83 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Don't know if it would be cryosleep exactly as that would be treading new ground in terms of in universe tech. I'm thinking that someone reverse engineering those Prothean stasis pods from Ilos being the most likely deus ex machina that gets us there. Someone from the Council species went there between ME1 and 2, otherwise Anderson would not have been able to tell you about Vigil shutting itself down. This would give them 3 years to put the project into motion.

Geth themselves are going to be a problem though, far moreso than quarians, because they are invariably hostile to organics up until the exact same point wherin they or the quarians can be severely depleted in number or destroyed, which would require a canon or a serious asspull. They aren't individuals, so there isn't even room there for "exiles" , escapees from the battle or indentured servants or whatever other isolated excuses one could use to include some quarians despite losing the battle for Rannoch.

Yeah, the stasis pods on Ilos or the one Javik was in could be used to reverse-engineer them and is one of the most likely explanations for part of the trip to Andromeda. 

 

No, the Heretics were. The Geth themselves only ever fought in self-defense.

And sure there are. Geth being around regardless of what happens on Rannoch is canon, they like the Quarians are just a lot fewer in number.

[Quarian Master Race]

No, the Heretics were. The Geth themselves only ever fought in self-defense.
And sure there are. Geth being around regardless of what happens on Rannoch is canon, they like the Quarians are just a lot fewer in number.

That is patently false. Nevermind that killing 99.5% of a population of 2 billion in "self defense" is demographically impossible, the geth indiscrimanately murdered members of other species during the rebellion (Erinya's partner as an example). Further, according to the Revelation novel, the Council sent muliple peace envoys after the quarian genocide and Exodus. All were slaughtered by the geth, a policy which continued for 300 years before the Heretics even existed. ME3s geth biased portrayal of the universe history doesn't actually contradict or retcon any of this.

Just because Legion showed you a very selective propaganda slideshow and claimed moral superiority doesn't actually change the facts. No organic species in universe considers the geth(not just Heretics) anything but a hostile faction. In fact, if you don't activate Legion in ME2, no organic in the galaxy even ever learns what a Heretic is.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That is patently false. Nevermind that killing 99.5% of a population of 2 billion in "self defense" is demographically impossible, the geth indiscrimanately murdered members of other species during the rebellion (Erinya's partner as an example). Further, according to the Revelation novel, the Council sent muliple peace envoys after the quarian genocide and Exodus. All were slaughtered by the geth, a policy which continued for 300 years before the Heretics even existed. ME3s geth biased portrayal of the universe history doesn't actually contradict or retcon any of this.

Sure it can. The Geth saw them as a threat, thus eliminated them to eliminate the threat. That's the definition of self-defense. Now yes the Geth were wrong to do that, but it doesn't change the fact that the reason they did it was for the purpose of self-defense. The only time any Geth ever attacked for reasons other than that was with the Heretics.

 

Just because Legion showed you a very selective propaganda slideshow and claimed moral superiority doesn't actually change the facts. No organic species in universe considers the geth(not just Heretics) anything but a hostile faction. In fact, if you don't activate Legion in ME2, no organic in the galaxy even ever learns what a Heretic is.

And this is objectively false. No matter what you do in ME2 or ME3, there are Geth platforms that are seen among the other races as allies against the Reapers. Most can be seen as enemies, but the same can be said of other races that become allies during the war, like the Batarians, Krogan, and Rachni. 

[Quarian Master Race]

Sure it can. The Geth saw them as a threat, thus eliminated them to eliminate the threat. That's the definition of self-defense. Now yes the Geth were wrong to do that, but it doesn't change the fact that the reason they did it was for the purpose of self-defense. The only time any Geth ever attacked for reasons other than that was with the Heretics.


And this is objectively false. No matter what you do in ME2 or ME3, there are Geth platforms that are seen among the other races as allies against the Reapers. Most can be seen as enemies, but the same can be said of other races that become allies during the war, like the Batarians, Krogan, and Rachni.

Stop arguing semantics. Perception is irrelevant, if ti wasn't legitimate self defense than it wasn't self defense at all. I can't claim home invasion and shoot the new neighbors when they come and knock on my door with a gift, and slaughtering children, geriatrics, neutral species and peace envoys is exactly that. The organics view the geth as hostile right up to potentially allying with them in the Rannoch arc, and rightfully so.

I assume you are refering to the (optional DLC, I might add) geth characters in multiplayer? Yes, you're correct, though I would like to know how they are capable of speech and other high level thought processes if you don't allow the geth to have Reaper code. That would retcon Legion's assertion that it is the only platform whose architecture is advanced enough to do such things singlehandedly.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Stop arguing semantics. Perception is irrelevant, if ti wasn't legitimate self defense than it wasn't self defense at all. I can't claim home invasion and shoot the new neighbors when they come and knock on my door with a gift, and slaughtering children, geriatrics, neutral species and peace envoys is exactly that. The organics view the geth as hostile right up to potentially allying with.them in the Rannoch arc.

I assume you are refering to the (optional DLC, I might add) geth characters in multiplayer? Yes, you're correct, though I would like to know how they are capable of speech and other high level thought processes if you don't allow the geth to have Reaper code. That would retcon Legion's assertion that it is the only platform whose architecture is advanced enough to do such things singlehandesly.

