118 réponses à ce sujet

[Andraste_Reborn]

So you want 100% of the warriors in the game (speaking mob Non PC Controlling NPC's), be just women?

 

Has anyone ever asked for that?

 

after all in DA3 they did like 70-80% forces females

 

That's simply not true. Most of the Inquisition soldiers are male. Most of the Templars are male. Most of the bandits are male. I don't recall seeing any women at all among the Venatori, the Red Templars, the Carta, the Order of Firery Promise ... so where, exactly, are the forces in Inquisition that have 70-80% female warriors?

[Brass_Buckles]

So you want 100% of the warriors in the game (speaking mob Non PC Controlling NPC's), be just women? Because we argue exactly for that... how would I know that in the next game they won't do exactly that... after all in DA3 they did like 70-80% forces females... somehow doesn't fit in the world no matter how I see it... I don't mind having woman fighting, but over 50% is a bit too much and unrealistic... even if this is a game were we have fireballs, lightning bolts, killing dragons and shits... You will ask me why I think so.. well excuse me, but all I see in the woman body build in Dragon Age Inquisition (disculudding Cassandra) is a normal human body build as our woman body build, yea I agree for Cassandra being a warrior, hell we need at least 30% of these... but the rest... they don't fit that role... and right now you disclude enjoyment of other people... let's not be focused over just one gender, that what 95% of the guys ask here... we want equality... you've never seen somewhere in the other comments, saying 'don't include at all female warriors' they said we want more equality... where woman are not the main force in the world... because feels out of place... in the first 2 games as far as I remember we still had female warriors, but the most where males... you can't out of nowhere suddenly turn all this force into females... it doesn't fit the previous two games lore.

 

In agreement with Andraste Reborn, no one's asking for 100% female forces.

 

Also, at least 75% of the fighters in DAI were men.  Your perception that there are more likely has something to do with the fact that a group of people with 1/3 women is perceived as being more than 50% women, especially in the media.  Most of our warriors in the game are men.  Most of the enemy soldiers you meet?  Men.  I sincerely doubt if women even make up 50% of Inquisition soldiers.

 

It is also a fantasy game, so, in fact, if they did want to make 100% of some group's fighting forces female?  Guess what, they could.  I'm not asking for it and I don't know of anyone else asking for it, but if the developers genuinely wanted to go that route, there's zilch you or I could do to stop them.

 

What I'm saying is that it's ridiculous that people want to keep saying "OMG there shouldn't be women fighters at all!" when you are referring to a game where you can throw chain lightning at your enemies.

 

Why precisely does it bother you that much to have maybe 30% of warriors be women in a game?  Because that's actually not that far off from actual honest-to-goodness human history, in various actual real-world wars.  Maybe there are as many as 40% in game, and that's not that outrageous either.  But it's definitely not anything near 70-80%.  I guarantee you if you count them you will quickly discover otherwise.

[The Ghost]

In agreement with Andraste Reborn, no one's asking for 100% female forces.

 

Also, at least 75% of the fighters in DAI were men.  Your perception that there are more likely has something to do with the fact that a group of people with 1/3 women is perceived as being more than 50% women, especially in the media.  Most of our warriors in the game are men.  Most of the enemy soldiers you meet?  Men.  I sincerely doubt if women even make up 50% of Inquisition soldiers.

 

It is also a fantasy game, so, in fact, if they did want to make 100% of some group's fighting forces female?  Guess what, they could.  I'm not asking for it and I don't know of anyone else asking for it, but if the developers genuinely wanted to go that route, there's zilch you or I could do to stop them.

 

What I'm saying is that it's ridiculous that people want to keep saying "OMG there shouldn't be women fighters at all!" when you are referring to a game where you can throw chain lightning at your enemies.

 

Why precisely does it bother you that much to have maybe 30% of warriors be women in a game?  Because that's actually not that far off from actual honest-to-goodness human history, in various actual real-world wars.  Maybe there are as many as 40% in game, and that's not that outrageous either.  But it's definitely not anything near 70-80%.  I guarantee you if you count them you will quickly discover otherwise.

