46 réponses à ce sujet

[Spectr61]

In ME3 reload cancelling was an accepted exploit of game mechanics.

In DAI, my feeling is that attack animation cancelling is an accepted exploit of game mechanics.

DAI spawn camping seems to have fallen into the "not accepted" category of game mechanic exploits.

Exploiting DPS is OK, but controlling spawn points is not?

Discuss.

[KalGerion_Beast]

What about spawn nuking?  

[Drasca]

Spawn Camping OP. They are 'fixing' it, and the previous fix got stealth removed by accident.

Devs already addressed spawn nuking tactics with how their adds work.

[Spectr61]

Exactly.

ME3 spawn nuking was controlling the spawn points a la DAI spawn camping.

[Spectr61]

Spawn Camping is OP, but doubling my DPS is not?

[Theghostof_timmy]

Obvious troll is obvious, but I'll bite. Spawn camping in this game basically deletes all enemies that were going to come from that spawn. Block all the spawns and they simply don't appear. Me3 had way more spawn locations, and blocking a spawn just made the enemies spawn at another location. It's totally different.

[Cirvante]

Spawn Camping is OP, but doubling my DPS is not?

It's less about being OP and more about the fact that they did not intend for us to be able to do 8-minute NM games to farm the Hakkon weapons.

 

Animation canceling is likely considered clever use of game mechanics, just like in ME3. They actually intentionally implemented reload canceling back in ME2.

[yarpenthemad21]

Obvious troll is obvious, but I'll bite. Spawn camping in this game basically deletes all enemies that were going to come from that spawn. Block all the spawns and they simply don't appear. Me3 had way more spawn locations, and blocking a spawn just made the enemies spawn at another location. It's totally different.

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Current spawn blocking as it looks in DAIMP is similar to skipping from dungeon gameplay in mmos games. Some games accepted that, some not.

[Archaeologist]

 

In ME3 reload cancelling was an accepted exploit of game mechanics.

 

In DAI, my feeling is that attack animation cancelling is an accepted exploit of game mechanics.

 

DAI spawn camping seems to have fallen into the "not accepted" category of game mechanic exploits.

 

Exploiting DPS is OK, but controlling spawn points is not?

 

Isnt animation-canceling (for auto-attack via sprint) impossible to fix? 

 

 

 

In my experience with Online games, the fine line is crossed when a "creative use of game mechanics" like autoattack animation canceling becomes something "gamebreaking"; detrimental to the community and game experience as a whole. 

Some feel that spawn camping gives people an unfair advantage. On the technical side of things Im sure that S-Camping is taxing on the servers (or not...it would be interesting to know...), thus causing instability. 

 

[TheThirdRace]

Isnt animation-canceling (for auto-attack via sprint) impossible to fix?

Try animation-cancelling on Archer/Hunter and you'll see it's "fixed" for them... You'll also see how bad their mobility is and how you'd probably want to kill someone if other characters were like them

[TheThirdRace]

Spawn camping became a "bad" exploit the day Bioware realized they couldn't put a limit other than drop rate on Hakkon weapons...

You shall not have those weapons unless you grind till your eyes bleed from exhaustion. Isn't it what fun is? Right? Riiiiight?

 

Edit: Haha, I got a like from BLuke, well played sir, well played...

[Archaeologist]

 

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Current spawn blocking as it looks in DAIMP is similar to skipping from dungeon gameplay in mmos games. Some games accepted that, some not.

 

Discuss.

 

It's not as if teams are completely skipping mobs (as in they are bypassing them without combat), they're just not having the complete  wave-by-wave experience. There's no trick of jumping through an invisible wall to get to another wave then dragon then profit, it's just a lessened ( and subsequently quicker) experience. 

 

That's a question on gameplay philosophy. 

[ALTBOULI]

[yarpenthemad21]

It's not as if teams are completely skipping mobs (as in they are bypassing them without combat), they're just not having the complete  wave-by-wave experience. There's no trick of jumping through an invisible wall to get to another wave then dragon then profit, it's just a lessened ( and subsequently quicker) experience. 
 
That's a question on gameplay philosophy.

No, they skipping them by not even make them spawn.

Difference between full wave 4, like 30 rage demons and camp spawning more like 4 is huge. And this is just this single type of enemy.

