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My take on the trilogy ending


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#1
ShadyWizard

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So I just finished the trilogy about a week ago and I have been mulling the ending over in my head. I have also delved into the indoctrination theory. This is my take on everything I have pieced together (note I have not played the dlc just watch cutscenes as I discussed, I especially encourage feedback here to help fill in any blanks I may have):

 

    Few things first. Dreams relate heavily to fighting indoctrination, from voices, shadows (oily shadows as the rachni queen mentioned?) the child no one acknowledges, and the burning at the end of each dreams. There are other clues threw out the game to suggest that Shepard is fighting indoctrination, but I will leave that in IT theory as there are quite a few (IT also has a lot of clues I think are to flimsy to give credence)

    First I think some of indoctrination theory has solid ground, as well as outside evidence (such as tweets mentioned in the documentaries). Bioware has never confirmed this theory though, and dlc events have added what many see as conflicts to IT. I think that IT has the right grounds, but goes farther that it needs to. So lets start at the begging (note: I will not go over all evidence in IT, just things I feel were deliberate and premeditated in the games creation.)

    First, Harbingers beam. I direct Reaper beam kills everyone, including Shepard as demonstrated in a previous fight with a reaper on Rannoch in mass effect 3. Though when you are hit by the reaper beam on Rannoch it simply glazes over you and you crumple. No white light! Here is the catch I noticed, Harbingers beam did not actually hit Shepard (or at least the did not show that) you can argue this one all you want, but empirically you cannot say the beam definitely hit Shepard simply because the screen whites out before it happens. He is likely just caught be the beams splash damage so to speak.

    Second the first two scenes of the citadel. First you land in a dark room that appears to be a processing center for organics. You are awakened when you hear your name and there is a pulse that jars you awake. I don't think this has any exact purpose other than ambiance that something is off. Then you listen to Anderson as you make your way to the citadel, but Anderson's wondering almost seem to be guiding you rather than explaining anything. So all of that is a bit speculative, but I feel serves a vital roll in creating this strange ambiance for the confrontation ahead. So here there are a bunch of tidbits that suggest this scene is not completely physical, and I will try to be as concise as I can. First every time the illusive man speaks there are dark wavy shadows over the edges of the screen (possibly the inky shadow reference?). Second, after Shepard shoots Anderson in the abdomen, and the conflict resolves, Shepard is the one left with the wound. But what if you let Anderson die? Anderson represents the resistant of you in this theory and the illusive man represents the indoctrinated, but not you as a whole. More like the devil and angels on your shoulders trying to convince you of a process, in the end even with there council you are the one with the decision to make. Even if Anderson dies all you have lost is his council or advice, you still resist defeat indoctrination and kill the illusive man/devil on your shoulder. Take not the echos in here, and the fact that each side is always speaking and looking or facing you, even when they are fighting each other. I get a distinct feeling of an inner struggle threw out this scene it screams internal conflict and not physical confrontation. Then in the final scene of this room you wander over to the station and fall, next a pad lifts you into the air and to the outside of the ship. Then when you arrive (out in space, you can see exactly where you are and earlier pictures of the catalyst docking with the citadel depicts that location is on the exterior of the citadel!), but you are no longer facing the correct direction. This change seems to be intentional since the extended version didn't change it.

