645 réponses à ce sujet

[Heyokah]

As far as I can remember there isn't an option to have sex with it.

 

That said I can admit defeat, I mean I even did so in this thread when I acknowledged my attempts to mend rifts and educate you all had failed due to your unwillingness to learn, I was naive in thinking I could teach the Dragon Age fanbase the basic principles of mathematics.

Oh you again....well tell ya what we can agree to disagree.  btw - name more than 8 romanceable characters in TW3 or shut the **** up.

 

edit - you keep talking out your arse because you can't defend this mythical mathematical principle you espouse.  Your simple crocodile equation does not equate when you give ZERO evidence to support it.  This crocodile equation which you have used to insult people has no factual basis thus you and every argument you shall put forward hereafter is complete bovine feces.  My 8 oranges trumps your 11 piles of BS.

 

8 > BS

[Queen Skadi]

Really? Who is s/he?

 

 

Yeah I am sure all the SJWs are fuming right now ready to go into a rant about how tasteless and insensitive the Witcher is to minorities but I feel this is a more accurate and respectful depiction of transgender people in video games.

[Queen Skadi]

Oh you again....well tell ya what we can agree to disagree.  btw - name more than 8 romanceable characters in TW3 or shut the **** up.

 

And you people constantly tell me I am being rude, I mean correct me if I am wrong but I never told other people to "shut the **** up" for the grievous sin of trying educate people.

 

I am not trying to hurt you Heyokah and maths is not your enemy, it can be a powerful ally when it comes to tallying numbers!

[Heyokah]

And you people constantly tell me I am being rude, I mean correct me if I am wrong but I never told other people to "shut the **** up" for the grievous sin of trying educate people.

 

I am not trying to hurt you Heyokah and maths is not your enemy, it can be a powerful ally when it comes to tallying numbers!

Oh please, let me be the 1st to say unabashedly, unashamedly, and unequivocally that you should shut the **** up.  You are full of **** and you, myself, and most everyone else here knows it.  

 

Want a powerful ally Skadi?

 

That ally is to know when to be quiet.  I shall take my own advice but I already know you must have the last word so have fun with that.

 

Enjoy whatever life you are experiencing and I wish you a rather lukewarm best.

 

 

 

Toodles!

[Al Foley]

On this subject recently I got through Novigrad.  Or been getting through Novigrad, almost about ready to jump ship and head onto Skellige...after I finish Descent of course.  This whole area is the one thing that has really made me fall in love with the game and the character writing is stellar.  BUT, on the subject of one (yet another thing) that DA I does better then the Witcher is...its portryal of religion.  The writing, which has been varying from very good to down right amazing, has really fallen off a cliff when it comes to the flame of the eternal fire.  Just horrible, horrible writing.  Some of the worse portryals of religion, and indeed anything, I have ever seen in fiction.  COmpare that to the deep, varied, nuisanced, 'gray' Chantry, and it does not even hold a candle.  

 

Yeah I am sure all the SJWs are fuming right now ready to go into a rant about how tasteless and insensitive the Witcher is to minorities but I feel this is a more accurate and respectful depiction of transgender people in video games.

Uh...no...not really.  At least not to me.  I mean now that you raise the point I am even more confused with him then I was with Krem.  To me this guy barely even qualifies as a transvestite considering he just occasionally likes dressing up as women.  From time to time.  For a gag.  He is perfectly able to dress up as a man as well.  

[KBomb]

I suppose you are right, Elihal does not possess the level of delusion and self righteous indignation required to consider himself transgender.

Oh, that's nasty and unnecessary. 

 

[Dread-Reaper]

 

Yeah I am sure all the SJWs are fuming right now ready to go into a rant about how tasteless and insensitive the Witcher is to minorities but I feel this is a more accurate and respectful depiction of transgender people in video games.

Thing is, he's not a transgender, just a cross-dresser.