[Thadrial]

I hope they never try to fix this spawn camping issue again. It's not fair to the lower level players that can't even spawn camp that we can get our weapons easily then bioware fixes it and nightmare runs become a terrible grind again. I just don't understand the problem people have with spawn camping anyways. Why do you care that people don't want to spend hundreds of hours to collect the Hakkon weapons? I know that I don't. 40+ minutes per run is ridiculous and that's what you face with a lower skill party running it.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Wouldn't you spawn camp with hakkon weapon drop rates that decrease by half with each received?

1st weapon: 15%

2nd:7.5%

3rd: 5%

4th:2.5%

5th: GG

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

I hope they never try to fix this spawn camping issue again. It's not fair to the lower level players that can't even spawn camp that we can get our weapons easily then bioware fixes it and nightmare runs become a terrible grind again. I just don't understand the problem people have with spawn camping anyways. Why do you care that people don't want to spend hundreds of hours to collect the Hakkon weapons? I know that I don't. 40+ minutes per run is ridiculous and that's what you face with a lower skill party running it.

Forty minutes is actually not the avg, at least not in my experiences, most of the time it's more than an hour or so due to inexperienced players who have aren't properly geared for NM.

[Thadrial]

Forty minutes is actually not the avg, at least not in my experiences, most of the time it's more than an hour or so due to inexperienced players who have aren't properly geared for NM.

I've gathered pugs from perilous before and carried them in NM so I guess it would take longer w/o me. All the more reason to never remove spawn camping. Not all of us have the time or patience for it.

[Kalas Magnus]

Wouldn't you spawn camp with hakkon weapon drop rates that decrease by half with each received?

1st weapon: 15%

2nd:7.5%

3rd: 5%

4th:2.5%

5th: GG

oh boy yes.

 

im at 120 dragons and still havent gotten my fourth

[Spin-Orbit]

I've gathered pugs from perilous before and carried them in NM so I guess it would take longer w/o me. All the more reason to never remove spawn camping. Not all of us have the time or patience for it.

I disagree, it should be removed. A great team with no spawn block will take about 30 min to do the run, give or take, a slow methodical team with mid-level users about 45 mins and mixed pug and inexperienced player with good over a hour. If you allow spawn blocking so that the high end players do it in 10min then the discrepancy between them and the rest of the community with increase even more and at a faster clip. This should have been meant so you can get all 5 weapons done in 3 days while rest of DAMP is chasing the whale.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I disagree, it should be removed. A great team with no spawn block will take about 30 min to do the run, give or take, a slow methodical team with mid-level users about 45 mins and mixed pug and inexperienced player with good over a hour. If you allow spawn blocking so that the high end players do it in 10min then the discrepancy between them and the rest of the community with increase even more and at a faster clip. This should have been meant so you can get all 5 weapons done in 3 days while rest of DAMP is chasing the whale.

 

And "speed runners" in ME3 didn't have a major advantage by nuking Platinum spawns to farm money at a ridiculous place? Truth is that everything is already designed to grant advantage to higher tier players in these games. I personally think that if they want to spawn camp, and can coordinate well enough to do so, then let them. It's tactical.

 

I want to be clear in saying that I am one of the lower tier players "chasing the whale", as you put it. I have not even started a single Nightmare run outside of the beta.

[DragonRacer]

To be perfectly honest, I seriously do not care what people do in their game.

 

If a group of friends want to get together and speedrun Nightmare to farm Hakkon weapons, more power to them. That doesn't really bother me or affect me at all.

 

But do NOT take away my attack animation canceling, dammit! Two-handed warrior is basically my favorite class right now because it's just flat-out fun to play. However, animation-canceling is a large part of that fun for me. I really don't want to sit there and watch my character take 20 years to swing a damn longsword.

[Spin-Orbit]

And "speed runners" in ME3 didn't have a major advantage by nuking Platinum spawns to farm money at a ridiculous place? Truth is that everything is already designed to grant advantage to higher tier players in these games. I personally think that if they want to spawn camp, and can coordinate well enough to do so, then let them. It's tactical.
 
I want to be clear in saying that I am one of the lower tier players "chasing the whale", as you put it. I have not even started a single Nightmare run outside of the beta.

I believe this is matter of original design intention from the developers, they could have added multiple spawn points. Whatever it maybe our opinions differ.

[Drasca]

I disagree, it should be removed. A great team with no spawn block will take about 30 min to do the run,

 

8 minutes or less.

[K_A_Rnage]

My issue is the fact that it's been available yet when I get a group capable of pulling it off it's not available.
I've invested 30+ hrs into NM FC for 1 Hakkon. With avg clear time about 50min and I have to run
lvl 20 so no xp. So far it has been very unrewarding and I would love to spawn camp my way to 2 more weapons.