46 réponses à ce sujet

[BreakJohn]

how about decrease the number of enemies that spawn in the castle? its fun killing 10+ of each enemy and all, but once you get to 20-30+ of one enemy type... thats just exhausting. seriously bioware if you are gonna remove spawn camping(and you are) please for the love of god lower the enemy count on this map.

[Felis Menari]

I like that FC runs result in more XP, but the despair demon spam can be absurd. Of course that wouldn't be as big of a deal if line of sight actually meant something to them. But, that requires significant tweaking, and we all know that breaking the things that we enjoy takes priority over fixing what's truly wrong with the game

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I believe this is matter of original design intention from the developers, they could have added multiple spawn points. Whatever it maybe our opinions differ.

 

They likely do on a vast number of topics, I would hope lol. I am giving my completely subjective view as a lower tiered player that doesn't even play Nightmare, as I was hearing all these people saying how it was "unfair to lower players". I personally do not see it that way at all. It's not like only certain players can ever get Hakkon weapons, or there is some time limit on them. Others can eventually get there, and choose to spawn camp themselves, if they so wish.

 

My opinion on this is also different because know how some developers think (not necessarily BioWare). By allowing players to speed through the "end-game" content, those players will get bored and move on. So, they want to prevent people from skipping the grind so the players have to play more. It is, and always will be, a very bad business choice. Even Digital Extremes, infamous for their prized game being dubbed "Warfarm" due to the insane grinding, has taken a more quest-based approach to gaining items. Less grind, same duration of play, better quality content. Everyone wins.

 

I have said it many times before, and will continue shouting to every developer that will listen: RNG and Grinding are not a substitute for good content. Attempting to artificially increase play duration by increasing the grind is just plain lazy. So players found a way around the grind using solid teamwork and coordination? And you want to punish that?

 

Instead of focusing so much finite resources of the patch team on this, why not focus more into some more variety of content (maps, new enemies, new classes, etc)? That's my suggestion to this issue.

[SpaceV3gan]

Spawn camping is a hindrance for the team XP-wise, in my book a heavy price to be paid for a decrease in the duration of matches which only have a small chance of very rare loot drop. I can't see it as an exploit. It might even be considered rather counter productive to some players with bad luck.

[Campout King]

When weapon drop/ exp/ coins decreases people will always find a quicker more efficient way to farm...any game. Adapt and overcome

More maps would help alter this even more

[Mocha]

I don't think removing spawn blocking would make it any less "fair" to the average/lower stat players. Just think about it.  Let us suppose for instance, that there was no spawn blocking, and that you would have to fight every single enemy that NM provided for us.

 

The higher stat players would be more likely to go through the zones, with some team coordination to help speed it through. Might I also add that they would likely prefer to play with other players with similar or higher stats than them to make their runs as fast and efficient as possible. This already happens WITH being able to spawn block. Taking it out would further increase the gap, because most of the higher players don't want to take the extra time to kill everything just to carry the average/lower stat player. I'm not saying all high stat players are like this at all, I'm just saying that a good chunk of them don't want to take an extra hour+ to be able to get that 2 or 1% drop rate that they have left to find. I don't think anyone does, high stat or not.

 

Meanwhile, the average/lower stat players may struggle to kill even one enemy, while they are suddenly getting bombarded by mobs that could potentially cause frame rate issues, because there is so much going on. Their poor Virtuoso ends up having to switch hands to relieve the pain of constantly mashing for barrier, and hopes that they have enough team coordination to pull back a bit from the enemies so that he could regenerate his mana and give them some space from the enemies that just don't seem to die. They will eventually get overwhelmed by enemies, and there is nothing worse than dying on Zone 4, when they already took well over an hour to get that far, and a dragon call was wasted by someone who barely had the materials to craft it.

 

Spawn blocking is not right or wrong. But it still takes a solid team coordination to pull it off. And Zone 4 becomes all the more heavily dependent on the faction you're fighting against, as well as the character builds/stats your teammates are using to be able to successfully spawn block.

 

So where I'm getting with all this is that removing spawn blocking at this point would just make it almost impossible for the average/low stat players to be able to get even 1 Hakkon weapon (even with the better drop rate), when a good chunk of the higher stat players already have at least 2 or 3 Hakkon weapons by now. Furthermore, I think it's ironic that people are whining about spawn blocking more now, when they already some Hakkon weapons under their belt. If spawn blocking is such a huge issue, they should have been done with it long ago. All it does now is create a greater rift between player stats.

[shadowcaezar]

Spawn blocking was neat the first few days but the lack of xp growth seems too detrimental in the long term. I run them now with full spawns and avg 28 mins, no doors. We stagger the promotes so someone can always bring a 1. We can clear with just two actually if need be. Reaver and archer combo is just filthy and broken. With a mage in the group for support we are going 1 - 16 and 16 - 20 in just under an hour when everything clicks.