     Third the scene in the decision chamber of the citadel. Your position is changed and you are not asleep, but you do not move as if frozen until the starchild (for simplicity I will refer to it as the starchild not as the catalyst or the intelligence) says "wake up" the you merely move to a injured but standing position. Here the starchild explains itself, the reapers, and the cycles existence and purpose. Once again echos, a phantom child (the one that you see from the beginning but no one acknowledges), and he has the voice that is both Shepard and his own (both male and female Shepard voices were used.) To me there are still alot of dream or vision like influences/ambiance in this scene, but the starchild is obviously giving you free will here, not imposing will or reason on you. Unlike the indoctrination theory I think that this is directly a communication with the starchild. Also, it does not have a reaper agenda, the reapers have its agenda! since it made them for there purpose. So of course it reasons that destroy is the worst option, that would simply be throwing away all its work. But the starchild acknowledges his flaw in design and is asking for shepards help. Note that this chamber is similar in design to the ground of earth by the beam. It seems reasonable that left and right options actually are represented by the spires next to the beam. Notice that each choice is activated not only in  a different location, but in a different manner. Perhaps the location is irrelevant, because it is how you interact with the object that counts, and the vision is simply distinguishing between which action you are willing to go. Perhaps you are still on earth and how you interact with the beam there discharges the citadel in its given way. Next lets look at the actual decision. After getting attacked by Harbinger and before you conclude your final choice, you are injured. Once you make your choice and your resolve hardens you are given new vigor (this is distinct because at the start of the final choice cut scene you are still injured just for a second then you straighten up and commit your decision with complete resolve, it isn't just an oversight when making the cut scene it is distinct.) This tells me that it is your will power tell is determining your stature not your physical state (even after you defeat indoctrination you are lost and don't know what to do before the starchild explains.) The Leviathan dlc discusses "the intelligence"  and makes it obvious that he is the "catalyst". So we know the starchild is more than just Harbinger trying to trick us, but the physical form of starchild is never discussed meaning for all we know this entity is simply digital existence that can travel between reapers and or the citadel without actually have to contain a body. It also stands to reason that if the reapers can indoctrinate people, the starchild could also influence our minds, and with as advanced as it is described perhaps enter our minds all together. We are mysteriously brought to the starchild after defeating the illusive man/indoctrination. Shepard would be the only known person to accomplish this. Perhaps this is the reason the starchild gives him/her the power of the reapers and the galaxy for Shepard is the only one worthy of decided its fate. Notice the fourth ending? I believe this is to re-enforce that the starchild is giving Shepard complete faith in deciding the best course of action, even it it goes against exactly what the starchild just said it didn't want to do.

    Finally the chosen ending. First I think that the extended cut demands the ending "slideshow" as a physical ending not a dream/vision. Also notice no echos, shadows, or other dream like ambiance. The previous ten minutes felt very wrong to me at first and I couldn't place it. Sure I could name things I felt were wrong, but not the over arching problem from the time I entered the citadel. Until I considered that I was not actually on the citadel and the events were not real/physical. That seemed to fit the best, but when the citadel goes off it is like a lens suddenly coming into focus. Everything comes off sharper and more energetic than before. The ending speeches have real purpose in the physical universe and there is no ambient changes when shepard takes his breadth (if you chose this path.) this leads me to believe that from the time the citadel goes off you are back in reality, witnessing your actions in your vision physically manifest (possibly from interacting with the beam you were near on earth.)

    I am sure there are plenty of things I saw that I left out, it is late now, but I couldn't hold this any longer I had to put it up for discussion (if anyone is interested.) I think that this theory resolves everything that bothers me about the "take it as it is" and the "indoctrination theory" approaches, because neither one sites perfectly with me. What do you think does this theory stand up? where are the biggest flaws or is it reasonable given all the evidence? do you think that this is more plausible that either the take it as it is or indoctrination theory, given the extended ending and dlc evidence?

    Note: still find it strange that if you choose synthesis or control your eyes have the same eyes as the illusive man (I don't see the same pattern in sarens can anyone share a link to an image that denotes that?) does this insinuate indoctrination? 



#2
Excella Gionne

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Everything comes off sharper and more energetic than before. The ending speeches have real purpose in the physical universe and there is no ambient changes when shepard takes his breadth (if you chose this path.) this leads me to believe that from the time the citadel goes off you are back in reality, witnessing your actions in your vision physically manifest (possibly from interacting with the beam you were near on earth.)

 

Your OP is still a wall of text despite indents indicating paragraphs, however, this part I quoted makes as less sense as IT's ending. Are you saying Shepard was on Earth the whole time?



#3
themikefest

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If Shepard is indoctrinated, why isn't Garrus? Aside from  the Arrival dlc, Garrus has seen almost as much as Shepard since he is the only squadmate that  can be with Shepard for nearly the entire trilogy



#4
Excella Gionne

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If Shepard is indoctrinated, why isn't Garrus? Aside from  the Arrival dlc, Garrus has seen almost as much as Shepard since he is the only squadmate that  can be with Shepard for nearly the entire trilogy

Lol. We must blame Shepard 'cause he/she makes the choices. :o I love how everyone forgets about the squadmates.

tumblr_inline_nrly249D5H1qho8ls_500.gif

 

I want to know if the OP made his "take on the Trilogy" first before ever reading any IT and other theories floating around out there. Reading them first will contaminate your "actual" take on the Trilogy.


