645 réponses à ce sujet

[Al Foley]

Think about what's said of first impressions. Someone coming into the series for the first time is presented with hunchback preacher nutjob first thing. That colors the rest of the game for that person.

You don't write these things just for the diehard fans, you write it for the guy who just picked it off the shelf because it looked interesting. You get one chance with that guy.

As someone who is a first time player.  I did not even know what the heck that guy was even doing.  Honestly I am not even sure it occured to me he would be a Priest of the Eternal Fire until now.  THought he was just some nut job establishing the tone of the game. 

[Ariella]

As someone who is a first time player.  I did not even know what the heck that guy was even doing.  Honestly I am not even sure it occured to me he would be a Priest of the Eternal Fire until now.  THought he was just some nut job establishing the tone of the game.

For me it felt like the standard 'religion bad' thing, and it wasn't hard to take the leap once you see the stakes. I don't remember if the Church is mentioned, it's been awhile.

Of course I found it funny the head of the witch hunters, iirc, is voiced by the same person who did Blackwall.

[Xetykins]

Think about what's said of first impressions. Someone coming into the series for the first time is presented with hunchback preacher nutjob first thing. That colors the rest of the game for that person.
You don't write these things just for the diehard fans, you write it for the guy who just picked it off the shelf because it looked interesting. You get one chance with that guy.

Well I don't know. I'm also new to the series so I haven't played the past instalments nor read the books. But in the prologue I was more paying attention to what was being said and the general visual theme rather than nitpicking on who was supposed to be good or evil. People usually get more information that way.

[Al Foley]

For me it felt like the standard 'religion bad' thing, and it wasn't hard to take the leap once you see the stakes. I don't remember if the Church is mentioned, it's been awhile.

Of course I found it funny the head of the witch hunters, iirc, is voiced by the same person who did Blackwall.

I know.  Man can't catch a break.  

[Ariella]

I know.  Man can't catch a break.  

Nope he can't. Though I remember Alistair Parker (?) voiced at least two characters in TW3. I remember because they seemed so close together I was having Bethesda flashes.

Bethesda does open world like nobody's business, but they tend to get the same five voice actors and then a NAME.

What can I say, I have a good ear. And I want Nathan Fillion for a va again, darn it. He would have been a blast as Alistair.

[Al Foley]

Nope he can't. Though I remember Alistair Parker (?) voiced at least two characters in TW3. I remember because they seemed so close together I was having Bethesda flashes.

Bethesda does open world like nobody's business, but they tend to get the same five voice actors and then a NAME.

What can I say, I have a good ear. And I want Nathan Fillion for a va again, darn it. He would have been a blast as Alistair.

Allistair was a blast as Allistair.  

 

Nathan Fillion for next DA Protagonist VA.  

[Ariella]

Allistair was a blast as Allistair.  
 
Nathan Fillion for next DA Protagonist VA.

He was Gao the Lesser in Jade Empire, and I may pick up Halo 5 just for him.

What can I say, I'm a fan.

[AllThatJazz]

Nope he can't. Though I remember Alistair Parker (?) voiced at least two characters in TW3. I remember because they seemed so close together I was having Bethesda flashes.

Bethesda does open world like nobody's business, but they tend to get the same five voice actors and then a NAME.

What can I say, I have a good ear. And I want Nathan Fillion for a va again, darn it. He would have been a blast as Alistair.

Oh God this. It's like he was every third or fourth character in Novigrad sometimes. Alistair Parker is great, but he always sounds like, well, Alistair Parker. He doesn't seem to have the range of someone like Mark Meer, Jennifer Hale or Miranda Raison.

 

Also, yes please to Nathan Fillion. I can't watch Castle without remembering Gao the Lesser (and after that getting all sad about Firefly).

[Ariella]

Oh God this. It's like he was every third or fourth character in Novigrad sometimes. Alistair Parker is great, but he always sounds like, well, Alistair Parker. He doesn't seem to have the range of someone like Mark Meer, Jennifer Hale or Miranda Raison.
 
Also, yes please to Nathan Fillion. I can't watch Castle without remembering Gao the Lesser (and after that getting all sad about Firefly).

