118 réponses à ce sujet

[hoechlbear]

I agree with the human only. If they can't get the time and resources to make the different races worth it by creating exclusive content to each race (like DAO) then I don't see why they should give us the option to choose. It will most likely happen like DAI and the PC will turn out to be another character with a bland personality and no background because it has to fit all races and they won't have the time to make each race meaningful.

 

As for the focus on one city, I agree to some extent. I loved the city of Novigrad in TW3, it was big and full of NPCs and great quests. I sure do hope that DA4 will have a city like that, that feels real and alive. But I also hope it will have a couple of other maps tied to the main story and that we can explore freely. Also much like TW3. Basically what I don't want is another 10 huge maps with nothing but wilderness.

 

I don't care what the story is about as long as it's good and connected to the PC, and not the cliche saving the world type of thing again.

[Graywolfe]

If they do a separate starting story line for each race like DAO then I want multiple races. I played through ever origin with evey class option just to see how it went cause for me they were that much fun. If they are going to have one standard start then I guess it doesn't matter about race as long as we can change the appearance and customize the PC to our own liking. That was one thing that really really irked me about DA2. DAI was more like Skyrim's start while that isn't bad it also isn't great either. I like the Witcher series and TES and DA but I like them all because they do thing differently I don't wan't them to all be alike. So let TW3 keep the preset protag and TES the one start for all PCs and DA have diverse opening story lines. Let each game series be true to themselves and not try and copy the other guy.

[RenAdaar]

I really hope DA4 is in tevinter with a slave background I want to cause a rebellion so bad damn it.

[duckley]

That would be one game that I wouldn't buy - sorry but I hate the idea....Elven uprising please!

[Saphiron123]

That would be one game that I wouldn't buy - sorry but I hate the idea....Elven uprising please!

I don't think bioware could handle the elven uprising, all the grittiness, the racism, the realism was taken out of dai... hell, even the qunari are super inclusive now. For that, they'd need to tell a story with suffering and real emotion, they'd have to show the war unfolding.

I don't think Gaider would be down with that, he wants a world where everyone hugs it out, and sadly, that's what dragon age has become.

[Winged Silver]

Hmm...I see where you're coming from with this.

 

There's one thing I might disagree one though.

 

I think Bioware has actually done alright in past titles with the inclusion of multiple races. Yes, parts of Inquisition were a little lacking, in the sense that we didn't have much of an origin story...and our elven Inquisitors are cultural miscreants ("Who is this Mythal?  )..and as far as I know no one says anything about a dwarf of all things entering the Fade...

 

BUT I'd think they could consider this a learning experience. In Origins, there were a fair number of small encounters that referenced your class/race. I feel that having a better grasp on the graphics engine, development schedule, and console abilities (i.e. not having to account for a wide disparity in technology) would allow them to make a fuller experience for players in the future.

 

I have no strong feelings on whether or not we remain in one city, so long as it's appropriately robust for an AAA title. One advantage might be that fewer resources spent on creating widely contrasting environments means more resources for cutscenes. Or whatever. I don't really know how they allocate these sorts of things.

 

Your example, Minrathous...I would love to play a character who's origin is based on class. Human mage? Top of the pile. Elven commoner? Slave! It'd be interesting to see mages in a more negative light (DA2 had, arguably, some of the more prominent 'evil' mages, but we always had Hawke or Bethany to play the morally upright or at least not totally evil mage), and we've yet to really explore Tevinter culture. 

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

DAI shouldve been like the Witcher 3 . Alive , filled with cities , villages , winds , night day system , better loot , better armor , better feel to it . More tensions , more consequences in the dialogues , more meaningful side quest...etc....

Witcher 3 locks you into playing ONE character.  It's not an RPG, it's a visual novel.  You don't get any actual character choices about your character, it's all prechosen for you.  @#$% THAT!

[Super Drone]

Sigh. RPGs are not defined by custom protagonists. At least not outside of Bioware fandoms' heads.

