194 réponses à ce sujet

[Hardin4188]

I saved the base. I was a little concerned with saving it, but I think it will help out against the Reapers. I can't say I trust the Illusive Man completely, but I really do think he is protecting humanity's interests and fighting the reapers. Which is good enough reason for me to keep working for him. We need all the help we can get.

[Hope Slayer]

Having played both endings I can only quote another sci-fi great that dealth with using or dening the advancement of certain tech....



"No fate but what we make"

[JamieCOTC]

Bullet Preacher wrote...

Did anyone notice Saren had similar eyes to him, or is it just me?

I wondered about that myself. 

[conglomerator]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Bullet Preacher wrote...

Did anyone notice Saren had similar eyes to him, or is it just me?

I wondered about that myself. 

Did Saren have any connection al all, even speculative, to TIM?

[broutefoin]

I blew up the base, thinking back on what legion said, self-determination is made of win, paraphrased of course

[Nentuaby]

I blew the thing. Saving it shouldn't even be the Renegade option- it should be the "I've never read any godamn speculative fiction" option. Renegade is doing the most aggressive or expedient thing- not the clearly wrong thing. Why do I say it's clearly wrong?

Not one piece of Reaper technology has ever been introduced and failed to take over some mind or computer network. Even a reaper's corpse turned its explorers into husks. Even something as dead simple as an IFF beacon turned the Normandy into a very expensive doorstop. So forget the ethical implications of using their genocidal technology- it's just stupid. It's being the ****** who wants to take the One Ring and turn it on Sauron. Not to mention that they have already admitted they want us using their technology. It makes us predictable, and probably easier to harvest too.

That said, that little G-Man style glimpse of him you get right at the end tells us that he's more than just some power broker making a last ditch bid for omnipotence. He's already either not remotely human, or in possession of some sort of super technology.

My theory:
TIM is an AI "gone horribly right." Somebody created it and gave it the order "protect us at all costs." It set out to do that with the single-minded determination of a HAL 9000- AIs don't have to go rogue when their actual orders are a bad idea. Now it's ready to destroy everything, everyone, else to save its creator species, and intends to meet that goal by either colluding with the reapers, or making an Anti-Reaper. It's called "The Illusive Man" because it really is an illusion that it's a man. The fact that Miranda interacted with it physically isn't really an obstacle- if it has the resources to peek through a window from halfway 'cross the galaxy, it can create a meat avatar.

[xMister Vx]

Nentuaby wrote...

My theory:
TIM is an AI "gone horribly right." Somebody created it and gave it the order "protect us at all costs." It set out to do that with the single-minded determination of a HAL 9000- AIs don't have to go rogue when their actual orders are a bad idea. Now it's ready to destroy everything, everyone, else to save its creator species, and intends to meet that goal by either colluding with the reapers, or making an Anti-Reaper. It's called "The Illusive Man" because it really is an illusion that it's a man. The fact that Miranda interacted with it physically isn't really an obstacle- if it has the resources to peek through a window from halfway 'cross the galaxy, it can create a meat avatar.

Haha. You think he's the next-gen G0-T0? That would be... interesting, to say the least. Good post.

Does anyone know if there is a vid of the ending where Shepard dies?

[monika26]

I would never give him the base. He definitely has his own agenda, and it's far more than "protecting humanity". Plus, what about the events that took place on that "dead" Reaper? How do we know that the base isn't still alive?? Cerberus sends a team in, they become indoctrinated, and then they're building a human Reaper again. That base was far too dangerous to leave intact.

[Ileanos07]

I also saw him on the roof - I am sure it wasnt bug. But it was ... Very spooky. It was one of the reasons why I destroyed the base. It was just FAR WAY too strange.

[PathofDaggers]

I didnt see him on the roof, so I'll have to check on the next play through. I just wish there was a neutral option where you sent the station on an intercept course with the black hole. That would have been epic. What I want to know is the reason behind Harbinger's comments throughout the game. What if the Reapers aren't the true threat after all? For a game like this it does seem a little too straight forward. What if they are instead our only salvation from a greater threat? Maybe they werent trying to exterminate the Protheans, but instead were trying to save them buy making them into that reaper that was mentioned to have failed. After all, we dont know how the Protheans became Collectors. We dont even know, from what I recall, that it was the Reapers that made them that way, it was just assumed.





Another thing I want to know, how did TIM know that the Reapers controlled the Collectors? He never did give us a straight answer about that.

[Eledran]

Saved the base (I was Paragon). Though I had serious doubts about it.

It seemed like a good pick on first glance: to defeat your enemy, you should know him; any possible new tech will also be needed against this threat.

On the other hand: what Legion said makes sense (form your own path) and the Reapers seem to expect the races using their technology already, they also could have rigged it with something nasty.

However, even if they know the tech behind it, it can still be an advantage to use it, you can still be killed by an enemy even if you know him, and technology can also be adapted in new forms than was originally intended.


What made me most worried was TIM's smile in the end (after I told him to shut it), I also saw his face on the ceiling before the end boss (freaky as hell).

Overall, this was a pretty damn hard decision, I feel mixed about it; but if it turns out wrong in ME3, at least I'll have fun 'righting the wrongs' etc...

Modifié par Eledran, 01 février 2010 - 09:48 .

[Deltateam Elcor]

He can go places the alliance/council cant/wont...he has obviously seen much more than we can imagine.