[Dread-Reaper]

On this subject recently I got through Novigrad.  Or been getting through Novigrad, almost about ready to jump ship and head onto Skellige...after I finish Descent of course.  This whole area is the one thing that has really made me fall in love with the game and the character writing is stellar.  BUT, on the subject of one (yet another thing) that DA I does better then the Witcher is...its portryal of religion.  The writing, which has been varying from very good to down right amazing, has really fallen off a cliff when it comes to the flame of the eternal fire.  Just horrible, horrible writing.  Some of the worse portryals of religion, and indeed anything, I have ever seen in fiction.  COmpare that to the deep, varied, nuisanced, 'gray' Chantry, and it does not even hold a candle.  

Religion is the something the games showed to have absolutely no interests in, which is fine by me. There are multiple deity's, but you never learn much about them, apart from their names and minor hints of whatever they're known for. Besides Melittle, the only deity really explored in the games is Dagon, the Underwater God, who we end up killing.

 

In regards to The Church of Eternal Fire, I can kind of see why they're a bunch of murderous wack-jobs. They're the dominant religion in the region, backed by King Radovid and basically rule the 'Free' City of Novigrad. There is literally no able to challenge them and even if someone did, they could just bring in The Order of the Flaming Rose for assistance or requests help from Radovid. Basically they're a more unethical version of the Crusades.

[KBomb]

Thing is, he's not a transgender, just a cross-dresser.

I wouldn't label him as just a cross-dresser, but yeah. I probably misspoke when labeling him trans. Either way, it's a touch-base on a culture not considered politically correct and I think he was well handled. Which was my point, originally.

[Al Foley]

Religion is the something the games showed to have absolutely no interests in, which is fine by me. There are multiple deity's, but you never learn much about them, apart from their names and minor hints of whatever they're known for. Besides Melittle, the only deity really explored in the games is Dagon, the Underwater God, who we end up killing.

 

In regards to The Church of Eternal Fire, I can kind of see why they're a bunch of murderous wack-jobs. They're the dominant religion in the region, backed by King Radovid and basically rule the 'Free' City of Novigrad. There is literally no able to challenge them and even if someone did, they could just bring in The Order of the Flaming Rose for assistance or requests help from Radovid. Basically they're a more unethical version of the Crusades.

Paragraph one kind of contradicts paragraph 2.  

 

The Church of the Eternal Fire is such a big under current in the Witcher lore and narrative though.  Its a pretty big deal.  They make a pretty big presence felt on the game especially with all the stuff going on in Novigrad...which makes sense...but then they are not treated with any depth, nuisance, or even respect.  Whereas the DA writing team has always approached this issue with sensitivity.  The religions in the Witcher seem to be all, at base, really evil bastards...which makes sense on one hand...but there is no counter balance.  Even the Chantry has always had its counterbalance and I would argue is more good then evil, despite what they do to the mages.  

[Dread-Reaper]

I wouldn't label him as just a cross-dresser, but yeah. I probably misspoke when labeling him trans. Either way, it's a touch-base on a culture not considered politically correct and I think he was well handled. Which was my point, originally.

I guess you could say he's genderless (even though I don't believe in such stupidity), he said always wanted to be a doppleganger, but since he wasn't one he used costumes to replicate that feeling.

 

 

Paragraph one kind of contradicts paragraph 2.

 

The Church of the Eternal Fire is such a big under current in the Witcher lore and narrative though.  Its a pretty big deal.  They make a pretty big presence felt on the game especially with all the stuff going on in Novigrad...which makes sense...but then they are not treated with any depth, nuisance, or even respect.  Whereas the DA writing team has always approached this issue with sensitivity.  The religions in the Witcher seem to be all, at base, really evil bastards...which makes sense on one hand...but there is no counter balance.  Even the Chantry has always had its counterbalance and I would argue is more good then evil, despite what they do to the mages.  