You want to have your mind blown? Jen Hale voiced Cinderella in Disney's series Sofia the First. She also did Wendy in Return to Neverland. The woman is freaking amazing.

Not familiar with Miranda Raison, but Keith David is also pretty good. And as I've said before, I love Jo Wyatt. Going from Hawke to the lady who wants to open a chicken hotel in Fable 3. Funny as sin. And Adam Howden who was Anders in DA2, our friend the prisoner in the prologue of DAO, and a poor bloke who dropped the engagement ring he bought down the sewer in Fable 3. The best part is when you retrieve it, he has the existential crisis.

Of course I nearly fell over when I found out Claudia Black was Aethyta in Mass Effect. Wow.

As I said, Bioware has a great stable of actors, and from what I've seen and heard, they love working with BW.

[AllThatJazz]

You want to have your mind blown? Jen Hale voiced Cinderella in Disney's series Sofia the First. She also did Wendy in Return to Neverland. The woman is freaking amazing.

Not familiar with Miranda Raison, but Keith David is also pretty good. And as I've said before, I love Jo Wyatt. Going from Hawke to the lady who wants to open a chicken hotel in Fable 3. Funny as sin. And Adam Howden who was Anders in DA2, our friend the prisoner in the prologue of DAO, and a poor bloke who dropped the engagement ring he bought down the sewer in Fable 3. The best part is when you retrieve it, he has the existential crisis.

Of course I nearly fell over when I found out Claudia Black was Aethyta in Mass Effect. Wow.

As I said, Bioware has a great stable of actors, and from what I've seen and heard, they love working with BW.

Miranda Raison (Cassandra) was in an episode of Doctor Who where she played a New Yorker whose boyfriend was kidnapped by Daleks. Completely unrecognisable from Cass! Yes, I also love Keith David and Jo Wyatt - and Nicholas Boulton is also good - still can't get over him playing both male Hawke and Xenon

 

I'm a huge Jennifer Hale fan - I remember loving her as Mazzy Fentan in BG2 , then Bastila in KotOR and Fall-From-Grace in Planescape, and being totally blown away when I found out that she was Canadian and not British.

 

I did NOT know that Claudia Black was Aethyta. That is incredible information, thankyou. Mind = Blown. I love Aethyta. Damn, so much talent in the Bioware stable!

[Kadust]

Everything. I like the Witcher series, but they're just okay, whereas DA is quite awesome. Besides, the Witcher controls ... When are they going to get it right?

[Ariella]

Miranda Raison (Cassandra) was in an episode of Doctor Who where she played a New Yorker whose boyfriend was kidnapped by Daleks. Completely unrecognisable from Cass! Yes, I also love Keith David and Jo Wyatt - and Nicholas Boulton is also good - still can't get over him playing both male Hawke and Xenon
 
I'm a huge Jennifer Hale fan - I remember loving her as Mazzy Fentan in BG2 , then Bastila in KotOR and Fall-From-Grace in Planescape, and being totally blown away when I found out that she was Canadian and not British.
 
I did NOT know that Claudia Black was Aethyta. That is incredible information, thankyou. Mind = Blown. I love Aethyta. Damn, so much talent in the Bioware stable!

Now my daughter is going through her Dr. Who episodes to find Miranda. I remember Nicholas being swooned over as Vaughan with his evil sexy thing going on. And that he's Xenon just cracks me up.

I remember Jen going back to, God help me, the animated series of Where in the World is Carmen San Diego, and as the Master in Quest for Glory 4. Weirdly she was also Dynaheir in BG, though I loved Mazzy so much more. Mazzy just rocked. She was also Giganta and Zatanna in Justice League Unlimited.

And yes, the trash talking Asari is voiced by a woman I've never heard be anything but cultured.

There's only one other production team who's had the same level of talent as Bioware, and that was the DC Animated Universe. Bruce Timm and Andrea Romano somehow put together an amazing cast for Batman the Animated Series and kept right on going. I mean, who could have seen Luke Skywalker as the Joker?