[The Ghost]

I like your suggestion OP, but I don't like the limited choices for race. Let's be real here, DAO was good because it had 3 different races with several backgrounds to choose from... this was what was giving the depth of the character...

 

Now I read around the suggestions that someone proposed more than just one main town and I am all up for that, and I will tell you why... everything in one game is like a chain, if you have 1 city you will have 1 character... but if you have multiple cities... than you can have multiple races and backgrounds, because those cities will have different zones... Royal Palace, Slumbers, Normal living people, High Society living people... this is like 4 different backgrounds, 4 different locations to start with, 4 different start quests and how you've been led to become the one which you will be mainly in game... and from there we can move on to the main story line...

 

I would like to suggest here something... because of the last events in DAI, may be in this game the developers can concentrate over rebuilding the society which was ruined, for example... If you choose to support the templars in your DAI experience and end up killing the mages, then in DA4 you should concentrate over rebuilding the mage society and vice verse... this gives 2 main story lines which can be followed and if we add the Gray Wardens Order... these are 3 different main story lines... each one of them can be developed in a way...

 

For example, a new threat of a Blight may happen in the next few years, there have been signs... pointing this out... and at the end to end up, being just a false signs and actually the big threat have been something else... for example... ancient society who have been thought to be dead and being legend have actually being still alive and active, but in the shadows... which leads to the Warden orders, because only they can defeat this society, because they use those false Blight threats as their main source of power and they plan to control it and use it for their aim.

 

Literally I can come up with at least 10 different main story lines, and having the mixture of the previous games... the vast fiction which we have for Dragon Age, is so absent that is big as the space itself... and Bioware can come up with the game for few years forward if they really decide to do it... yes developing will take time, and our time is not unlimited, but I think that one great game can be created... for 2-3 years of developing and if I know Bioware well, they probably have already started coding and developing the game and have it done at least 10-15%... 

[line_genrou]

Witcher 3 locks you into playing ONE character. It's not an RPG, it's a visual novel. You don't get any actual character choices about your character, it's all prechosen for you. @#$% THAT!

LOL.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Sigh. RPGs are not defined by custom protagonists. At least not outside of Bioware fandoms' heads.

Funny, for my last 34 years of gaming the term RPG meant Role-Playing-Game and involved creating a custom character to portray.  Perhaps it is you that is misunderstanding the term and have been misusing it.

[Jazpar]

Be locked to play human? One city? Nah. Im okay with a less "lets save the world" story but not human only in one town. I didn't buy DA2 until right before DAI released. And it was for only 50Kr(like 5 dollars).

[ashwind]

And again we are arguing about what an RPG is and some feel that their definition is the definitive one. Such arrogance. They will soon be arrogant enough to tell me the right way of eating an egg and what is the best toppings for pizza.

 

I am pretty sure Ultima V VI VII are not RPGs because you are the human Avatar.       One of the most renounced wRPG? BS right? 

 

Multiple races is fine IF the developers can handle it especially in a game like DA because it requires a lot of work.

 

However when done poorly with bad lore and world planning, it creates plot holes after plot holes and you have to cover one inconsistency after another:

 

- Oh Dwarves cant enter the Fade... opps Dwarf Warden is in the fade running around transforming and throwing fireballs. Err... ok Codex is wrong and err err nothing you read is definitive. (We Bioware reserve the right to change whatever and whenever we like)

 

- The famous mage Elven Inquisitor who is the FIRST to the keeper dunno about Mythal... wow.. Really??   I fear for the future of that Dalish clan, I really do. Maybe the Keeper sent them there to die so they can pick a better successor.

 

With limited resource (time to market and maximizing profit), Bioware should seriously consider down scaling their character selection. Go for the quality over quantity approach.

[Jazpar]

And again we are arguing about what an RPG is and some feel that their definition is the definitive one. Such arrogance. They will soon be arrogant enough to tell me the right way of eating an egg and what is the best toppings for pizza.