It's 1am, cut me some slack. Yeah, DA handles religion much than TW, especially since it plays such a vital role in the games, whereas in TW it's sometime brought to attention, but mostly forgotten. I honestly believe CDPR felt that the game needed to have at least a few unabashedly evil characters/organization. 

[Al Foley]

I guess you could say he's genderless (even though I don't believe in such stupidity), he said always wanted to be a doppleganger, but since he wasn't one he used costumes to replicate that feeling.

 

 

It's 1am, cut me some slack. Yeah, DA handles religion much than TW, especially since it plays such a vital role in the games, whereas in TW it's sometime brought to attention, but mostly forgotten. I honestly believe CDPR felt that the game needed to have at least a few unabashedly evil characters/organization. 

Sorry.

 

And actually that is a good point.  So many shades of gray everywhere else in the game.  You know it is funny though I actually started out by giving the Witch Hunters some slack.  I mean they helped me in the bit with the Crones so when I did the side quest 'all father's eve'and they broke up the party I was like...nope not getting involved.  Now I just murder all the Witch Hunters and they send my Geralt into a murderous rage to where I think I have gone out of my way to chose the dialog options to force a confrontation.  

[Dread-Reaper]

Sorry.

 

And actually that is a good point.  So many shades of gray everywhere else in the game.  You know it is funny though I actually started out by giving the Witch Hunters some slack.  I mean they helped me in the bit with the Crones so when I did the side quest 'all father's eve'and they broke up the party I was like...nope not getting involved.  Now I just murder all the Witch Hunters and they send my Geralt into a murderous rage to where I think I have gone out of my way to chose the dialog options to force a confrontation.  

I like Graden, he's proof that not all Witch Hunters are straight up evil, that there at least a few of them can be level-headed or tolerable at the very least.

[Queen Skadi]

Oh, that's nasty and unnecessary. 

 

 

Perhaps, perhaps not, but it isn't exactly false either.

[Corto81]

BUT, on the subject of one (yet another thing) that DA I does better then the Witcher is...its portryal of religion.  The writing, which has been varying from very good to down right amazing, has really fallen off a cliff when it comes to the flame of the eternal fire.  Just horrible, horrible writing.  Some of the worse portryals of religion, and indeed anything, I have ever seen in fiction.  COmpare that to the deep, varied, nuisanced, 'gray' Chantry, and it does not even hold a candle.  

 

 

Do you know what the Catholic church was like in medieval times? (this is what the Church of Eternal Fire is based on)

Dunno, maybe it's common knowledge here in Europe only.

It had very little "depth" to it, it was an organization who wanted the human race to stick to the dogmas and doctrines from it's bawling infancy,

grabbing all the money and power in the world behind it.

I can write an essay about it, but I'll just mention:

- witch hunting

- inquisition

- Crusades

- forbidding the Bible in any language but Latin (punishable by death, of course)

- preventing science and scientists from doing any research for centuries - through imprisonment, torture and death

- "christening" nations through religious conquest

 

Again, the Church of Eternal Fire is based on medieval Catholic church.
No organization in human history is responsible for more despicable, vile deeds, no organization in human history is responsible for more pain and death. It's an organization that privatized all the meager knowledge it could and kept everyone else in the world from developing and gaining knowledge and insight into things. Anything from medicine and geography, to astronomy and seizmology and geology, anatomy and physics...

Everything and anything they could control (and they controlled everything) was stunted and stopped in growth for centuries and centuries.

 

It's not grey because it doesn't have to be.

It feels and plays like a proper religious organization from the dark ages.

[Shechinah]

 

*snip*

 

I believe non-fictional religions are amongst the topics that the rules state are not allowed to be discussed on the forums even if it is about the Catholic church during medieval times.
 

[Queen Skadi]

I believe non-fictional religions are amongst the topics that the rules state are not allowed to be discussed on the forums even if it is about the Catholic church during medieval times.
 