Perception is never irrelevant. The Geth at the time operated solely on logic, and 100% of the time organics attacked them thus it is only logical that these new people will too. Eventually they evolved past that and they recognized the difference, but you can't disregard that at the time they literally did not know better. That's why punishments for children and punishments for adults involving crime are treated differently. Or would you give a five year old who fired a gun the same sentence as a 25 year old who fired a gun? 

 

Yes, I am referring to that.

They built a platform with Legion's capability once so why can't they do it again? In fact, we know that they're capable of doing it more than once by looking at Not-Legion. Legion only asserts that in ME2 anyway. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I'd like to see a suit-less Quarian... as long as it's dead.

[Quarian Master Race]

Perception is never irrelevant. The Geth at the time operated solely on logic, and 100% of the time organics attacked them thus it is only logical that these new people will too. Eventually they evolved past that and they recognized the difference, but you can't disregard that at the time they literally did not know better. That's why punishments for children and punishments for adults involving crime are treated differently. Or would you give a five year old who fired a gun the same sentence as a 25 year old who fired a gun? 

 

Yes, I am referring to that.

They built a platform with Legion's capability once so why can't they do it again? In fact, we know that they're capable of doing it more than once by looking at Not-Legion. Legion only asserts that in ME2 anyway. 

Broken logic, which makes it no wonder that the quarians rightfully attempted to deactivate and reprogram the malfunction. Every organic they ever met obviously didn't attack them. Geriatrics and infants can't hold a gun, but they were slaugtered nonetheless. But nevermind that, their own propaganda video even shows a not insignificant number of quarians (nevermind the other species that had no quarrel with them, such as Erinya's asari partner or the Council peace envoys) attempting to protect them, they ackowledge this. So "100% of the time organics attacked them" is insane logic or yet more Legion propagandized doublethink. Whether or not you think they've the right to self determination is irrelevant, they're genocidal and indiscriminate participants in unnessesary mass murderers of billions of organics. Quit trying to candy coat it.

Did you really just compare software programs that are, in large networks, cabaple of quadrillions of calculations per second and have unfathomable levels of data storage to a 5 year old child? Stop anthropomorphizing the things, or do you think EDI has the same ability to reason as an infant? Hell, a large portion of the geth were built as machines of war, literal killing machines. They know what killing is. They were programmed for it. They did it to their creators and the Council species on purpose due to flawed coding. There is a mass grave that one could fit modern China and India's populations that they are responsible for. Even if they were comparable to a "five year old" (they aren't), yes, I would kill that five year old without question if it somehow managed to kill thousands of people intentionally. Seems like a logical public safety decision. One death is an accident. Two billion+ is malicious intent.

Geth being playable in multiplayer was a mistake specifically for the monumental lore asspulls needed to justify their presence there for anyone who destroyed them (especially if you did it intentionally like I did). I'd seriously doubt that could be used as a reasonable basis for including them in anything in ME:A, especially considering that they were optional DLC. Nonetheless, I've a feeling bioware won't give up it's precious pinnochios and all the lore written for them either way, and am expecting an asspull or a canon that includes them.

[SolNebula]

I would love more Quarians in MEA. I do however kind of hope considering that this game happened long after ME3 that they sort of improved their immunitary system. Damn that troll of Javik telling me Quarians are good looking. Well I hope they will be tackling this issue and create a viable face for them.....not the ME3 stuff they did. For Quarians being in Andromeda I guess they can totally share the Ark with the Turians. not sure how they will get along but it's the most reasonable choice. Tali seems to love turian chocolate!

[9TailsFox]

Lets pretend this never hapen and have new looks for Quarians.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lets pretend this never hapen and have new looks for Quarians.

I liked Tali's appearance. It fits how Quarians were described to look like in the books. 

[9TailsFox]

I liked Tali's appearance. It fits how Quarians were described to look like in the books. 

My biggest problem she is human with cybernetic implants. This one much better alien and looks good.

 

Like Thane don't look human still look good.

[Quarian Master Race]

I liked Tali's appearance. It fits how Quarians were described to look like in the books. 

I thought the actual manner in which they created that photo was extremely lazy(especially the hand and fingers are essentially a human hand cut in half down the middle, and don't at all match the proportions of her character model), but actually I'm fine with the design as well, apart from wishing that there were more implementation of cybernetics than what looks like subdermal circutry. Quarians were supposed to be more cyborg than other species.

The actual hairstyle is a bit impractical (considering the suit) and coincidentally close to a modern Caucasian human too, but having evolved to be carriers of seeds and pollen in their ecosystem and biosphere, it makes sense that they have body hair.

[DaemionMoadrin]

The actual hairstyle is a bit impractical (considering the suit) and coincidentally close to a modern Caucasian human too, but having evolved to be carriers of seeds and pollen in their ecosystem and biosphere, it makes sense that they have body hair.

 

Yup, all over their bodies.

[Quarian Master Race]

My biggest problem she is human with cybernetic implants. This one much better alien and looks good.