 

Well I haven't seen more than once or twice this comment and this was a while ago... but no one else have ever said (including me), that there shouldn't be female fighting force. Hell I am okay if one group is made fully of female force, but to not be upon the whole game lore. I love Cassandra, she is different, and I will love more like her, but not all of the fighting force like her... wouldn't be fair. Equality is the key here... and I don't see why we even argue for more of the one gender or the other... 50/50 and that it... 

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

One last thought on the "OMG women fighting in a game/beating men in combat is so unrealistic!" crowd...

In Dragon Age, I can throw fireballs and lightning from my hands.

I can take four people equipped with daggers up against a thick-scaled beast larger than an elephant, which also flies and breathes fire, and those four people can kill that animal.

Yeah, I really don't think, for a fantasy game, that it's so far-fetched for women to be highly effective warriors.

And you know what else? I'm tired of people trying to take away women's power fantasies. Yes, I know most women aren't as strong as most men (at least in upper body strength). But this is a game, which I play for fun. I am not a particularly strong person in real life. I am also not able to change the entire world, in real life--I lack that level of influence. I doubt if most of the male players who play this game are all that strong (sure there are probably some), and I sincerely doubt many of you have massive influence over world politics. So instead of trying to take away someone else's enjoyment of a fantasy game where they can actually achieve great things, why don't we all just enjoy it? Because it's fantasy. And the moment you have people throwing fireballs and lightning bolts, you pretty much lose your claims to "realism."

In the interest of throwing names around. Read up on Lyudmila Pavlichenko; her story shows rather clearly the non-existent difference between men and women in war, but the very real difference in our modern culture's perception. Sgt. Tatyana Danylyshyn just took home 1st place in an International Shooting Competition. And Ronda Rousey is easily one of the most skilled fighters the UFC has ever seen.

Ask anyone who has served in any disciplined military division and they'll lecture you on the irrelevance of auxiliary body strength. You can either do the job, or you can't, and many women are doing the jobs.

There's nothing imaginary or fantastical about strong capable women serving their countries on the front lines. It's been happening throughout history, and it is still happening. Any argument against these facts is a personal problem, and has no connection to reality.

The habitual extinguishing of female power-fantasies is indeed an issue. It is in part because the majority of male power-fantasies revolve around saving a helpless woman. The unfortunate power of synonymy makes them seam incompatible. Bioware’s work alone undoes the irreverent stupidity within the space that it exists, but this synonymy is widespread and influential. Most of our culture is saturated with men saving women.

[The Ghost]

*sighs* With some people you can't come up on top... I will just like to move this conversation and energy to more benefitting one... and to concentrated over your suggestions for DA4 and what you would like to see in it... 

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Well I haven't seen more than once or twice this comment and this was a while ago... but no one else have ever said (including me), that there shouldn't be female fighting force. Hell I am okay if one group is made fully of female force, but to not be upon the whole game lore. I love Cassandra, she is different, and I will love more like her, but not all of the fighting force like her... wouldn't be fair. Equality is the key here... and I don't see why we even argue for more of the one gender or the other... 50/50 and that it...

I mentioned before, Thedas is rather matriarchal in the south, because Andraste. The opposite is true for Tevinter, hence no female Venatori. Also, if you actually count the female/male ratio you'll see there is nothing wrong. There are in fact many more male soldiers than female, you're just interacting with women more. This is no doubt deliberate on behalf of Bioware--they're trying to represent women better.

Think of it this way; as gamers, we are very used to only seeing men as soldiers, for whatever reason, but we become desensitised to it. Ten soldiers, you count three females. Do this ten times and you've got thirty female soldiers in your head. That's a lot! Well, no, you're just not recalling the seventy male soldiers.

[line_genrou]

One last thought on the "OMG women fighting in a game/beating men in combat is so unrealistic!" crowd...

 

In Dragon Age, I can throw fireballs and lightning from my hands.

 

I can take four people equipped with daggers up against a thick-scaled beast larger than an elephant, which also flies and breathes fire, and those four people can kill that animal.

 

Yeah, I really don't think, for a fantasy game, that it's so far-fetched for women to be highly effective warriors.