 

I am pretty sure Ultima V VI VII are not RPGs because you are the human Avatar.       One of the most renounced wRPG? BS right? 

 

Multiple races is fine IF the developers can handle it especially in a game like DA because it requires a lot of work.

 

However when done poorly with bad lore and world planning, it creates plot holes after plot holes and you have to cover one inconsistency after another:

 

- Oh Dwarves cant enter the Fade... opps Dwarf Warden is in the fade running around transforming and throwing fireballs. Err... ok Codex is wrong and err err nothing you read is definitive. (We Bioware reserve the right to change whatever and whenever we like)

 

- The famous mage Elven Inquisitor who is the FIRST to the keeper dunno about Mythal... wow.. Really??   I fear for the future of that Dalish clan, I really do. Maybe the Keeper sent them there to die so they can pick a better successor.

 

With limited resource (time to market and maximizing profit), Bioware should seriously consider down scaling their character selection. Go for the quality over quantity approach.

If I remember correctly, dwarves don't dream and go to the fade. Ancient magic like in DAI puts them physically there affected by outside magic not the inner connection to the fade.

[ashwind]

If I remember correctly, dwarves don't dream and go to the fade. Ancient magic like in DAI puts them physically there affected by outside magic not the inner connection to the fade.

 

I was referring to the DAO Warden who was put to sleep in the Mage Tower. The Dwarf Warden was not physically in the Fade but was there dreaming. I recall hearing something that the demon sucked his soul into the Fade... okay... right. Nevermind, I aint that picky.

 

What I am getting at is, a voiced and conversation heavy game like DA. Multiple origins and race creates a huge amount of work. Compromises to the story and plot as well sometimes. If they can manage the work go ahead. Otherwise, the other option is worth considering.

[Jazpar]

I rather they skipped the voiced PC and have more options instead of having voiced with less option.

[The Ghost]

All I see that after my comment and suggestion, people start arguing once more over stuffs which are pointless... instead of them, concentrating over giving feedback and suggestions for the new game... How can we make a bioware game with ideas from us if there is such chaos in here... please people let's concentrate and actually start giving feedback with our own ideas or point out in much more depth why we don't like what someone else proposed... and let's not make excuses with the resources... it's not up to us... I am sure that Bioware would agree with me... we should concentrate over giving feedback of what we want instead of concentrating over what shouldn't be there and where resources should be put... I am more than sure that Bioware is capable of putting their resources to the right direction, if the right feedback is given.

 

@ashwind, even though I agree with most of what you said... let's not forget what made DAO successful... it was exactly the in depth story lore, with multiple backgrounds and races... what made DAO successful was also the companions in depth personality... you were actually torn apart between being the well known kind hearted hero or using your full powers and become the evil heartless guy... you had to make choice in each city... from which the city outcome will follow... you could either decide to let the Earl die or help him out and heal him.... you had a choice with the ritual at the end of the game, letting Alistair do it, or doing it yourself... you had vast amount of choices... the next thing which pushed DAO to success, was the Companions interactions... their in depth personality (Leliana, being a bard, knowing stories and having to become stronger so she could stand for herself... Zevran torn apart between his choices of staying in your party or stabbing you in the back (the back valley anyone?), Alistair... to become a king or not, to take that female (I don't remember her name) as his queen or take you as a queen...) there was vast, vast amount of choice where your character was torn apart or your companions for that matter... their personal story quests... the emotional acting of the Actors... the game was amazing because of all of this... the world was vast toon and it was quite in depth...

 

So I certainly disagree with your thinking that 1 character and 1 city, will make up for it... I just can't see that happening... 

 

@Jazpar, I strongly disagree with you here is why:

 

Your character being voiced by the amazing Actor who played Hawk, was quite unique experience, it made the game even more enjoyable and if the first game had this voice acting for the main character would have been even better than it is... 