 

In this context I think it should be allowed since the discussion is on the depiction of religion within a fictional universe and in order to discuss what an accurate portrayal of religion is we need to understand what it is based off.

 

I am sure it is a discussion the Catholic Church and the Moderators would love to censor but I feel it is important to never forget what they did and recognize them for the monsters they truly are.

[Al Foley]

I like Graden, he's proof that not all Witch Hunters are straight up evil, that there at least a few of them can be level-headed or tolerable at the very least.

See Graden, but hear Sebastian...

 

It just has to be said.

 

Do you know what the Catholic church was like in medieval times? (this is what the Church of Eternal Fire is based on)

Dunno, maybe it's common knowledge here in Europe only.

It had very little "depth" to it, it was an organization who wanted the human race to stick to the dogmas and doctrines from it's bawling infancy,

grabbing all the money and power in the world behind it.

I can write an essay about it, but I'll just mention:

- witch hunting

- inquisition

- Crusades

- forbidding the Bible in any language but Latin (punishable by death, of course)

- preventing science and scientists from doing any research for centuries - through imprisonment, torture and death

- "christening" nations through religious conquest

 

Again, the Church of Eternal Fire is based on medieval Catholic church.
No organization in human history is responsible for more despicable, vile deeds, no organization in human history is responsible for more pain and death. It's an organization that privatized all the meager knowledge it could and kept everyone else in the world from developing and gaining knowledge and insight into things. Anything from medicine and geography, to astronomy and seizmology and geology, anatomy and physics...

Everything and anything they could control (and they controlled everything) was stunted and stopped in growth for centuries and centuries.

 

It's not grey because it doesn't have to be.

It feels and plays like a proper religious organization from the dark ages.

I am very well aware of the history.  

[Shechinah]

In this context I think it should be allowed since the discussion is on the depiction of religion within a fictional universe and in order to discuss what an accurate portrayal of religion is we need to understand what it is based off.

 

I am sure it is a discussion the Catholic Church and the Moderators would love to censor but I feel it is important to never forget what they did and recognize them for the monsters they truly are.

 

In regards to the top section of your comment; I believe comparisons might be allowed as long as they do not escalate into a discussion about the non-fictional religions themselves though it might be wiser to consult the forum rules before engaging in a discussion of that sort.

 

In regards to the bottom section of your comment; Whether or not that may be, these forums are not the place for it as per the established rules. Additionally, such a topic would also be unrelated to any forum section barring the Lobby forum section.
 

[Ariella]

In regards to the top section of your comment; I believe comparisons might be allowed as long as they do not escalate into a discussion about the non-fictional religions themselves though it might be wiser to consult the forum rules before engaging in a discussion of that sort.

Andraste's comparison to Jesus, Moses, and Joan of Arc have been discussed here on a number of occasions, as has the Chantry's similarity to the Catholic Church. I believe we're safe as long as we're discussing it in that context and not slinging insults at each other.

Or, in short, Skaldi is just trying to deflect.

That being said, and while I only cleared the hags and had begun both Novagraad and Bloody Baron, the Church of Eternal Fire seems shallow to me. Simply there to serve as the bad guy.

I have more than a few reasons not to love the Church during that period due to my own religious inclinations, but the basic creed of 'do unto others' is there. Hard to see in light of Church politics at such high levels, but there none the less.

Spoiler

Mother Giselle and the Revered Mother in Redcliff along with the Chantry sister tending to the fallen in Crestwood represent that side of the Chantry. Even Rodrick is devoted to those ideal, but he's locked into the idea of the ideals and the institution being one in the same, rather than the institution serving those ideals. Even the Revered Mother in Val Royueax is more frightened by what it would mean for the Herald to be sent by the Maker, since He turned His face from His creation a second time with the death of Andraste. According to the Chant the Maker will only return when it is sung in all four corners of the world. For the Maker to take a hand now would invalidated the Chant, especially if the Herald id a mage or not human, or worse a not human mage.