 

And you know what else?  I'm tired of people trying to take away women's power fantasies.  Yes, I know most women aren't as strong as most men (at least in upper body strength).  But this is a game, which I play for fun.  I am not a particularly strong person in real life.  I am also not able to change the entire world, in real life--I lack that level of influence.  I doubt if most of the male players who play this game are all that strong (sure there are probably some), and I sincerely doubt many of you have massive influence over world politics.  So instead of trying to take away someone else's enjoyment of a fantasy game where they can actually achieve great things, why don't we all just enjoy it?  Because it's fantasy.  And the moment you have people throwing fireballs and lightning bolts, you pretty much lose your claims to "realism."

 

You like it, some people don't. You should accept other's opinions when you want others to respect yours.

I'm a woman and I don't like females with slim bodies holding great swords. I imagine someone very strong to wield those.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

You like it, some people don't. You should accept other's opinions when you want others to respect yours.
I'm a woman and I don't like females with slim bodies holding great swords. I imagine someone very strong to wield those.

Historical swords are forty/fifty inches and weigh one/two kilograms. Every weapon found in Dragon Age is completely, laughably, historically inaccurate. Real greatswords that rival the relative dimensions of Dragon Age swords, like the Zweihander, are ceremonial in nature, and impractical on the field.

On top of that, Bioware like almost every other developer, model their women warriors like Victoria Secret models. They're not meant to look strong or realistic.

Many women practice HEMA today and are frighteningly good at it.

[Wolven_Soul]

Except we can only expect poor execution from Bioware nowadays. Lessening the choices of your PC to either male human or female human will give Bioware more breathe and room to create a well defined, and well written protagonist.

Besides, it's just a waste of resources to create these race options when 3/4 of players pick human....

 

Do you have something to back that up with?  Because last I heard anyone say anything about it, more people played as Qunari than anything else.  I have made 4 characters myself, not one of which was human.  Two Qunari, 2 Elves.  If....BIG if...I make another one, it will be a dwarf.

[Wolven_Soul]

I agree with the human only. If they can't get the time and resources to make the different races worth it by creating exclusive content to each race (like DAO) then I don't see why they should give us the option to choose. It will most likely happen like DAI and the PC will turn out to be another character with a bland personality and no background because it has to fit all races and they won't have the time to make each race meaningful.

 

As for the focus on one city, I agree to some extent. I loved the city of Novigrad in TW3, it was big and full of NPCs and great quests. I sure do hope that DA4 will have a city like that, that feels real and alive. But I also hope it will have a couple of other maps tied to the main story and that we can explore freely. Also much like TW3. Basically what I don't want is another 10 huge maps with nothing but wilderness.

 

I don't care what the story is about as long as it's good and connected to the PC, and not the cliche saving the world type of thing again.

 

They have the resources to do it.  They are backed by EA after all.  As for the time...that is again up to EA.  

[Wolven_Soul]

Witcher 3 locks you into playing ONE character.  It's not an RPG, it's a visual novel.  You don't get any actual character choices about your character, it's all prechosen for you.  @#$% THAT!

 

There is a place for both custom and pre made characters in RPGs.  You can slam Witcher 3 for only letting you play as Geralt that you want, he has a much richer history than any PC in any Bioware game ever.

 

I am perfectly okay with that sometimes.  

[Wolven_Soul]

Funny, for my last 34 years of gaming the term RPG meant Role-Playing-Game and involved creating a custom character to portray.  Perhaps it is you that is misunderstanding the term and have been misusing it.

 

So amazing games like Final Fantasy 6, 7, 8, the Breath of Fire series...are not RPGs because they have pre made characters?  A role playing game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting.  In no way does that limit the term to games featuring only custom made characters.  The only one here misunderstanding the term is you.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Do you have something to back that up with?  Because last I heard anyone say anything about it, more people played as Qunari than anything else.  I have made 4 characters myself, not one of which was human.  Two Qunari, 2 Elves.  If....BIG if...I make another one, it will be a dwarf.

 

BioWare said in a recent interview that 80% of Inquisition PCs were human. This is about the same percentage as Origins.

 

We don't know how the remaining 20% breaks down yet, so no word on exactly what proportion of PCs were elves/qunari/dwarves.

[Wolven_Soul]

It is about compromise and sacrifice. Do you think Bioware will go back to a silent protagonist? Do you think players will accept that?

 

When we use a voice PC, it is not the same as simply selecting a line, it is about making a conversation, making it interesting and natural. With multiple races, the lore dictates that the conversations will have to be different. The companions will have different conversations. This requires a lot of resource, time and work.

