227 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

What troglodyte put together that abomination of a chart?

 

Somebody with a serious hard on for Obsidian. Although there is a point in that New Vegas does have:

> More branching choices in the main quest

> More weapons with mods for each of them

> More NPC factions(although the chart misrepresents this one a bit)

 

On top of that, Obsidian was handed a lot of work already finished with the game engine, basic functionality, and art assets that they re-used from Fallout 3. Bethesda could have fit more content into their game if they hadn't had to take care of all of that first.

[BabyPuncher]

It goes beyond that. Many of the elements of the story were taken more-or-less directly from the canceled Van Buren game back in 2003, which saved them a lot of writing.

 

Anyway, none of those points are very good. The story is not 'branching' in New Vegas. It's pretty much identical regardless of who you side with, aside from a few side missions that re-use areas. 'More weapons' doesn't mean anything if they're not fun and properly balanced, which they generally aren't. (Which Sawyer himself commented he was unhappy about in NV.) And saying 'more factions' equates to a better story is as silly and stupid as saying 'more characters' leads to a better story.

[Simfam]

It goes beyond that. Many of the elements of the story were taken more-or-less directly from the canceled Van Buren game back in 2003, which saved them a lot of writing.

 

Anyway, none of those points are very good. The story is not 'branching' in New Vegas. It's pretty much identical regardless of who you side with, aside from a few side missions that re-use areas. 'More weapons' doesn't mean anything if they're not fun and properly balanced, which they generally aren't. (Which Sawyer himself commented he was unhappy about in NV.) And saying 'more factions' equates to a better story is as silly and stupid as saying 'more characters' leads to a better story.

 

Hahah whatever you say.

 

FO:NV will always >>>> any Beth game ever

 

[Akrabra]

Depends on what you counts as factions. You could say that Rivet City is a faction in FO3 or atleast reputation worthy, same with Canterbury Commons, Paradise Falls, Evergreen Mills (if you could side with the raiders), Little Lamplight, Megaton etc. I like it better when you don't to show either the factions or reputation with a stat in the pipboy menu, but rather show it in game. Like if you disarm the nuke in Megaton people will then stop you from time to time and just thank you for all that you have done, Three Dog will talk about it on the radio, your dad will comment on it. That is my take on it anyway.

[Cyonan]

It goes beyond that. Many of the elements of the story were taken more-or-less directly from the canceled Van Buren game back in 2003, which saved them a lot of writing.

 

Anyway, none of those points are very good. The story is not 'branching' in New Vegas. It's pretty much identical regardless of who you side with, aside from a few side missions that re-use areas. 'More weapons' doesn't mean anything if they're not fun and properly balanced, which they generally aren't. (Which Sawyer himself commented he was unhappy about in NV.) And saying 'more factions' equates to a better story is as silly and stupid as saying 'more characters' leads to a better story.

 

Well in the battle of "more weapons but unbalanced" vs "less weapons but still unbalanced", the one with more weapons wins because at least I have more variety in how I overkill things.

 

More factions or characters doesn't make the main story any better, but they do make the game more interesting to play when you have more interesting characters and factions to play with. It's why Mass Effect 2 is so good, because of the characters that you're with.

 

Although they also misrepresented that one. Even if you don't want to count every town as a faction, they still missed the Outcasts and included the Enclave as New Vegas faction which is pretty weak considering they're like 5 NPCs and 1 quest.

 

There is a lot more endings you can get in New Vegas that come as a result of the choices you make during the main quest, though I don't personally fault Fallout 3 for that because I don't ever play to the ending of the main quest in NV anyways on account of it ending the game and preventing me from playing any more.

[BabyPuncher]

I agree. When I finally get around to playing New Vegas again, I intend to mod out the faction reputation system. Or at least large parts of it. It's a mess that just doesn't add all that much. The biggest effect is that that NPCs greet you in a friendly or hostile tone. The easily could have been gated to simply completing quests for the faction. Or at least the friendly responses.

[Simfam]

I agree. When I finally get around to playing New Vegas again, I intend to mod out the faction reputation system. Or at least large parts of it. It's a mess that just doesn't add all that much. The biggest effect is that that NPCs greet you in a friendly or hostile tone. The easily could have been gated to simply completing quests for the faction. Or at least the friendly responses.