[Sulaco_7]

I think the spawn blocking technique gives "casual" players an avenue to getting Hakkon weapons, which ultimately increases player participation in Nightmare.  This is why I like it.

 

Anything that increases the DAMP player base is good.

[Spin-Orbit]

They likely do on a vast number of topics, I would hope lol. I am giving my completely subjective view as a lower tiered player that doesn't even play Nightmare, as I was hearing all these people saying how it was "unfair to lower players". I personally do not see it that way at all. It's not like only certain players can ever get Hakkon weapons, or there is some time limit on them. Others can eventually get there, and choose to spawn camp themselves, if they so wish.
 
My opinion on this is also different because know how some developers think (not necessarily BioWare). By allowing players to speed through the "end-game" content, those players will get bored and move on. So, they want to prevent people from skipping the grind so the players have to play more. It is, and always will be, a very bad business choice. Even Digital Extremes, infamous for their prized game being dubbed "Warfarm" due to the insane grinding, has taken a more quest-based approach to gaining items. Less grind, same duration of play, better quality content. Everyone wins.
 
I have said it many times before, and will continue shouting to every developer that will listen: RNG and Grinding are not a substitute for good content. Attempting to artificially increase play duration by increasing the grind is just plain lazy. So players found a way around the grind using solid teamwork and coordination? And you want to punish that?
 
Instead of focusing so much finite resources of the patch team on this, why not focus more into some more variety of content (maps, new enemies, new classes, etc)? That's my suggestion to this issue.

Well we agree on the need for additional content.

I don't know why there isn't a more thoughtful approach to the overall MP game genre. I agree with you that the business side repeats the same mistake over and over, the environments, mechanics and concepts attract p[layers but the industry has yet to evolve in the MP. The same old questions of old and new player discrepancy occurs over and over in terms of being overpowered, been there done that issue. Bringing new players in to continue the community growth over attrition and fatigue is always a challenge. In MMORPG this constant change and growth is the hardest thing to manage and keep the player base happy. SO let's see where BW intends to take this, there has been interesting changes such as additional resources and effort, free MP game distribution, and etc.

Perhaps it's all testing for future product or it might just be a unplanned lease of life by efforts of few at BW. Remains to be seen..

[Snakebite]

8 minutes or less.

30 minutes.

[Drasca]

30 minutes.

 

That's for Pizza delivery.

[Spin-Orbit]

That's for Pizza delivery.

8 mins with certain characters or with any character

[Snakebite]

That's for Pizza delivery.

If only Jimmy John's delivered pizza, am I right?

30 minutes is also half to a third of your self proclaimed time to comeplete Ferelden Castle on Nightmare, so how did you get come to the conclusion that a full completion takes about 8 minutes? You are supposedly good at math; please, enlighten me.

[Spin-Orbit]

If only Jimmy John's delivered pizza, am I right?

30 minutes is also half to a third of your self proclaimed time to comeplete Ferelden Castle on Nightmare, so how did you get come to the conclusion that a full completion takes about 8 minutes? You are supposedly good at math; please, enlighten me.

Drasca post a video?

[Drasca]

30 minutes is also half to a third of your self proclaimed time to comeplete Ferelden Castle on Nightmare, so how did you get come to the conclusion that a full completion takes about 8 minutes? You are supposedly good at math; please, enlighten me.

 

Take a few guesses on who I socialize with that also play, are occasionally on Beta, overpomoted / geared, carry each other, also post on this forum and usually have hakkon weapons much earlier than everyone else. Just guess.

 

That figure is absolutely ridiculous, but also still true for those players spawn camping. It is insane how OP spawn camping can be.

[Snakebite]

Take a few guesses on who I socialize with that also play, are occasionally on Beta, overpomoted / geared, carry each other, also post on this forum and usually have hakkon weapons much earlier than everyone else. Just guess.

 

That figure is absolutely ridiculous, but also still true for those players spawn camping. It is insane how OP spawn camping can be.

 

I don't know who you play with, but that person sounds amazing!  Sadly, I am stuck with Proto   ...     

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but when I say "full completion", I am not talking about speed-running, "spawn-camping", etc.  You are right though, getting 15,000 XP for a Ferelden Castle completion on Nightmare is totally OP. 

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Well we agree on the need for additional content.

