227 réponses à ce sujet

[Theghostof_timmy]

While FRZN's idea was good in concept, it's has issues. Like what if I want Toxic Cloud and Fighting Dirty but do not want Poison Weapons. It's again gating passives behind abilities. It's really difficult to find away around it though without completely reworking the skill trees into a skill "field" (points can be assigned to any node at any time) rather than a "tree" (points can only be assigned to unlocked nodes).

Apparently there's a limit to how wide the tree can be, so a tournament bracket-style skill tree is out. As you said, a skill field would be too much work. I would be satisfied if the trees looked more like the archer's and that alchemist tree.

[Cirvante]

There's a reason why we're seeing 4-archers team easily completing NM runs and no 4-assassins or 4-hunters. It's because the archer is horribly overpowered and you have to admit it. Once you bring all the rogue classes on par then it might be a good time to consider various buffs, though

 

Four Archers simply synergize incredibly well with each other, because they all use the same tactics, benefit from each others crits and deal massive amounts of damage which makes it so the enemies die before they can actually hurt the Archers. And even then I went down about two times per run. If you replace the other three characters with lower-DPS kits, then Hall will have a much harder time staying alive, because those five Knights or Horrors he aggro'd with Archer's Lance will actually get in range to kill him.The archer is a glass canon and has absolutely no way of shedding aggro which he has no shortage of.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Apparently there's a limit to how wide the tree can be, so a tournament bracket-style skill tree is out. As you said, a skill field would be too much work. I would be satisfied if the trees looked more like the archer's and that alchemist tree.

 

Honestly, my main point is gating passives behind abilities that restricts me from doing something. If Knife in the Shadows and I Was Never Here are gated behind Stealth, I'd have no problem at all with it... It's natural and can not potentially hinder a build. However, at what point you have to choose an ability you potentially do not want in order to access a single passive, that's a problem to me.

 

Obviously, that's only my opinion.

[Gya]

Add Flow of Battle to Avvar.

This.

I also second the sugetions for the assassin regarding moving KitS and IWNH closer to the start of the stealth tree, levelling her is such a chore.

The assassin is intended to be a high risk, high reward mêlée single target burst damage character.

The high risk is there. Sure, stealth sheds aggro, but if a marksman saw you go into stealth while aiming, they can track you. Archers and horrors can also sometimes randomly target you while you're stealthed even if you entered stealth out of LoS. Add in enemy AoE and odd melee hit boxes, and venatori mine spam, all of which heavily limit your movement. Given the spawn points all over the map, it's very easy to get knocked out of stealth and left trapped in the open. This also completely gimps damage output which relies a lot on KitS for us underpromoted scrubs. High risk, all well and good. I approve of this, actually.

However, the reward is underwhelming. In NM, there are far too many high priority units and high HP and armour units for her to be of much use. Sure, she can burst down one pride demon or venatori mage, but what about the other 3, and the hundreds of despair demons or spellbinders?

Her spike damage is closely linked to auto-crit from stealth. Adding mark of death would help with bosses, but do little to alleviate the general inability to kill the vast number of high priority targets wandering around.

I would suggest losing poison weapons, since crappy dot seems counter to her role, and replacing it with throwing blades. Also, perhaps move deathblow closer to the start of the tree so it isn't so point heavy to take it.

And evasion is 2op, I'm sure the telemetry data will show how everyone takes it ASAP, pls nerf.

TL;DR buff assassin pls because I love assassin and I am a special snowflake.

[starrks]

I went through this thread and didn't see anyone mention veilstrike. It is outclassed by every other cc ability the keeper and aw have. I don't even know what I would replace it with, but it appears to be used so little no one even remembered to bring up how unhelpful it is. And unless disruption field weakens enemies it is the basis for a lot of passives. Stonefist would be cool as a replacement but she'd basically be another aw.

[Dragkonias]

Don't know if its been said but I have a few suggestions for moving about the templar tree.

-Put Maker's will where Champions of the Just is. Put There Is No Darkness in MW original spot. Put Mage Slayer where TiND used to be. And put CotJ where MS used to be. Think that flows better overall.

-Bear Mauls the Wolves makes more sense on the Sentinel tree so move out there. And put Deep Reserves or Flow of Battle where it used to be. Then move Guard Smasher in one of those slots.

-Move Horn of Valor where Valiant is. Then move Crippling Blows where HoV used to be. And Valiant in CB old spot.

-Replace Challenge with Warcry. Switch Warcry/Cutting Words with Unbowed.

