227 réponses à ce sujet

[SlottsMachine]

Fallout 3 did the system much better than New Vegas in that area with a percent checker instead of a threshold.

 

Personally I wasn't a fan of the RNG element with that. 

[Br3admax]

Well I am. It's much more realistic. There's no way to make it perfect, but I like it more than thresholds. 

[Akrabra]

Isn't it weird how as a dragon born you do this stuff and only the guards know? don't you find it immersion breaking? For your feats all of your actions should be travelling like wildfire. You are the new dragon born but only the guards know about it! Isn't that weird?

First of all it is Dragonborn, sorry about that. And the line the guards and other NPC's say is "You couldn't possibly be the Dragonborn of legend, could you?" See that is a question not a statement which would be "You are the Dragonborn of legend". Only about 20 people throughout the whole main quest knows that you can slay Dragons and only a few of them witness it. Also it is considered superstition that such a thing even exists because of the Thalmor trying to wipe out the history of Tiber Septim (Talos) which fueled the Civil War of Skyrim. 

 

I think the Dragonborn makes the most sense in how they are treated compared to other Bethesda protagonists, except the Lone Wanderer, which walks pretty much the same line. Makes them abit more believeable and down to earth.

[Sigma Tauri]

First of all it is Dragonborn, sorry about that. And the line the guards and other NPC's say is "You couldn't possibly be the Dragonborn of legend, could you?" See that is a question not a statement which would be "You are the Dragonborn of legend". Only about 20 people throughout the whole main quest knows that you can slay Dragons and only a few of them witness it.

 

RUMORS...

[In Exile]

Well I am. It's much more realistic. There's no way to make it perfect, but I like it more than thresholds. 

It really isn't. It's nothing like how persuasion works. RNG works for e.g. shooting because (1) you don't usually show someone lining up the shot (this is where people start complaining about missing in games like AP) and (2) we accept that there can be inherent randomness to how bullets travel.

 

But what makes speech persuasive is how it's said. The same speech can't be differently persuasive to the same person. 

[Mr.House]

FO3 is just a big world game with no substance. Plus it has Little Lamplight so it's worse by default.

[SlottsMachine]

 

But what makes speech persuasive is how it's said. The same speech can't be differently persuasive to the same person. 

 

And it can be exploited as well via save/reload. Which is something I'm probably going to do after failing a speech check with 100 speech skill. I understand that neither is perfect and that neither is particularity realistic but I prefer having a set number. I liked that you could read books and magazines to boost your skill, and didn't have to deal with any RNG element. 

[malloc]

I expect it weird for every random peasant in Skyrim to not only know what I look like, but then not write a history book about it. I expect a few people close to me, who actually do imply they know in typical, "This may happen in this video game," fashion, and nothing more. Especially with events no one actually knows about. 

Which goes onto my second point, in a world without any form of telecommunication or anything besides a vague portrait, why should literally anyone actually know not only what the Dragonborn looks like, but also every single thing they've done?

What's immersive breaking, is someone knowing suddenly every detail about what I just did minutes after I did it, when they should be growing crops and tanning leather like proper peasants. It's also great how they recognize me without meeting me in any shape or form, and how I also randomly talk to all people on the street. Real immersive. None of that is weird at all. 

 

You are literally shouting out dragon speak from your mouth , killing dragons and absorbing their souls. You think no one will know? It is also not about everyone knowing you have it wrong. The people that need to know, know. In Arcanum(which is the best example of reactivity i could find), there is no plot armor. Which means if I kill one of the most important NPC's without me knowing the mission would continue but would take into account what has happened. The reason I am bringing up this point is because the NPC's related to that character would be informed(there is also a news paper system that informs people what is happening around the world.) A selective network of NPCs are reacting to this rather than the full fledged world because that would be insane. House is a good example of this, only a selective group of people react to you killing house.

 

Bethesda are more concerned with creating actual worlds and landscapes rather than concentration on interaction. In fact most of the RPGS these days are extremely weak at this.Let us not forget, it is not just a matter of the NPC reacting to something but it is also a matter of the character using previous experience to solve these problems.

 

Let us also give another example of Fallout 3's shallowness. Could you explain to me why if you send a ghoul into purifier it has that affect on him? I thought ghouls are healed by radiation? 