I remember the first time I played BG 2. It was 2 AM, and the thing had finally installed. I boot up, and it's David Warner issuing out of the speakers. Then they topped that with ME and the first thing I hear is Seth Green.

[AllThatJazz]

Hah, Ariella, I'm recognising so much of myself in you! I damn near cried with happiness the first time I heard David Warner in BG2 And I remember jumping up and down yelling at my husband 'it's Oz! It's Oz!' at the start of Mass Effect ...

 

Agreed, re DC Universe. Mark Hamill is my favourite Joker of all time in any medium. Would not have seen that coming in a million years after Star Wars.

 

With the exception of basically every Bioware game, my favourite vo cast in a game is Planescape: Torment. Jen Hale as FFG/Deionarra, Sheena Easton as Annah, Mitch Pileggi as Dakkon, Keith David as Vhailor, Dan Castellanata as Nordom, John de Lancie as Trias, Tony Jay as the Transendent One. So much goodness. Batman: Arkham Asylum/City is also marvellous.

 

Edit: I'd forgotten about Dynaheir!

 

Edit 2: Daleks in Manhattan is the Who ep, Tallulah is the character

[Riven326]

I think it has less to do with Witcher 3 being so damn well designed, (it is, and I do realize it has set new standards in many areas) and more to do with BioWare just really dropping the ball with Inquisition. Here are some points where I feel things have gone wrong.

 

• The cheesy dialogue and childish banter.
• The poorly designed combat systems that feel bipolar.
• An open world that feels lifeless and is filled to the brim with fetch quests.
• The same old BioWare characters that feel recycled.
• The same old and tired "You are the chosen one, now go save the world!" story line.
• A multiplayer component that feels tacked on and underdeveloped.
• The illusion of choice and constantly being railroaded by BioWare's writers.
• A predominant feeling that you're playing an offline MMO.
• Artwork that lacks it's own style and borders on being generic.
• A lack of world consistency: the art style and many other fundamental aspects change drastically with each new title.
• A lack of direction and vision with this IP overall, unlike Mass Effect.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Again, since you're well aware of history...

The Church of Eternal FIre is based and is suppose to be what the Catholic Church was in Europe in medieval times.

Its doctrines, dogmas and teachings led to (and were done by them) the inquisition, witch hunts, torture and killing of anything and anyone secular who utter a word (written or otherwise) that questioned any of the church's teaching, violent massacres and extermination of whole nations, etc.

 

The villain-type religious nut was the norm back then. Think of ISIS today.
Mass execution in stadiums performed by children. And such other vile stories and events.

It's cliche because it was "the norm" back then.

Just because it bothers someone doesn't make it go away or make it like it never happened.

Because it did, and that's the story CDPR are trying to tell here.

Sapkowski (and CDPR) are giving you the story of that church and
 

 

But it wasn't only that. The Church also promoted alms, charity, and asylum to those who asked for it. It was also one of the very few bastions of culture and learning remaining in medieval Europe. Not to mention the Inquisition and witch hunts is mostly a Rennaissance affair, not Middle Ages.

 

Point is, yes the Curch did some really nasty stuff, but that's hardly all they did. Dragon Age handles it much better, since it does show the zealotry and corruption in the Chantry, but also the better aspects as well, and has them opposed by factions that have their own moral baggage. That is gray morality. 

 

With the Eternal Fire, literally the only aspect you see in TW3 are priests that are either cruel (Menge and his ilk), overzealous (most preachers in Novigrad) or fake/corrupt (the Fisstech dealing dude in Velen). The entire religion is a caricature of the Church's worst aspects. They are also opposed by Geralt the Good Guy and wizards that are entirely portrayed as poor helpless victims as well as crime lords with a heart. That is not gray morality, and not good writing/world building. Especially when the game takes special care to estalish an insane tyrant as the religion's chief patron.

[Ariella]

Hah, Ariella, I'm recognising so much of myself in you! I damn near cried with happiness the first time I heard David Warner in BG2 And I remember jumping up and down yelling at my husband 'it's Oz! It's Oz!' at the start of Mass Effect ...

Always fun to find a kindred spirit! I fell in love with Warner back during Tron, then Wild Palms (which was really trippy) and of course as Ras al Ghul. So I may have woken the husband up with stereotypical girly shrieks.