 

The most exciting thing about DA2 for me, was the voice acting I was truly looking forward to it, because I knew that it will make our characters a lot more in depth. I just loved to hear my character actually speaking and not just starring at the person before him, who talked to him... the second thing for which I was quite excited in DA2 was that all characters were bi, it made the game so much fun for me, I could flirt with whomever I wanted... yea the experience wasn't so great when I had a female flirting with my female Hawk (so I understand the straight males who had their Male Hawk, hit by the male companions in the game)... but as soon as I told them no, none of them brought it up anymore... it was unique experience...

 

What ruined the gameplay for me, was the monotonous gameplay, and the story which was far from in-depth, if Bioware have concentrated over the romance than they've done poor job, because they could have done it a lot more in depth. To reach the point in which your character is officially with that companion and get in his bed, was rather fast paces which I extremely disliked... I don't dislike fast paced romances and sexual interactions, but not so fast as the ones in Dragon Age, if there were at least 50% more in depth, and 50% more longer until you get the trust of that companion, to be your lover, to be your bed partner... I think that this game would have been much more entertaining from Companion Romances. If we had more companion based quests and more peek in their life, to actually feel, see with our own eyes and heart what they've been through, with additional Companion tasks, than DA2 would have been a lot more enjoyable for everyone. Bringing up DAO again for a bit, when you wanted to open a romance option with certain character, you had to do the first steps towards it, however what I liked in DAO was that you have to work with that companion a lot to accomplish his attraction, towards you. In DAI, there was this options of being able to try and romance Cullen or Cassandra, and they will simply and politely tell you that they are not into that, which I loved even thought it disappointed me greatly that I couldn't experience their romance. 

 

A thing which ruined a bit DAI for me, was that you couldn't romance everyone no matter of your character gender. The one which I wanted to romance in DAI was Cullen, and I was forced to create a female Inquisitor so I can trigger his romance options... and that ruined for me. When Bi-Cullen mode came out, I was relieved, that I could finally romance Cullen with my Male Inquisitor and this greatly improved my gameplay experience. I loved that I could finally romance the one I wanted and actually his romance options I think were the greatest in DAI, his romance scenes, his personality it was so in depth, so lovely, and I couldn't disagree that I felt this same vibe which I felt in DAO when I finally could romance Alistair with my Male Warde, again with the help of a mod... so my suggestion for this is, make an option at the character creation, where you can pick Sexual Orientation, this way the game can concentrate over your sexual preferences and unlock the romance options for this sexual orientation, while keeps the rest of them locked.

 

For example, you create a Male Hero, who is gay... you pick his class, his background, his race and as you go throughout the game, you won't be hit by your woman companions, but your male companions will constantly try to flirt with you. Same goes vice verse, if you pick Straight sexual orientation and you play a Male Hero, than all your female companions will try to flirt with you or have their romance option opened for you, while your male companions will be just your friends... or bros as some Straight males like to tell.

 

Another example, let's say that you don't mind having all romance options opened for you, and that you don't mind other males to flirt with your Male Hero, then if you pick up bi-curious for example, you will be lightly hint by your companions that they might like you, want to flirt with you and so on... but if you are someone who enjoys fully on both romances, then pick the option bisexual... then all your companions will hit on you and try to flirt with you...  

[ashwind]

@ashwind, even though I agree with most of what you said... let's not forget what made DAO successful... it was exactly the in depth story lore, with multiple backgrounds and races... what made DAO successful was also the companions in depth personality... you were actually torn apart between being the well known kind hearted hero or using your full powers and become the evil heartless guy... you had to make choice in each city... from which the city outcome will follow... you could either decide to let the Earl die or help him out and heal him.... you had a choice with the ritual at the end of the game, letting Alistair do it, or doing it yourself... you had vast amount of choices... the next thing which pushed DAO to success, was the Companions interactions... their in depth personality (Leliana, being a bard, knowing stories and having to become stronger so she could stand for herself... Zevran torn apart between his choices of staying in your party or stabbing you in the back (the back valley anyone?), Alistair... to become a king or not, to take that female (I don't remember her name) as his queen or take you as a queen...) there was vast, vast amount of choice where your character was torn apart or your companions for that matter... their personal story quests... the emotional acting of the Actors... the game was amazing because of all of this... the world was vast toon and it was quite in depth...