[bmwcrazy]

Green Man Gaming now has Fallout 3 Game of the Year Edition for $5.44 if you use the 20% off voucher code SLICKD-EALGMG-SALESV at checkout.

It's a pretty good deal but it's always on sale for $5 during Steam's holiday sale events.

BTW, you can also get the Fallout Classics Collection for $4 using the same voucher code. These games all require Steam activation.

[The Love Runner]

Green Man Gaming now has Fallout 3 Game of the Year Edition for $5.44 if you use the 20% off voucher code SLICKD-EALGMG-SALESV at checkout.

It's a pretty good deal but it's always on sale for $5 during Steam's holiday sale events.

BTW, you can also get the Fallout Classics Collection for $4 using the same voucher code. These games all require Steam activation.

GET FALLOUT 3 GOTY NOW IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY!!

[Giantdeathrobot]

I would say that objectively bad writing is grammar, spelling errors and use of proper language, while subjectively is if you enjoy it or not. So actually I wouldn't say that the writing is objectively better in New Vegas, but i think more people enjoy it which would be subjectively. Does that make any sense?.

 

Fallout 3 does lack alot of gray in their quests compared to New Vegas, but most of the sidequests in Fallout 3 are very well constructed and actually has some underlying choices in them. And for people thinking that Bethesda can't do gray, look at Skyrim. 

 

If you ask me;  Little Lamplight is bad (atrocious, in fact) writing.

 

BoS being the White Knights of the Wasteland battling against the Enclave as the Black Knights of the Wasteland (who also have Nazi uniforms in case we were being too subtle) is bad writing

 

Being able to convince an advanced AI to kill itself with 3 lines of BS is bad writing.

 

Megaton apparently surviving on 1 brahmin is bad world building.

 

Raiders being 10 times more plentiful than civilians is bad world building.

 

Three Dawg concerning himself only with the PC's doings is bad writing.

 

Tenpenny Towers was decent up until you found out Roy really was an evil bastard, but killing him for that gives you bad karma for some reason.

 

The ending sequence is hilariously awful writing. Even after Broken Steel the game still calls you a coward for sending the guy that is healed by radiation in a heavily irradiated chamber instead of killing yourself for no reason and ruin the oh-so-dramatic mood Bethesda has ineptly set up.

 

And worse, there aren't any instance of what I could call good writing in FO3. Well, the conflict in The Pit was good, OK, I'll give them that one. The Vault 112 sequence was creepy too. But nothing else. It's all mediocre, nothing stands out unless one thinks Borderlands-esque ''OMG so random XD'' characters are good writing.

 

New Vegas has tons of good writing. Vault 11 is top notch. Most companions (especially Cass, Arcade and Raul) are very well written, special mention going to Arcade's quest. House is well written. The BoS are well written. The NCR-Legion conflict is well written. Most of the DLCs are well written, special mentions going to Old World Blues and Honest Hearts. The only instances of writing I find poor is the Legion lacking background/realism, the religious ghouls near Novac being silly, and Ulysses being a crazy rambling psycho rather than the foil he was supposed to be.

[KingTony]

New Vegas has better writing and characters, FO3 has a better world and atmosphere.

[BabyPuncher]

...

 

Do I even want to get into how laughably incompetent most of these complaints are?
 

[Akrabra]

If you ask me;  Little Lamplight is bad (atrocious, in fact) writing.

 

BoS being the White Knights of the Wasteland battling against the Enclave as the Black Knights of the Wasteland (who also have Nazi uniforms in case we were being too subtle) is bad writing

 

Being able to convince an advanced AI to kill itself with 3 lines of BS is bad writing.

 

Megaton apparently surviving on 1 brahmin is bad world building.

 

Raiders being 10 times more plentiful than civilians is bad world building.

 

Three Dawg concerning himself only with the PC's doings is bad writing.

 

Tenpenny Towers was decent up until you found out Roy really was an evil bastard, but killing him for that gives you bad karma for some reason.

 

The ending sequence is hilariously awful writing. Even after Broken Steel the game still calls you a coward for sending the guy that is healed by radiation in a heavily irradiated chamber instead of killing yourself for no reason and ruin the oh-so-dramatic mood Bethesda has ineptly set up.

Why? He is fighting the good fight on the radio, trying to get the DC wasteland's settlements to wake up and smell the apocalypse. You are a person that runs around and changes said Wasteland, why would he not talk about you? How he gets the info is abit more iffy, we will just have to rely on rumors and Caravans/Brotherhood etc spreading the word. 