  • teh DRUMPf!! aime ceci

#5
ShadyWizard

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Your OP is still a wall of text despite indents indicating paragraphs, however, this part I quoted makes as less sense as IT's ending. Are you saying Shepard was on Earth the whole time?

Yes Shepard is on the earth the entire time, but his decision still affects the citadel.



#6
ShadyWizard

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If Shepard is indoctrinated, why isn't Garrus? Aside from  the Arrival dlc, Garrus has seen almost as much as Shepard since he is the only squadmate that  can be with Shepard for nearly the entire trilogy

 Tali and Liara (except she is not arround for some of 2) would also have made good candidates for indoctrination, but the indoctrination of Shepard allowed you to see the actually see the changes and see the influence. Many point to the arrival dlc and the reaper artifact there as a potential infection point, but I doubt am not sure the story honestly has a clear answer on where/when Shepard was infected or how Shepard is the only one infected (I did not play the arrival dlc). ME3 has a clear purpose of discussing something more cerebral then the other MEs. Shepard shows frustration no matter your choices in many scenes, where in the first two Shepard would respond only based on your answers (I remember feeling like I had less control over Shepard's emotions in 3 vs the other 2.) There are never dreams in the other games, but three they are put in at moments that make them feel like important information. 



#7
ShadyWizard

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I want to know if the OP made his "take on the Trilogy" first before ever reading any IT and other theories floating around out there. Reading them first will contaminate your "actual" take on the Trilogy.

 

Note exactly, I had some serious issues with the ending when first watched it. I felt like everything was off during the citadel scene and couldn't place it. Not to mention things like Shepard dreams, screamed that they were more than just whats on the surface. I could see that there was something I just didn't know what. I may be wrong about this, but I feel that if I am then I am missing something bioware is trying to hint at.



#8
fraggle

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Yes Shepard is on the earth the entire time, but his decision still affects the citadel.

 

But it was confirmed by devs that Shepard wakes up on the Citadel when taking the breath in the Destroy ending.



#9
ShadyWizard

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But it was confirmed by devs that Shepard wakes up on the Citadel when taking the breath in the Destroy ending.

Really? Can you link me something on that I would be very interested in that information.



#10
RZIBARA

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If Shepard is indoctrinated, why isn't Garrus? Aside from  the Arrival dlc, Garrus has seen almost as much as Shepard since he is the only squadmate that  can be with Shepard for nearly the entire trilogy

 

I think IT and all that crap are dumb, BUT there is an answer to your question. Shepard was the only character that was there during the Arrival DLC



#11
fraggle

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Really? Can you link me something on that I would be very interested in that information.

 

https://twitter.com/...187404377001987

See also this thread here if interested.



#12
themikefest

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 Tali and Liara (except she is not arround for some of 2) would also have made good candidates for indoctrination, 

Liara wouldn't since she isn't in ME2 but for a few moments if the broker dlc is to be ignored

Tali only shows up halfway in ME2 and ME3

 

I think IT and all that crap are dumb, BUT there is an answer to your question. Shepard was the only character that was there during the Arrival DLC

So the Arrival dlc is the difference? How would you explain if the dlc isn't completed?



#13
ShadyWizard

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Awesome! thanks that changes a lot I will have to look over everything. Perhaps all the dreams, strange citadel ambiance appearing somewhat unreal, headaches, child nobody notices, and everything else makes a different reference (I hope it means something and is not just meaningless)



#14
ShadyWizard

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Liara wouldn't since she isn't in ME2 but for a few moments if the broker dlc is to be ignored

Tali only shows up halfway in ME2 and ME3

 

So the Arrival dlc is the difference? How would you explain if the dlc isn't completed?

If you cant point to a place or time (other than arrival) you cant say that anyone on shepards team could have been in the right place and time for indoctrination. Arrival "could" be a solution because enough is done in it to create possible indoctrination, the question is was that the dlcs purpose. Before I get chased out by torches and pitchforks here let me re-iterate this is just what I took from the ending and investigation into the parts of the game I clearly did not understand. I also feel that the devs may have had a total recall concept in mind (the first one not the remake), where everything is meant to be questioned at the end and there never is or will be an answer to whether any of it was real or not. Though there have been many comments in twitter (example above + others) that things were real at some point in the ending. There were also famous tweets put out and are in the indoctrination theory documentary where (i think it was the community manager) continually asked people to question the literal interpretation of the endings. I am not going to analyze foliage or use a program so I can look for things in the ME3 maps obviously not intended to be seen or analyzed. I am simply trying to reconcile my interpretation of the events on the citadel with the obvious existence of the starchild (not reaper indoctrination attempt, but someone superior to the reapers), and the re-iteration that the endings really happen (these are based on extended cut and dlc.) I mean if I am wrong fine, but what are the dreams suppose to mean? What are all the strange ambiance and effects put into the citadel. What about all the metaphoric dialog with anderson and the illusive man? There just seems to be more hear than meets the eye.