 

So I certainly disagree with your thinking that 1 character and 1 city, will make up for it... I just can't see that happening... 

  

 

It is about compromise and sacrifice. Do you think Bioware will go back to a silent protagonist? Do you think players will accept that?

 

When we use a voice PC, it is not the same as simply selecting a line, it is about making a conversation, making it interesting and natural. With multiple races, the lore dictates that the conversations will have to be different. The companions will have different conversations. This requires a lot of resource, time and work.

 

From what I am seeing, Bioware is having trouble tackling in so much content - DAI for example, Skyhold is the climax and the game shows clear signs of neglect after that and the ending sequence is abysmally bad.

 

So instead of making a half-cooked product, why not consider 1 PC (1 city is maybe too little). This will allow them to produce at least double the story content as oppose to having 4 races - (time saved from producing conversations)

 

I am not saying I like this approach BUT if they are not capable of handling such a huge and complex game, I wont mind them scaling back and giving me more quality over quantity. If they can and if they are capable of handling more, multiple races, multiple origins, etc. I want that too. I just dont think that they are capable... so...

[Dutch's Ghost]

I'd also like them to cut back on the illogical gender equality. It's quite silly that half the fighting force in Ferelden and Orlais are women...come on......................

[line_genrou]

I rather they skipped the voiced PC and have more options instead of having voiced with less option.

 

It ended up that Mass Effect and DA were sort of merged

ME has a more friendly approach for the people who aren't/weren't used to the RPG heavy role play.

A bunch of people played ME first and then went to DAO and didn't like it as much because your PC didn't have a voice and too many choices with no dialogue wheel.

 

EAware biggest mistake was to not let each franchise do their own thing. They wanted DA to embrace the ME crowd, but ME was not a heavy RPG. It was action oriented/shooter/RPG. And NOW, the ME/non-RPG people think that a "true RPG" needs to have voiced PC and the freaking dialogue wheel with 3 choices. Oh yeah, I'm role playing...

 

I guess Planescape Torment is not an RPG. None of the Final Fantasy games are RPGs  because, you know, no CC.

[The Ghost]

It is about compromise and sacrifice. Do you think Bioware will go back to a silent protagonist? Do you think players will accept that?

 

When we use a voice PC, it is not the same as simply selecting a line, it is about making a conversation, making it interesting and natural. With multiple races, the lore dictates that the conversations will have to be different. The companions will have different conversations. This requires a lot of resource, time and work.

 

From what I am seeing, Bioware is having trouble tackling in so much content - DAI for example, Skyhold is the climax and the game shows clear signs of neglect after that and the ending sequence is abysmally bad.

 

So instead of making a half-cooked product, why not consider 1 PC (1 city is maybe too little). This will allow them to produce at least double the story content as oppose to having 4 races - (time saved from producing conversations)

 

I am not saying I like this approach BUT if they are not capable of handling such a huge and complex game, I wont mind them scaling back and giving me more quality over quantity. If they can and if they are capable of handling more, multiple races, multiple origins, etc. I want that too. I just dont think that they are capable... so...

 

That is the place were I agree with you, if they can't handle it, then they shouldn't do it, but if they can handle it and I am pretty sure they can if they really want to... I think it will bring back the old feel of DA from DAO.

 

 

It ended up that Mass Effect and DA were sort of merged

ME has a more friendly approach for the people who aren't/weren't used to the RPG heavy role play.

A bunch of people played ME first and then went to DAO and didn't like it as much because your PC didn't have a voice and too many choices with no dialogue wheel.