 

I'll give you Little Lamplight, it has quite a stupid premise. Megaton survives on caravans that stops outside their settlement. We see farms further to the north in the Wasteland. Granted the raiders beeing so many is also stupid, its like the enemy count in Dragon Age II. 

 

Brotherhood of Steel is perfectly explained though. Elder Lyons has a different vision from the others of the Brotherhood. He wants to help the people and rebuild, and not everyone is happy about that.  Which alot of the BoS members mention, both in ambient conversation and when you ask them. Also his arc is quite good, going from purging the Pitt to becoming the savior of the DC wasteland is well written. The Enclave is the same as in Fallout 2, they are stupid evil, like Malak in Kotor. If it works for those games why doesn't it work here? The Legion are almost the same in New Vegas, granted they have some decent backstory. 

 

Tenpenny Tower had alot of potential and granted one of the outcomes of the quest is badly written. The ending could have used some work aswell, and i do not like the slideshow that much. Still the writing fits for my playstyle, because i always go in the chamber. Broken Steel is not that well written either, but they needed a contiuation because of complaining fans. Anchorage is good, Mothership Zeta has some awesome characters, Point Lookout is well written, The Pitt is amazing.

 

Also it was the first game where Bethesda had to do a different dialogue system than Elder Scrolls, and they did a good job considering what they were used to. More or less always 3 responses for flavor, enough uses of the Specials and speech, granted there could have been more. 

 

Don't think that i dislike New Vegas or anything, it has one of my favourite endings ever. I do think it is quite overrated though, and people cling to it because it was Obsidian. Let us be grateful that it was Bethesda that bought the IP and they actually let Obsidian get their hands on it again. Imagine if EA or Activision where the ones to buy it. I think i have said my piece over and over in this thread, and i should have stopped some time ago. 

[Gravisanimi]

I do think it is quite overrated though, and people cling to it because it was Obsidian.

Until less than a year ago, I had no clue anything else Obsidian did, so them having involvement in it had no weight to it.

 

Until about 2 years ago, I liked FO3 more.

 

Then I actually played New Vegas.

 

I don't think FO3 is the better one anymore.

[SlottsMachine]

Yeah, like I can't think FNV is the bees knees without having some stupid brand loyalty. Brand Loyalty is for chumps. 

[Cyonan]

Yeah, while I think Fallout 3 is underrated I was never attached to Obsidian. New Vegas was actually the first Obsidian game I ever played, and I think that it's the better game overall.

 

Fallout 3 had quite a few cases of "This seems like it would be really interesting, if they had actually fleshed it out a decent amount" while New Vegas felt like they had fleshed things out much better overall.

[Valkyrja]

Do I even want to get into how laughably incompetent most of these complaints are?
 

 

This could be hilarious.

[Sully13]

Do I even want to get into how laughably incompetent most of these complaints are?
 

true

[Dark Helmet]

This could be hilarious.

 

Speak to us David! Show us the truth of how Beth tier LOLHeroism is better than NV!

 

SHOW US THE WAY TO ENGLIGHTENMENT!!!

[DarthSliver]

I was going to give Fallout New Vegas another go but my Gamestop didn't have Ultimate edition so I decided to become Batman lol

[Cyonan]

I was going to give Fallout New Vegas another go but my Gamestop didn't have Ultimate edition so I decided to become Batman lol

 

and Batman decided to become a tank.

[DarthSliver]

and Batman decided to become a tank.

I got fallout 3 so I suppose its a blessing in away lol

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

"Dude, stop being evil."
"In my opinion, I am not evil."
"Seriously, knock it off."
"Okay."

Bethesda master writers.

[Akrabra]

"Dude, stop being evil."
"In my opinion, I am not evil."
"Seriously, knock it off."
"Okay."

Bethesda master writers.

Thats one thing in the entire game. Taking things out of context is just a poor way to prove a point. Every game has bad writing, even the games people cling to as the best games ever. Also we know that Bethesda are not the best at writing dialogue, but they have improved vastly over their last two games. They don't have as many dedicated writers as other developers do. It is mostly the original crew that worked on Morrowind that writes the lore/dialogue/story etc. Bioware and Obsidian has 5 or more dedicated writers on each project which is assigned to do just that.