 

[Akrabra]

FO:NV will always >>>> any Beth game ever

 

No, and no and no. Because there are 3 Beth games that are superior to New Vegas, in my opinion ofc. 

[SlottsMachine]

 

/

 

My favourite Lilly quote was, "Don't worry dear Grandma took care of the bad men." LOL. 

[SlottsMachine]

Depends on what you counts as factions. You could say that Rivet City is a faction in FO3 or atleast reputation worthy, same with Canterbury Commons, Paradise Falls, Evergreen Mills (if you could side with the raiders), Little Lamplight, Megaton etc. I like it better when you don't to show either the factions or reputation with a stat in the pipboy menu, but rather show it in game. Like if you disarm the nuke in Megaton people will then stop you from time to time and just thank you for all that you have done, Three Dog will talk about it on the radio, your dad will comment on it. That is my take on it anyway.

 

The problem is you could murder half the people in Rivet City come back a week later and everyone would be cool. 

[BabyPuncher]

The problem is you could murder half the people in Rivet City come back a week later and everyone would be cool. 

 

Which is an issue you're not going to encounter on anything but a silly 'kill everyone' playthrough.

 

Whereas the annoying problem of getting your reputation knocked down to vilified because you sniped a lone legion soldier in the middle of nowhere completely hidden is something you're quite likely to encounter.

 

I'm getting flashbacks of the horribly broken legion ambushes that have centurians coming after you when you're level 6 and armed with a varmant rifle.

[SlottsMachine]

 

I'm getting flashbacks of the horribly broken legion ambushes that have centurians coming after you when you're level 6 and armed with a varmant rifle.

 

Oh so you failed to unlock the Heroism perk, it gives +20 to your level and boosts health/damage. 

[Gravisanimi]

I'm getting flashbacks of the horribly broken legion ambushes that have centurians coming after you when you're level 6 and armed with a varmant rifle.

Deathclaw nests became a good friend of mine.

 

But then maybe you should have thought of that when you decided to wipe them out at Nipton.

[Cyonan]

Which is an issue you're not going to encounter on anything but a silly 'kill everyone' playthrough.

 

Whereas the annoying problem of getting your reputation knocked down to vilified because you sniped a lone legion soldier in the middle of nowhere completely hidden is something you're quite likely to encounter.

 

I'm getting flashbacks of the horribly broken legion ambushes that have centurians coming after you when you're level 6 and armed with a varmant rifle.

 

Sure you aren't going to run into the issue unless you're killing everything that moves, but it's still representative of the problem: You can be as big of a jerk to Rivet City people as you want and they'll never hate you for it.

 

The legion/NCR hit squads are another thing but Fallout 3 has them as well with the mercs that come after you for being too good or evil. They were just a non issue in Fallout 3 because the game is so insanely easy that you slaughter everything the game sends at you.

 

but then I prefer more of a challenge than most people might. I actually enjoyed fighting those legion hit squads, aside from the fact that they practically ignore stealth.

[Commander Rpg]

Regardless of any discussion on board, I really hope he has bought F3. For the sake of his own fun.

[Br3admax]

 

Sure you aren't going to run into the issue unless you're killing everything that moves, but it's still representative of the problem: You can be as big of a jerk to Rivet City people as you want and they'll never hate you for it.

 

The legion/NCR hit squads are another thing but Fallout 3 has them as well with the mercs that come after you for being too good or evil. They were just a non issue in Fallout 3 because the game is so insanely easy that you slaughter everything the game sends at you.

 

but then I prefer more of a challenge than most people might. I actually enjoyed fighting those legion hit squads, aside from the fact that they practically ignore stealth.

 

I'm actually going to have to stop you there. Sure Fallout NV started with better balance, but once you pass level 30, which was the old level cap in Fallout 3, unless you have a certain perk, you'll become a god regardless. In fact, I don't remember many things besides Dead Money being difficult after level 20. 

[ObserverStatus]

Which is an issue you're not going to encounter on anything but a silly 'kill everyone' playthrough.

 

Whereas the annoying problem of getting your reputation knocked down to vilified because you sniped a lone legion soldier in the middle of nowhere completely hidden is something you're quite likely to encounter.