-Maybe consider not having Blessed Blades be the first divine skill. Maybe switch it with Spell Purge or one of the combat skills.

[Theghostof_timmy]

I went through this thread and didn't see anyone mention veilstrike. It is outclassed by every other cc ability the keeper and aw have. I don't even know what I would replace it with, but it appears to be used so little no one even remembered to bring up how unhelpful it is. And unless disruption field weakens enemies it is the basis for a lot of passives. Stonefist would be cool as a replacement but she'd basically be another aw.

Hm. Maybe make veilstrike stun and/or weaken? It wouldn't affect the AW at all since he doesn't have any eldritch detonators AFAIK, but on the keeper she could detonate with EB. There, EB and veilstrike made viable in one stroke

[starrks]

Hm. Maybe make veilstrike stun and/or weaken? It wouldn't affect the AW at all since he doesn't have any eldritch detonators AFAIK, but on the keeper she could detonate with EB. There, EB and veilstrike made viable in one stroke

Also, the aw has the same passives for weakened enemies, but better actives that cause it, like stonefist an pota. Maybe some damage?

[KalGerion_Beast]

Hm. Maybe make veilstrike stun and/or weaken? It wouldn't affect the AW at all since he doesn't have any eldritch detonators AFAIK, but on the keeper she could detonate with EB. There, EB and veilstrike made viable in one stroke

He has both mind blast and Dispel as eldritch detonators.  

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Hm. Maybe make veilstrike stun and/or weaken? It wouldn't affect the AW at all since he doesn't have any eldritch detonators AFAIK, but on the keeper she could detonate with EB. There, EB and veilstrike made viable in one stroke

 

Or just make Veilstrike have a shorter cool down and a lower mana cost, and maybe make the knockdown last longer. Simple fixes.

[Kriztofer]

Swap the places of walking bomb and horror on the necromancer. Pretty much everyone uses walking bomb for her but horror is more of a niche ability. Would make her more fun at level 1, too.

[Dragkonias]

Another suggestion. Maybe give the Necromancer Phasing(Fade Shield might be too powerful on that class).

And maybe buff Phasing to like 10 or 15%

Edit: On actually playing her again I think she does need Fade Shield.

[Felis Menari]

Or just make Veilstrike have a shorter cool down and a lower mana cost, and maybe make the knockdown last longer. Simple fixes.

Didn't the original form of Veilstrike (Fist of the Maker I think it was called) have an upgrade in DA2 that stunned enemies it hits, and made them slow to get up? That would go a long way towards making it a good spell, me thinks.

[konfeta]

It also did damage and was a combo detonator.

 

Poor thing got ripped to shreds with its green glowy "update."

[Dragkonias]

Also, another suggestion.

Stamina isn't that big of an issue for the Katari. So having two stamina skills at the start of his Onslaught tree seems redundant. I think a good change would be switching Grisly Mutilation and Warrior's Resolve.

Also maybe switch Opportunist with Scenting Blood as the former seems more niche.

Actually, maybe replace Opportunist with Deathblow.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Didn't the original form of Veilstrike (Fist of the Maker I think it was called) have an upgrade in DA2 that stunned enemies it hits, and made them slow to get up? That would go a long way towards making it a good spell, me thinks.

 

Unfortunately, Stun has more implications in this game, and Veilstrike already Weakens with the upgrade.

 

My idea:

 

Veilstrike

Area of Effect: 5 metres

Cool Down: 12 seconds

Cost: 35 mana

*Enemies slow to get up

 

Punching Down (Upgrade)

Area of Effect: 5 -> 8 metres

Cool Down: 12 -> 8 seconds

Cost: 35 -> 20 mana

*Inflict Weakened Status Effect

 

So reduce the cool down to 12 seconds at base and make enemies slow to get up, then make the Punching down upgrade increase the AoE from 5 to 8 and reduce the cool down from 12 to 8 and cost from 35 to 20 while inflicting Weakened.

[CitizenThom]

So from the above... Hunter (which was much more fun once I discovered hook and tackle) should have the following improvements:

 

Hook and tackle available sooner (first couple branches of tree)

Toxic Cloud halfway up tree.

Stealth instead of fallback plan at level 1.

and either 'I was never there' passive or Knockout Bomb to manage hate.

Caltrops

 

Hook Tackle/Leaping Shot/Pincushion is his only damage spike move (weak compared to archer, assassin. comparable to shadow strike on alchemist)

 

All the above changes simply make Hunter a better support character, the archer will still be the big hitter of the bowmen... the hunter will just have more tools to support by softening up and/or slowing down enemies with light aoe damage.