I don't know why there isn't a more thoughtful approach to the overall MP game genre. I agree with you that the business side repeats the same mistake over and over, the environments, mechanics and concepts attract p[layers but the industry has yet to evolve in the MP. The same old questions of old and new player discrepancy occurs over and over in terms of being overpowered, been there done that issue. Bringing new players in to continue the community growth over attrition and fatigue is always a challenge. In MMORPG this constant change and growth is the hardest thing to manage and keep the player base happy. SO let's see where BW intends to take this, there has been interesting changes such as additional resources and effort, free MP game distribution, and etc.

Perhaps it's all testing for future product or it might just be a unplanned lease of life by efforts of few at BW. Remains to be seen..

 

I'd certainly like to think so, but frankly when you have huge AAA IPs with massive scope and strict budget guidelines and/or potential meddling from publishers, you end up with 1,000+ hours of mindless grinding and praying to RNGesus because the devs wanted to extend content with as little effort as possible. Hey, players like that, right? *sigh* 

 

I am happy to see that the public opinion on endless fetch-quests and grinding is finally becoming bad enough that many studios are attempting new approaches to "filler" content. A certain recent title about a white-haired, womanizing monster hunter was a prime example of having "filler" content (side-quests) that didn't feel like doing chores. Each was it's own fun little story-within-a-story. With all the good press on this particular topic for that game, I am quite certain many other development studios are furiously taking notes, and for that I am optimistic. 

 

Of course, a lot of players do like the grinding in the sense that it allows them an avenue of perfecting the most efficient means of performing the same action repeatedly with maximum gains, so there will always be a market for grindy games. I just hope that we see a bit more diversity in the future.

[Spectr61]

At the end of the day, using an exploit, any exploit, is just that.

ME3 speed runs on Platinum (spawn nuking) took about the same amount of time as a FC NM spawn-camp run.

Re-load cancelling same idea as attack animation cancelling.

All are exploits, yet the spawn-camp is singled out and considered "unfair" by some?

Ever see the movie Tombstone with Val Kilmer as Doc Halliday? These inconsistencies remind me of my favorite line from that movie;

"Sir, my hypocrisy knows no bounds!"

[Drasca]

or potential meddling from publishers,

 

Guaranteed in this case. It is in the contract as EA owns BW.

 

I don't know who you play with, but that person sounds amazing!  Sadly, I am stuck with Proto   ...     

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but when I say "full completion", I am not talking about speed-running, "spawn-camping", etc.  You are right though, getting 15,000 XP for a Ferelden Castle completion on Nightmare is totally OP. 

 

Some people would rather get the weapons. You obviously wouldn't mind if you're actively participating in speedrunning. These same folk are also using level 1's part of the time. . . in NM.

[Spin-Orbit]

I'd certainly like to think so, but frankly when you have huge AAA IPs with massive scope and strict budget guidelines and/or potential meddling from publishers, you end up with 1,000+ hours of mindless grinding and praying to RNGesus because the devs wanted to extend content with as little effort as possible. Hey, players like that, right? *sigh* 
 
I am happy to see that the public opinion on endless fetch-quests and grinding is finally becoming bad enough that many studios are attempting new approaches to "filler" content. A certain recent title about a white-haired, womanizing monster hunter was a prime example of having "filler" content (side-quests) that didn't feel like doing chores. Each was it's own fun little story-within-a-story. With all the good press on this particular topic for that game, I am quite certain many other development studios are furiously taking notes, and for that I am optimistic. 
 
Of course, a lot of players do like the grinding in the sense that it allows them an avenue of perfecting the most efficient means of performing the same action repeatedly with maximum gains, so there will always be a market for grindy games. I just hope that we see a bit more diversity in the future.

We are in agreement, in SP environment the fetch quest upgrade take some additional thought and programming, however in MP environment where there is no end game, the continuous power creep, growth and content demand is a interesting know for the industry to solve. Until they can make the AI itself more and more capable I think you will really not see a resolution. If the AI becomes unbeatable then we will have players whining as well, fine line. Essentially its business for them and entertainment for players..

[jeremyj26]

Speaking of exploits.  My legionnaire was level 15 or so, and for some reason went back down to three.  However I kept all the passives and skill previously accumulated.  So when I go to level him up I will be able to get all the passives and important skills.  I am probably not going to be promoting this one.

[Spectr61]

Guaranteed in this case. It is in the contract as EA owns BW.
 

 
Some people would rather get the weapons. You obviously wouldn't mind if you're actively participating in speedrunning. These same folk are also using level 1's part of the time. . . in NM.

Absolutely.

And after people get the weapons, then they will probably stop "spawn camping", as that tactic results in drastically lower XP. (See Spaces' post)

If a team wants to allow someone to bring a lvl 1 into any difficulty, so what?

With the promotion system being what it is, at what promotion level will a lvl 1 become OP for a skilled player, regardless of difficulty level?