 

I'm getting flashbacks of the horribly broken legion ambushes that have centurians coming after you when you're level 6 and armed with a varmant rifle.

Well the thing is, if Bethesda was still capable of writing a story that's more fun to play seriously than doing a silly "kill everyone" playthrough, I'd say you had a valid point.

[BabyPuncher]

All in all, I would say F3 had better writing than New Vegas. Mostly because of the supurb sidequests. F3 certainly had it's faults, but really, New Vegas had enough of it's own. There are a lot of very serious writing deficiencies that hold NV back from being a masterpiece.

 

That being said, I didn't finish F3 until Broken Steel was already out and I had it installed, so I never got the 'original' ending.

[ObserverStatus]

I'm going to be platinum mad if Fallout 4 has as many unkillable characters as Skyrim.

[Cyonan]

 

I'm actually going to have to stop you there. Sure Fallout NV started with better balance, but once you pass level 30, which was the old level cap in Fallout 3, unless you have a certain perk, you'll become a god regardless. In fact, I don't remember many things besides Dead Money being difficult after level 20. 

 

 

Well I mentioned earlier that I think both games were a bit too easy, but NV at least has a few moments of difficulty things in there at the lower levels.

 

Specifically when it comes to the hit squads that the game sends after you, the ones in NV are much stronger as well than the ones in FO3. The ones in FO3 are just free loot from the start of the game.

 

I imagine that Fallout 4 you'll become a god as well, because Bethesda isn't great at balance.

 

All in all, I would say F3 had better writing than New Vegas. Mostly because of the supurb sidequests. F3 certainly had it's faults, but really, New Vegas had enough of it's own. There are a lot of very serious writing deficiencies that hold NV back from being a masterpiece.

 

That being said, I didn't finish F3 until Broken Steel was already out and I had it installed, so I never got the 'original' ending.

 

You sort of saw the original ending. It's really just that after activating the purifier instead of waking up at the Citadel, you don't wake up at all.

 

and Fawkes is a jerk who refuses to go into the chamber full of radiation for you despite the fact that it wouldn't hurt him.

[Giantdeathrobot]

All in all, I would say F3 had better writing than New Vegas. Mostly because of the supurb sidequests. F3 certainly had it's faults, but really, New Vegas had enough of it's own. There are a lot of very serious writing deficiencies that hold NV back from being a masterpiece.

 

That being said, I didn't finish F3 until Broken Steel was already out and I had it installed, so I never got the 'original' ending.

 

Look, I'm a big proponent of ''to each his own'' and all that.

 

But, I'm sorry, this is simply wrong. Objectively wrong. Fallout 3 has mediocre writing at best, **** one at worst.

[Br3admax]

Well I mentioned earlier that I think both games were a bit too easy, but NV at least has a few moments of difficulty things in there at the lower levels.

 

Specifically when it comes to the hit squads that the game sends after you, the ones in NV are much stronger as well than the ones in FO3. The ones in FO3 are just free loot from the start of the game.

 

I imagine that Fallout 4 you'll become a god as well, because Bethesda isn't great at balance.

I dunno. I don't think it was the squads themselves that were way too easy, it was more about how you leveled up like it was nothing in FO3, as Beth doesn't know **** about actual experience balancing. I wouldn't say those hit-squads were too bad, unless you cleared out Novac really early on, and if you could do that, you should be fine anyway. 

[malloc]

[Br3admax]

That was on the last page you know. 

 

That being said, it's still pretty valid. Not as much as the chart wants to suggest, but still valid. Though there are really only three different endings that actually matter. Pick your color. The Bull, the Bear, or House. 

[malloc]

That was on the last page you know. 

 

That being said, it's still pretty valid. Not as much as the chart wants to suggest, but still valid. Though there are really only three different endings that actually matter. Pick your color. The Bull, the Bear, or House. 

Reaffirms my feelings about Neo-bethesda tho. They are too shallow, how many player elements can be used as a reaction in a bethesda game? In skyrim I could join every guild without anyone batting an eye. It looks like their current philosophy is going for density rather than an actual concrete system. I will say this though, they have an outstanding crafting framework to work with.