 

 

Alternatively, give hook and tackle a 2 sec stun,  and create a new passive that puts the Hunter in Stealth the moment a trap (Toxic Cloud, Spike Trap, Caltrops, Elemental Mines) is triggered. That starts giving the Hunter a unique flavor of trap man.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

I miss the good ol'e days of BSN.  Watch a couple people squabble it out, while everyone else just spams "dis gon b gud" and other random gifs.  

I was particulary fond of Gallowspole vs Sirian(if remember correctly)&Co. debates about game mechanics(and PC vs consoles in general)

[Zantazar]

It would be nice if every thread didn't degenerate into a Pork vs. Drasca vs. Wavebend squabble.

 

Ehmmm ... you must not say that. I have had my arse smacked by Pork already for complaining about this and that I need to stay on topic (like the way that he/she does) 

 

Zan the Man has a Plan

[Pork]

-finally looks at the thunderdome page-

I redact my previous statements.
Stay classy, BSN.

[Dieb]

So? The Hunter doesn't even come close to the archer in terms of raw DPS and is completely useless in a team environment. Again, as I said, the Hunter needs to be stronger than the Archer in close combat and this won't happen unless you remove leaping shot from the archer or add Opportunity Knocks on the Hunter (stupid choice imo). Keeping OK on the archer is fine if leaping shot is removed

 

The highlighted part irks me, frankly.

 

If you insist on playing a character a certain way and end up getting subpar results, maybe stray from the beaten path a little. I'm not saying you aren't knowledgable in what you're generally saying, but if there's anything I'd claim for myself, it's probably very in-depth knowledge of this particular class. Whether it's taken seriously or not, and I do have my derpy days regardless of class; yet I consider myself to be a "valuable member" of the team, the way I play the Hunter.

 

With Stealth, Fallback Plan (the one you suggested to be deleted - there is a reason this is a starting skill, and there is a reason he fights in dangerous ranges as a squishy character) & Spike Trap+ is easily one of the most useful get out-of-jail-free-cards in a Perilous match, to any team. I managed to get my entire squad back on their feet with a little patience and win a seemingly doomed match after all, numerous times.

 

The Archer can do damage, and then he can also do some more damage. Nobody ever argued that. He also gets some of those abilities, but while it would ruin his other great advantages, the addition of Stealth in the Hunter's case, paired with those is a complete game changer.

 

So no, you can't just spam active skill and get great results. But that's not what the problem is. Also, I have no idea why you would suggest making the Archer weaker. What problem would that possibly solve for whom?

[Da_Noobinator]

Dieb, do you think the Hunter would be more balanced, or rather stupidly OP, if he had access to I Was Never Here to remove Stealth's cooldown? (I haven't read the entire thread, sorry if this has been discussed already).

If he'd lean more towards being more balanced, it could be placed in a pronged upgrade after Stealth, on the same tier as Knife in the Shadows. If he'd lead more towards being OP, what if it were placed after Easy to Miss?

[Dieb]

Dieb, do you think the Hunter would be more balanced, or rather stupidly OP, if he had access to I Was Never Here to remove Stealth's cooldown? (I haven't read the entire thread, sorry if this has been discussed already).

If he'd lean more towards being more balanced, it could be placed in a pronged upgrade after Stealth, on the same tier as Knife in the Shadows. If he'd lead more towards being OP, what if it were placed after Easy to Miss?

 

More than anything he needs a detonator.

 

And the "Flanking Fire" Passive the Archer has. That would grant him a (theoretical) constant ~90% Passive damage bonus ("Throatcutter" taking over "First Blood" eventually). It's very wonky math, but it's safe to say it would be a great aid.

 

Yeah, "I Was Never Here" would help greatly, even though I can imagine combined with Watch Your Step, it could get ridiculous. Still, the Hunter lacks the DPS to make even that OP, so I don't see the problem.

[T_elic]

The one thing i find irritating is that some skills are so damn high into a skill tree. The hunter, alchemist and templar builds i play need to level up to 15 before i have access to all 4 abilities i want to use. I'd love to see all abilities ralatively low placed in the trees.

[Beerfish]

I was particulary fond of Gallowspole vs Sirian(if remember correctly)&Co. debates about game mechanics(and PC vs consoles in general)

Gallows pole was a good man.  He deserves to be honoured.