Much the same with ME, but I kept doing a double take going 'it can't be'. Then I saw him.

 

Agreed, re DC Universe. Mark Hamill is my favourite Joker of all time in any medium. Would not have seen that coming in a million years after Star Wars.

He did an interview a few years back and talked about how he got the part. Plus he did a live reading of the eulogue from 'the Man Who Killed Batman'

 

With the exception of basically every Bioware game, my favourite vo cast in a game is Planescape: Torment. Jen Hale as FFG/Deionarra, Sheena Easton as Annah, Mitch Pileggi as Dakkon, Keith David as Vhailor, Dan Castellanata as Nordom, John de Lancie as Trias, Tony Jay as the Transendent One. So much goodness. Batman: Arkham Asylum/City is also marvellous.
 
Edit: I'd forgotten about Dynaheir!
 
Edit 2: Daleks in Manhattan is the Who ep, Tallulah is the character

My daughter showed me. I knew she wouldn't look like Cass but bright blonde threw me.

I haven't played Planescape, I tried, many many moons ago, but could never get into it.

ME 2 was a real treat because of Martin Sheen. Any man who can stand in the National Cathedral and curse out God in Latin (which the character speaks fluently but Martin does not) and pull it off with the kind of passion and power... He was a treat. And he looked like he was having fun too.

[Elhanan]

David Warner has played in Time After Time as Jack the Ripper, The Omen, Time Bandits, the Horatio Hornblower mini-series, and the Star Trek films and TV series. What's not to like/ loathe?

[TeffexPope]

Personally:

 

-Much better character interaction. I guess CD Projekt's idea of a romance is Triss saying "WELL?!?!" when you try to talk to her. Seriously. After you get to the climax of the main plot against the Wild Hunt, there is literally zero interaction with her. Despite the fact that you committed to her earlier in the story. Just stupid. And Yennifer is forced upon the player, even though she only appears in the 3rd game. You're somehow supposed to feel a connection to her character simply because the author says so? No thanks.

 

-The dialogue wheel. That is clearly the standard for RPGs today. TW's dialogue system is primitive in comparison. Sure, they have the time limits on some dialogues/decisions, but they're still unnaturally long, and the whole point of them is to make hard decisions quickly. They don't even really do that, they just make you semi-panic.

 

-Sorry, but I despise Geralt's voice and grammar. Midway through the game I was wishing so bad for a different voice actor for Geralt. Or, at least a better dialogue writer.

 

-Magic. TW's take on magic is a tropetastic mess. You've got all these lame magics like geomancy,necromancy, all the tropes of fantasy universes under one roof. And, of course, faux-Latin is used to cast these spells. Yawn. Compare that to the Fade, blood magic, the templar-mage tensions et cetera...it's just so superior and is a fresh take on magic, which is no easy feat given the volume of magic in all kinds of fantasy media.

 

I'd say the combat systems are on par. They're just different. Geralt is alone most of the time, so he should be able to dispatch enemies that are of his own level in a few hits. That would be silly in DA which is party based. There'd be no point to companions. And at least DA doesn't have the stupid spinneroo 'quick attack' that Geralt does...god, that **** is stupid lol.

[TeffexPope]

But it wasn't only that. The Church also promoted alms, charity, and asylum to those who asked for it. It was also one of the very few bastions of culture and learning remaining in medieval Europe. Not to mention the Inquisition and witch hunts is mostly a Rennaissance affair, not Middle Ages.

 

Point is, yes the Curch did some really nasty stuff, but that's hardly all they did. Dragon Age handles it much better, since it does show the zealotry and corruption in the Chantry, but also the better aspects as well, and has them opposed by factions that have their own moral baggage. That is gray morality. 

 

With the Eternal Fire, literally the only aspect you see in TW3 are priests that are either cruel (Menge and his ilk), overzealous (most preachers in Novigrad) or fake/corrupt (the Fisstech dealing dude in Velen). The entire religion is a caricature of the Church's worst aspects. They are also opposed by Geralt the Good Guy and wizards that are entirely portrayed as poor helpless victims as well as crime lords with a heart. That is not gray morality, and not good writing/world building. Especially when the game takes special care to estalish an insane tyrant as the religion's chief patron.