 

EAware biggest mistake was to not let each franchise do their own thing. They wanted DA to embrace the ME crowd, but ME was not a heavy RPG. It was action oriented/shooter/RPG. And NOW, the ME/non-RPG people think that a "true RPG" needs to have voiced PC and the freaking dialogue wheel with 3 choices. Oh yeah, I'm role playing...

 

I guess Planescape Torment is not an RPG. None of the Final Fantasy games are RPGs  because, you know, no CC.

 

Voice Over, has nothing to do with one game being an RPG, I don't know from where you've taken this assumptions, but the voice over is a vital plus to a game, because it gives character much in depth story. But not having it, doesn't mean that a game is not an RPG, it just means that this RPG is missing a vital modern addition, which makes a game even more entertaining. I don't think it's that big deal, if the actor will voice 10 lines or 20 lines... 

 

 

I'd also like them to cut back on the illogical gender equality. It's quite silly that half the fighting force in Ferelden and Orlais are women...come on......................

 

I can't disagree with that... it's well known fact that most of the fighting force in medieval time is always 80-90% males, not females... but that my personal opinion and based upon our world facts. But a nice 50/50 equality is great.

[ashwind]

That is the place were I agree with you, if they can't handle it, then they shouldn't do it, but if they can handle it and I am pretty sure they can if they really want to... I think it will bring back the old feel of DA from DAO.

 

 

I wish that you are right. I hope that I can share your optimism but I just cant. Bioware today is simply not the Bioware that produce DAO that many years ago. 

[Sunnie]

 

I'd also like them to cut back on the illogical gender equality. It's quite silly that half the fighting force in Ferelden and Orlais are women...come on......................

 
 I can't disagree with that... it's well known fact that most of the fighting force in medieval time is always 80-90% males, not females... but that my personal opinion and based upon our world facts. But a nice 50/50 equality is great.

 

While it is true during our own history through the middle/medieval ages where men kept women no better than inept property and baby makers, this is Thedas, a completely different world based only loosely on our own history. If women had the rights and lack of repression during our middle ages like we do today (which still isn't great in many cultures), I would hypothesize that women would have played a more similar part in the world and military as they do in Thedas.

 

OFC I am talking in general terms now, I know there are some of us women who are incapable of even tying a shoe lace (same with men but I digress).

[The Ghost]

While it is true during our own history through the middle/medieval ages where men kept women no better than inept property and baby makers, this is Thedas, a completely different world based only loosely on our own history. If women had the rights and lack of repression during our middle ages like we do today (which still isn't great in many cultures), I would hypothesize that women would have played a more similar part in the world and military as they do in Thedas.

 

OFC I am talking in general terms now, I know there are some of us women who are incapable of even tying a shoe lace (same with men but I digress).

 

I knew that someone from the feminine side will quote me up for that... just want things clear. I am not saying the females can't fight or stand on their own, hell there is woman who can be stronger than a male. What I meant is that, most of the time, being a warrior, Knight, Soldier etc... the statistics are always more on the side of the males... because most of the mans have this desire to prove themselves, fight, go berserk and so on and on, while females can do the same... they are less common, so I agree with the poster that Bioware should have thought about that, before making 90% of the forces, females in the game.  

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I guess Planescape Torment is not an RPG. None of the Final Fantasy games are RPGs  because, you know, no CC.

 

Planescape Torment is my LEAST favorite of the old Infinity Engine games, BUT the structure of that particular game required that you start amnesiac and your in-game CHOICES determined who you discovered yourself to be later on.  Less freedom than my preferred character-creation process in some ways, but STILL CREATING overall.

 

And yes, the FF series are not RPG's, they are visual novels.  Most so-called Japanese RPG's are not true Role-Playing-Games, they are Visual Novels, and in fact the term "Visual Novel" was coined by and for the fanbase of those style of games to differentiate themselves from true RPG's.  They tell a story, you get to play along with the story, but your character is not your own and your decisions have very little to do with how anything unfolds.