

Stay classy, BSN.