You're fighting a losing battle, friend, on the internet trying to tell people the WHOLE truth about the church's history. The bad stuff is too ingrained (an oftentimes not even accurate) and the good stuff completely unknown.

[Giantdeathrobot]

You're fighting a losing battle, friend, on the internet trying to tell people the WHOLE truth about the church's history. The bad stuff is too ingrained (an oftentimes not even accurate) and the good stuff completely unknown.

 

I'm not even preaching for my choir. I'm as atheist as they come. But that doesn't mean I find it OK when people focus solely on the bad aspect of a religion (any religion, let's leave it at that) at the expense of everything else. It overly simplifies an often extraordinarily complex system of morality, customs and beliefs. And that's more or less exactly what the author of the Witcher books did, and CDPR followed suit.

 

In a world that tries to be grey and grey, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Especially after CDPR handled the Baron so well, when he's a character that would have been very easy to write as a villain.

 

In general, TW3 doesn't have too much grey and grey morality, sad to say. Crones vs tree spirit is evil vs arguably greater evil. Radovid is evil and insane. The Begger King good, Whoreson jr. bad. Witch hunters bad, sorcerers good. Crach and his family good, Lugos and Bran's widow bad. Geralt and friends good, Wild Hunt bad bad bad. Roche and Thaler somewhat good, Sigi somewhat bad. 

 

The grey morality aspects I remember were the Baron, Emhyr and Avellach (the latter two apparently contradicting the books, where they were just bad guys). 

 

Inquisition handled that better I feel. Mages vs Templars, the Grey Warden affair, the Orlesian civil war, everything surrounding Flemeth and Solas, Crestwood's mayor, Calpernia (almost half the Judgements really), there's plenty of grey morality to go around.

[Kadust]

Everything. I like the Witcher series, but they're just okay, whereas DA is quite awesome. Besides, the Witcher controls ... When are they going to get it right?

 

I change my answer to: Everything, but hair.

[Monica83]

I have simply to say... Is not for fanboysm is not for say "my game is better than yours"  many people here refuse to understand that bioware angered a lot of people with the release of Dragon age 2.. People that felt betrayed since bioware was a top quality RPG maker... 

 

I have both witcher3 and inquisition... I liked more inquisition than dragon age 2 but i have to say inquisition is dull and bland... Why is that?... They expanded the maps and this is grate... When i was playing inquisition for the first time i was telling to myself:

 

"Wow i can't wait to explore and make sidequests in manner to interact better with the envirovment and discover new parts of the lore..."

 

But what i got instead?

 

"Never ending MMO fetch quest style... Static Npc...A stale ambient at the point it looked like plastic to me...."

 

Then witcher 3 is the total opposite...Huge maps... Living radiant of life... Beautiful sidequests....So in the end thread like this are made just to let bioware understand they could do a lot better if they want...

 

It is not an assault for bioware fans... Is a suggestion maded to improved a franchise that with the time did worse...

 

I don't think queen skadi is a troll but a user willing to help this franchise... She have strong argument...And she nailed almost all the point... Maybe she could be a little more diplomatic tough..but i like her..

[Monica83]

double post

[Kabraxal]

I have simply to say... Is not for fanboysm is not for say "my game is better than yours"  many people here refuse to understand that bioware angered a lot of people with the release of Dragon age 2.. People that felt betrayed since bioware was a top quality RPG maker... 

 

I have both witcher3 and inquisition... I liked more inquisition than dragon age 2 but i have to say inquisition is dull and bland... Why is that?... They expanded the maps and this is grate... When i was playing inquisition for the first time i was telling to myself:

 

"Wow i can't wait to explore and make sidequests in manner to interact better with the envirovment and discover new parts of the lore..."

 

But what i got instead?

 

"Never ending MMO fetch quest style... Static Npc...A stale ambient at the point it looked like plastic to me...."

 

Then witcher 3 is the total opposite...Huge maps... Living radiant of life... Beautiful sidequests....So in the end thread like this are made just to let bioware understand they could do a lot better if they want...