 

From what I am seeing, Bioware is having trouble tackling in so much content - DAI for example, Skyhold is the climax and the game shows clear signs of neglect after that and the ending sequence is abysmally bad.

 

So instead of making a half-cooked product, why not consider 1 PC (1 city is maybe too little). This will allow them to produce at least double the story content as oppose to having 4 races - (time saved from producing conversations)

 

I am not saying I like this approach BUT if they are not capable of handling such a huge and complex game, I wont mind them scaling back and giving me more quality over quantity. If they can and if they are capable of handling more, multiple races, multiple origins, etc. I want that too. I just dont think that they are capable... so...

The only way I can be happy with only having one race choice...is if that choice is something other than human.  Playing as a human in a game where I have race choices always bores me.  If the next game only has one race choice, it better be Elven, Dwarven, or Qunari.

[Wolven_Soul]

Planescape Torment is my LEAST favorite of the old Infinity Engine games, BUT the structure of that particular game required that you start amnesiac and your in-game CHOICES determined who you discovered yourself to be later on.  Less freedom than my preferred character-creation process in some ways, but STILL CREATING overall.

 

And yes, the FF series are not RPG's, they are visual novels.  Most so-called Japanese RPG's are not true Role-Playing-Games, they are Visual Novels, and in fact the term "Visual Novel" was coined by and for the fanbase of those style of games to differentiate themselves from true RPG's.  They tell a story, you get to play along with the story, but your character is not your own and your decisions have very little to do with how anything unfolds.

 

Wow...I don't think you understand what either role playing games or visual novels are.  The Walking Dead, Wolf Among us, Tales from the Borderlands...those are visual novels.  Final Fantasy is a role playing game.  

 

Oh, and the ability to make decisions is not a definitive characteristic of a role playing game.  You are playing a role...that is all that matters.

[Wolven_Soul]

Sunnie, that doesn't matter. Even today why do you think that the U.S. military and other Western militaries are almost 90% male? Because war is the province of men, not women. Biologically speaking, women can't handle the pangs of battle against a male opponent in the medieval age unless they're Brieanne of fcking Tarth - which 99% of them aren't. I know it's fantasy and DAverse is liberal as heck but I just can't stretch my imagination enough to accept that a thinly slender woman in armour can out pummel brutish and often big and thick men. Sorry.

 

Out pummel?  No, duck and weave and shove a dagger into the heart or the neck?  Certainly.  A male Elf is pretty thin and slender, but no one questions their ability to fight in any fantasy world I have ever heard of.

[Wolven_Soul]

Historical swords are forty/fifty inches and weigh one/two kilograms. Every weapon found in Dragon Age is completely, laughably, historically inaccurate. Real greatswords that rival the relative dimensions of Dragon Age swords, like the Zweihander, are ceremonial in nature, and impractical on the field.

On top of that, Bioware like almost every other developer, model their women warriors like Victoria Secret models. They're not meant to look strong or realistic.

Many women practice HEMA today and are frighteningly good at it.

 

That is quite true.  Most of the two handed weapons in DA would be impossible for even men to wield efficiently.  Even Vikings, some of the burliest warriors in history, more commonly used a one handed weapon and a shield.  

 

Also, I would like to see someone tell a Maiden of the Spear that she can't be a warrior.  

[Wolven_Soul]

BioWare said in a recent interview that 80% of Inquisition PCs were human. This is about the same percentage as Origins.

 

We don't know how the remaining 20% breaks down yet, so no word on exactly what proportion of PCs were elves/qunari/dwarves.

 

Fair enough, still don't wanna play as a human myself though.  If DA4 comes out and I can only play as a human, that will greatly affect my decision to buy it in a negative way.  And as it is, I am already planning on waiting a few weeks after it comes out before I even begin to consider buying it.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Fair enough, still don't wanna play as a human myself though.

 

Same here - I'm more of a dwarf girl, personally. However, given that people who play non-humans are a distinct minority, I would understand if BioWare decided not to invest in other races in the future. (Still hope they do, though.)

[ashwind]

The only way I can be happy with only having one race choice...is if that choice is something other than human.  Playing as a human in a game where I have race choices always bores me.  If the next game only has one race choice, it better be Elven, Dwarven, or Qunari.