The only truly opportunistic Grand Cleric we 'see' in DAI is in Leliana's personal quest. And her agent seems to actually believe the Cleric's rhetoric.

The Church of Eternal Fire, however opens Witcher 3 with burning at the stake and a hunchback zealot cackling. While I can appreciate the need to drop exposition, the villianous religious nut is a little cliche.

[Queen Skadi]

Or, in short, Skaldi is just trying to deflect.

 

Deflect what exactly?

 

Also if we are allowed to discuss the similarities between the less objectionable aspects of religion and the fictional religion shown in game why can't we discuss how another game reflects a more accurate depiction of the true more abominable nature of the church?

 

When the discussion is about which game has a more faithful depiction of religion how is it not relevant to the discussion?

[Corto81]

 

 

I am very well aware of the history.  

 

 

The Church of Eternal Fire, however opens Witcher 3 with burning at the stake and a hunchback zealot cackling. While I can appreciate the need to drop exposition, the villianous religious nut is a little cliche.

 

Again, since you're well aware of history...

The Church of Eternal FIre is based and is suppose to be what the Catholic Church was in Europe in medieval times.

Its doctrines, dogmas and teachings led to (and were done by them) the inquisition, witch hunts, torture and killing of anything and anyone secular who utter a word (written or otherwise) that questioned any of the church's teaching, violent massacres and extermination of whole nations, etc.

 

The villain-type religious nut was the norm back then. Think of ISIS today.
Mass execution in stadiums performed by children. And such other vile stories and events.

It's cliche because it was "the norm" back then.

Just because it bothers someone doesn't make it go away or make it like it never happened.

Because it did, and that's the story CDPR are trying to tell here.

Sapkowski (and CDPR) are giving you the story of that church and
 

[Ariella]

Again, since you're well aware of history...
The Church of Eternal FIre is based and is suppose to be what the Catholic Church was in Europe in medieval times.
Its doctrines, dogmas and teachings led to (and were done by them) the inquisition, witch hunts, torture and killing of anything and anyone secular who utter a word (written or otherwise) that questioned any of the church's teaching, violent massacres and extermination of whole nations, etc.

Hello... Jewish. Well aware of the Church's history. In fact, if you can get your hands on the collector's edition of the Prima guide for DAI, there's a nice little bit about how Sir Thomas Moore is an encapsulation of the moral situation in the game

 

The villain-type religious nut was the norm back then. Think of ISIS today.

Yet the major problem with ISIS is you can't tell who they are by looking at them. The banality of evil, as it were.

It would be nice if the bad guys were all twisted monsters, but they're not. They have smiling faces and look completely normal, which is why when they do things it's so horrific.

A calm almost rational tone from the beginning cinematic, and a preacher who didn't look like the hunchback of notra dame would have gone a long way to making the Church feel like it's not another black and white situation of Church bad, Witcher/Sorceress etc good.

[Xetykins]

But the sorcs in TW world are from from being good. Hell, they have done plenty of things you can hate them for. Even the main casts like Yen did terrible things in game which I frankly can't blame the church for wanting to skew them. And TW3 is not ashamed to show what happened to those mages caught by the church. See one of Keira's endings.

You seem to be basing your opinion on who's good or bad based on that hunchback on the opening cinematics you're so fixated on, when in fact nothing in this game is black or white. So far all my decisions are all about the lesser evils.

[Ariella]

You seem to be basing your opinion on who's good or bad based on that hunchback on the opening cinematics you're so fixated on, when in fact nothing in this game is black or white. So far all my decisions are all about the lesser evils.

Think about what's said of first impressions. Someone coming into the series for the first time is presented with hunchback preacher nutjob first thing. That colors the rest of the game for that person.

You don't write these things just for the diehard fans, you write it for the guy who just picked it off the shelf because it looked interesting. You get one chance with that guy.