 

It is not an assault for bioware fans... Is a suggestion maded to improved a franchise that with the time did worse...

 

I don't think queen skadi is a troll but a user willing to help this franchise... She have strong argument...And she nailed almost all the point... Maybe she could be a little more diplomatic tough..but i like her..

It's opinion and her attitude towards opinions that don't agree with hers is horrid... that is the problem.  And the way she posts sure doesn't come across as "here Bioware let me help..." it comes across as "go to hell Bioware you can't even begin to lick CDPRs boots!".

[Corto81]

But it wasn't only that. The Church also promoted alms, charity, and asylum to those who asked for it. It was also one of the very few bastions of culture and learning remaining in medieval Europe. Not to mention the Inquisition and witch hunts is mostly a Rennaissance affair, not Middle Ages.

 

Point is, yes the Curch did some really nasty stuff, but that's hardly all they did. Dragon Age handles it much better, since it does show the zealotry and corruption in the Chantry, but also the better aspects as well, and has them opposed by factions that have their own moral baggage. That is gray morality. 

 

With the Eternal Fire, literally the only aspect you see in TW3 are priests that are either cruel (Menge and his ilk), overzealous (most preachers in Novigrad) or fake/corrupt (the Fisstech dealing dude in Velen). The entire religion is a caricature of the Church's worst aspects. They are also opposed by Geralt the Good Guy and wizards that are entirely portrayed as poor helpless victims as well as crime lords with a heart. That is not gray morality, and not good writing/world building. Especially when the game takes special care to estalish an insane tyrant as the religion's chief patron.

 

I'm sorry, but calling the Catholic Church "one of the few bastions of culture and learning in Medieval Europe" is either sarcasm or not knowing history.

As it turns out, they had some of the best artists working for them (since they had the money)... But...

 

This is the institution that kept (through punishment of excommunication - if you were lucky, torture and death otherwise) the western civilizations from advancing from the ridiculous ideas of the universe, world, anatomy, sickness, geology, seismology, etc. that were the norm back then.

(Incidentally, inquisition belonged to the middle ages - starting in 12th century, while witch hunts started a bit later.)

 

The church - especially back then - had institutionalized hatred of anything not of their liking, bigotry, ignorance and a complete disrespect of women.

The few kind priests that helped people do not offset what the church's dogma and doctrines were, and how much pain and death they've brought to the human race over the centuries - through institutionalized dogmas and doctrines and politics, not as some indirect side effect.

 

Reading and owning the Bible in any language but Latin (once the flock were finally permitted to read the Bible, because for centuries, the Church only allowed the "flock" to listen to the priests, they weren't allowed to read for themselves) was punishable by burnings and (again) death.
Sir Thomas More was responsible for organizing thousands and thousands of burnings (murders) of english men and women who owned the Bible in English.
This is a historical fact. It is also highly likely he was torturing "heretics" in his own house (!) - which btw, he admitted to (keeping them imprisoned, saying he tortured only several... which makes it okay, I guess).

The same Thomas More was canonised in the 1930s as a martyr and declared the "heavenly patron of statesmen and politicians" in 2000 - long after everybody knew what a disgusting human being More actually was.

 

Please.

I have written essays on this, I could go on for hours and hours.
When I hear how the Catholic church was a bastion of knowledge, it makes me want to puke.

(even today, ask Africa how church's teachings that "AIDS is bad, but condoms are worse" is working out in Africa...)

 

My point is....

I have no intention in trying to delve into what the church in DA:I is trying to be or wants to be, etc.

TBH, I found the whole story and the world rather shallow and childish - for reasons I've described multiple times, from a cardboard world to no children in it, etc.

But CDPR is basing their Church of Eternal Fire on the Catholic Church of medieval Europe.

 

There is nothing gray about the Catholic Church of medieval ages. It was the world's most powerful organization (still is), based on ignorance and hatred, and brought about so much pain, death and misery that I'm honestly not sure why they'd be portrayed as anything other than evil.

(now this might sound harsh, but it just might be the best word to describe medieval religious institutions)