 

That is so base. 

 

Why not select any race you want and when you start the game you die within 5 minutes. Then a spirit possessed you and you become Justice(or any virtue) 2.0. So, you can look human, dwarf, elf, quanari but you are actually a spirit trying to make sense and blend in.   

 

[edit]

Kinda like Cole 

[Wolven_Soul]

That is so base. 

 

Why not select any race you want and when you start the game you die within 5 minutes. Then a spirit possessed you and you become Justice(or any virtue) 2.0. So, you can look human, dwarf, elf, quanari but you are actually a spirit trying to make sense and blend in.   

 

[edit]

Kinda like Cole 

You know what....I would like that.  

[Dutch's Ghost]

In the interest of throwing names around. Read up on Lyudmila Pavlichenko; her story shows rather clearly the non-existent difference between men and women in war, but the very real difference in our modern culture's perception. Sgt. Tatyana Danylyshyn just took home 1st place in an International Shooting Competition. And Ronda Rousey is easily one of the most skilled fighters the UFC has ever seen.

Ask anyone who has served in any disciplined military division and they'll lecture you on the irrelevance of auxiliary body strength. You can either do the job, or you can't, and many women are doing the jobs.

There's nothing imaginary or fantastical about strong capable women serving their countries on the front lines. It's been happening throughout history, and it is still happening. Any argument against these facts is a personal problem, and has no connection to reality.

The habitual extinguishing of female power-fantasies is indeed an issue. It is in part because the majority of male power-fantasies revolve around saving a helpless woman. The unfortunate power of synonymy makes them seam incompatible. Bioware’s work alone undoes the irreverent stupidity within the space that it exists, but this synonymy is widespread and influential. Most of our culture is saturated with men saving women.

Do you think Ronda Rousey can go toe-to-toe with Anderson Silva or any skilled UFC mma fighter? Because if she can't which I know she can't then that's the reason it's illogical for most women being able to fight men in DA. Note I said most because some can fight however DAI represents and shows to many female fighters. Ridiculous in my opinion and it has nothing to do with male power fantasies. Just logic and reason and I don't care if there are dragons and magic - it doesn't matter. I don't see women having the weight or testosterone to fight male opponents in infantry clashes. In mass effect I never would have such a problem because shooting is different from using a sword and shield.

[Dutch's Ghost]

Do you have something to back that up with? Because last I heard anyone say anything about it, more people played as Qunari than anything else. I have made 4 characters myself, not one of which was human. Two Qunari, 2 Elves. If....BIG if...I make another one, it will be a dwarf.

No, most people played male human. You have evidence to the contrary?

[nightscrawl]

Do you have something to back that up with?  Because last I heard anyone say anything about it, more people played as Qunari than anything else.  I have made 4 characters myself, not one of which was human.  Two Qunari, 2 Elves.  If....BIG if...I make another one, it will be a dwarf.

 

I'd ask the same of you re: backing up the claim. Saying you "heard" something isn't really enough. I really highly doubt that more people played as Qunari than anything else simply because statistics from games like DAO with multiple race choices do bear out that human is (far and away) the primary choice. Even adding the additional Qunari race for DAI, I might expect the figure for humans to still be about 60-70%.

 

A significant number of people don't even finish the game a single time, for various reasons. There are also people who might make a character to test it out, thus adding to the telemetry, and decide to not play for whatever reason and make something else. Also, people who have multiple playthroughs, and make multiple characters (many on these forums) are in the minority.

 

Telemetry data is only numbers and it can't be known just why a player made this or that choice, which IS important. If a player decides to not do a romance it doesn't mean that they don't like the idea of romance or don't care about them and could certainly mean that they weren't satisfied with any of the options, or perhaps they preferred to RP a 'forever alone' Inquisitor (or Warden or Hawke). I bet there were many people that played though every single DAO origin option just to see them all because they're all short and simple, and then went with human as their primary race. Those incomplete games also add to the stats, but can't tell us why the person stopped playing.

[line_genrou]

Try limit the races to only human is a step backwards.

I rather they work on all the races to make it more immersive, like it was in DAO. We need an origin to our character. I don't need a text telling me what he was before the freaking conclave. SHOW ME.

 

But you know, I will be surprised if they actually go back to that.