#15
themikefest

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If you cant point to a place or time (other than arrival) you cant say that anyone on shepards team could have been in the right place and time for indoctrination.

I'm not saying anyone. I'm only saying Garrus could be. Aside from the Arrival dlc, Garrus can be in the right place at the right time to be indoctrinated.
 

Arrival "could" be a solution because enough is done in it to create possible indoctrination, the question is was that the dlcs purpose.

And if Arrival isn't completed, then at what point would Shepard be indoctrinated? Its in that dlc that Shepard is exposed to a reaper artifact for an extended period of time whereas all the other times he/she was exposed for only a very short time

 

From what I've read on the forum from other folks is that Bioware tried to put in some form of indoctrination stuff and found out it wouldn't work or whatever. So some of the stuff seen, at the beam and on the citadel if left over from that. 



#16
ShadyWizard

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From what I've read on the forum from other folks is that Bioware tried to put in some form of indoctrination stuff and found out it wouldn't work or whatever. So some of the stuff seen, at the beam and on the citadel if left over from that. 

The thought of that makes me a bit sad. I honestly don't like the post decision endings even in extended cut, but this makes me feel like a lot of things in the game that suggested a deeper unseen meaning meaning early on and late into the game are pointless, and perhaps they just lacked the time to fully flesh out a story once they decided to go a new direction. This makes the last game so terrible in my eyes. 



#17
NeonFlux117

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It's just a Herculean Power trip fantasy. The ending is nothing more than a Deus Ex Machina plot device with a dash of The Matrix trilogy ending and a dash of transhumanism story telling.

There is no secret or hidden meaning. It is what it is.

#18
txgoldrush

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and people still don't get it.



#19
NeonFlux117

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They had the setup and material backed up by tons of lore pre-EC to make the ending truly great and a watershed moment in gaming.

But...... They pvssed out and decided to keep their Deus Ex Machina plot device and Matrix style ending.

So yeah..... Just accept it.

#20
ShadyWizard

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and people still don't get it.

I don't think that people don't get it. I think that people wanted more than this. So much set up how could this be all they intended?

 

 

They had the setup and material backed up by tons of lore pre-EC to make the ending truly great and a watershed moment in gaming.

But...... They pvssed out and decided to keep their Deus Ex Machina plot device and Matrix style ending.

So yeah..... Just accept it.

Just throw away everything that was done? That's lame, but it is starting to look that way.



#21
themikefest

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and people still don't get it.

Why don't you explain what people don't get? 



#22
NeonFlux117

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I don't think that people don't get it. I think that people wanted more than this. So much set up how could this be all they intended?
 
 

Just throw away everything that was done? That's lame, but it is starting to look that way.


Well ME3s ending is lame, lol. It just is. They really sh!t the bed with it.

#23
txgoldrush

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What people don't get is why the Catalyst helps you and how is it is NOT a deus ex machina.

 

If he was a deus ex machina, why is he unable to solve the problem?



#24
ShadyWizard

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What people don't get is why the Catalyst helps you and how is it is NOT a deus ex machina.

 

If he was a deus ex machina, why is he unable to solve the problem?

 Can you elaborate on "What people don't get is why the Catalyst helps you and how is it is NOT a deus ex machina." I would really love to better understand your point of view here.



#25
Excella Gionne

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I don't think that people don't get it. I think that people wanted more than this. So much set up how could this be all they intended?

 

 

Just throw away everything that was done? That's lame, but it is starting to look that way.

You do not have to throw it away, but the EC is canon whether you download it or not. EC disproves IT and all other speculation closely related to IT. Anything that involves an indoctrinated Shepard is disproved. DLCs besides EC are non-canon, but there are some DLCs that are still done off-screen but not by Shepard. The details within those DLCs are not mentioned if Shepard never did it in order to prevent spoiling and mentioning of events that the player has never encountered.