 

 

Like Thane don't look human still look good.

 

Problem with that photo is that it contradicts the description in Asencion. It is stated there that quarians have very small ear analouge structures compared to humans, but hers are huge, even larger than a humans. Further, the eyes are far too dark.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Problem with that photo is that it contradicts the description in Asencion. It is stated there that quarians have very small ear analouge structures compared to humans, but hers are huge, even larger than a humans. Further, the eyes are far too dark.

 

I mentioned that picture was drawn a long time ago and I don't know if the artists read the books.

 

I would have thought you'd be in favor of better Quarians instead of defending a badly shopped stock photo and other lazy sheningans of BioWare.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

Yup, all over their bodies. 

There's nothing to say that there isn't, but it would also depend on their evolutionary history over the past few million years or so as they became social animals capable of tool use (and thus evolutionary pressures changed). Human ancestors from even half a million years ago such as Homо-Erectus likely looked similar to apes in that regard, but modern humans have less, and there is also a androgenic dimorphism factor at play (males have more and in a larger number of places). Further we've only seen a females head, and haven't seen a male at all (except a very blurry one in the background of the quarian-geth peace ending slide).

 

I would have thought you'd be in favor of better Quarians instead of defending a badly shopped stock photo and other lazy sheningans of BioWare.

Meh, I'm not really defending it. I think it was lazily done, but I'm fine with the actual concept at least and it doesn't contradict any previously established lore or seem like overtly bad science (at least by the rules of the setting). It's more I don't understand most of the fuss about it. Personally, I think it misses the point of the species and characters anyway.

Edit: really, I have to switch keyboard to cyrillic to type homо? Since when is that a swear? Fuсking ridiculous

[Laughing_Man]

Meh, I'm not really defending it. I think it was lazily done, but I'm fine with the actual concept at least and it doesn't contradict any previously established lore or seem like overtly bad science (at least by the rules of the setting). It's more I don't understand most of the fuss about it.

 

Edit: really, I have to switch keyboard to cyrillic to type homо? Since when is that a swear? Fuсking ridiculous

 

 

The picture looks completely human. One human-like race is a stretch that can be explained with prothean genetic vandalism, but two?...

 

And yeah, I noticed that myself regarding the automatic censorship, I mean, it's forbidden to say ******-sapient?

Seems rather childish. But being overly PC is a thing with BW.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

 

Edit: really, I have to switch keyboard to cyrillic to type homо? Since when is that a swear? Fuсking ridiculous

 

 

They filter profanity and slurs, and unfortunately people do use that as a slur.

[Laughing_Man]

They filter profanity and slurs, and unfortunately people do use that as a slur.

 

People use "gay" as slur too. So?

[Quarian Master Race]

The picture looks completely human. One human-like race is a stretch that can be explained with prothean genetic vandalism, but two?...

 

The ears and eyes are different, and she has a (poorly photoshoped) tridactly hand. Besides, why would the protheans make asari look like humans considering they look nothing like Protheans (and judging by Javik's comments clearly consider their own form superior)? What purpose does that serve? 

If anything, another species that looks similar to humans and asari just makes their in universe similarities seem less contrived, since then a convergent evolution hypothesis is more feasible.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

People use "gay" as slur too. So?

People label themselves as gay, that's the difference. Same reason why homosexual isn't flitered but the abbreviation is.

[Han Shot First]

Lets pretend this never hapen and have new looks for Quarians.

 

 

[PresidentVorchaMasterBaits]

Lets pretend this never hapen and have new looks for Quarians.

 

GRAAAGH!!! FIRST TIME VORCHA SAW THIS IN GAME, VERY DISPLEASED! WE LOVED TALI ONLY TO GET STOCK IMAGE WITH CRAPPY PHOTOSHOP JOB! LOOKED LIKE IT WAS MADE BY BLIND VARREN!! BIOWARE LAZY!! WE BURNED PICTURE  AND THEN SENT NASTY LETTER TO BIOWARE!! GRRRAAAAAAAGGHH!!! TOLD THEM ALL THE WAYS VORCHA WAS GOING TO BURN THEM FOR BREAKING VORCHA'S HEART!!! STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!!!!

[Quarian Master Race]

GRAAAGH!!! FIRST TIME VORCHA SAW THIS IN GAME, VERY DISPLEASED! WE LOVED TALI ONLY TO GET STOCK IMAGE WITH CRAPPY PHOTOSHOP JOB! LOOKED LIKE IT WAS MADE BY BLIND VARREN!! BIOWARE LAZY!! WE BURNED PICTURE  AND THEN SENT NASTY LETTER TO BIOWARE!! GRRRAAAAAAAGGHH!!! TOLD THEM ALL THE WAYS VORCHA WAS GOING TO BURN THEM FOR BREAKING VORCHA'S HEART!!! STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!!!!

You can help me burn down biower's headquarters if I don't get quarians in this game. We'll throw in a demand for a better redesign.

[Han Shot First]

The slide of an unmasked Quarian in Synthesis looks slightly better than the Tali reveal. That one has a more 'alien' skin tone at least.

 

Unfortunately it requires Synthesis to see it.