There is plentiful devices left by 10s of millions of years of dead or now reaperfied races to ponder and piggyback on.

[jimmyjoefro]

I wonder if turning on the Illusive Man will get you a ticket to the Shadow Broker's office. Interesting twist. Help the Shadow Broker take down Cerberus or help Liara take him out. Maybe both?

[wulf3n]

I think he does want to save humanity...with him in charge.

[Mister Mage]

The final choice was obviously "Give Cerberus the power to usurp the Alliance as the representative of Humanity" or "Screw Cerberus". The tech may help against the Reapers, but at the cost of losing humanity's...well, humanity. Giving Cerberus the reins to power for protection. It's a decision made out of fear, out of a perceived necessity. Bad people get power this way all the time, and in this case it's Cerberus. "CERBERUS IS HUMANITY!" is all I needed to hear to know I made the right choice in destroying the base. I remember, I paused at the choice for a good couple minutes. But then I decided to blow it up, if only because it was the one chance I had to give a big middle finger to the Illusive Man.

[Saskuatch]

I think it is morally grey because the alliance are a bunch of ****ing whining ****** I mean look at udina, I would much rather have illusive man as my representative

[caragh]

it's not like he can't send teams thru the omega relay to pick up little bits and pieces...i mean, the turians found out how to make the omg super duper reaper pew pew cannon out of bits and pieces of the old one.

[Ileanos07]

Saskuatch wrote...

I think it is morally grey because the alliance are a bunch of ****ing whining ****** I mean look at udina, I would much rather have illusive man as my representative

It is quite easier. Alliance is much more democratic. It, of course, has its price.
Illusive man is totalitarian.
It really isnt grey, it is choosing between morality and fear-based decision which get up ruthless dictator.... With first, you are good and moral... With second, you endanger aliens, get humans into totalitarian system and, of course, give them more technology (which could be dangerous, though... As it was said before, reapers WANT sapient races to follow their tech tree).

[Mister Mage]

caragh wrote...

it's not like he can't send teams thru the omega relay to pick up little bits and pieces...i mean, the turians found out how to make the omg super duper reaper pew pew cannon out of bits and pieces of the old one.

Actually, it is exactly like that.  The Normandy is the only ship with the Reaper IFF.  You send a ship without one into the relay, and there's a 99.9999997% chance they'll end up in the spaceship graveyard.

[Forest03]

Bioware has made a habit of making something come back and and bite your Hero/Heroine in the butt. It happened in Baldur's Gate II; it happened in DAO; and it's bound to happen in the ME series.



Speculations and predictions (some my own, some influenced by others):



The Illusive man has already been indoctrinated, just as Saren was. Everything he has been doing so far is to keep Shepard busy while, at the same time, making him/her more powerful in order to be the ultimate shell for indoctrination. It has been hinted, and possibly foreshadowed, that Shepard was implanted with a control chip. Even if they had not gone that far, what's to keep them from having placed a tracking device inside him/her?



All this time, I was wondering what the hell the Illusive Man has been staring at in his "office". It's not an office, it's an observation deck on a ship, and he has a direct view of the sun that's being affected by Dark Energy. Does Miranda know what he's been up to regarding the dying sun? What does Dark Energy have to do with the in-game lore? We don't know yet.



Cerberus's plan is that all of humanity shall rally behind their greatest hero/heroine and soldier (or something to that effect), and the Illusive Man is hoping that they'll do just that once he's taken control of or indoctrinated Shepard.



But... this is all just late-night fan fiction mumbo jumbo. We'll all find out in the next year or two in ME3

[Chrisimo79]

Corti78 wrote...

Thats the great thing about blowing the base. You still have something to show for it. Shepard and crew actually take all the data that was in the collectors base but do not hand it over to TIM. Its on the data pad Joker hands Shepard at the end.

You can be sure that TIM has the data, as well. And having that data is not the same as having that base.

[Forest03]

Does anyone here know what the Dark Energy plotline is all about? I don't recall anything significant from the mission to rescue Tali that would tie tIM to it, but he's definitely involved. We've been staring at the damn thing throughout every conversation with him.



The color of the sun itself progresses throughout the game, being mostly red with splotches of blue, then finally completely blue (if you destroy the Collector base) or back to fully red (if you keep the base). What's up with that? o_O



I've made 2 save files, just in case - one with the base destroyed and one with it intact. We'll find out what happens in ME3.

[Redlands94]

I played the entire game renegade until I got to that decision. The entire point of the mass relays and the citadel is for life to be dependant on reaper tech. For life to evolve in the way and with the vulnerabilities they want. It is not in the best interest to give reaper, collecter tech to Cerberus. They couldnt even study a dead reaper without being driven mad. It is better not to keep the base to find another way. The illusive man is wrong to think that base would help at all IMO.

[Vlainstrike]

hey, do you guys think that if instead of blowing it up, you just sabotaged the human smoothie machine by throwing some krogan into the Cuisinart blender pods you would end up with a slightly retarded reaper that likes to headbutt other reapers?

P.S. Harbinger is reluctant to kill Shepard because he wants to put Shepard's soul/personality into a baby reaper, and that's why the reaper's pawn, TIM, spent so much money bringing him back to life.

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 04 mars 2010 - 06:46 .

[Terraneaux]

xMister Vx wrote...
Haha. You think he's the next-gen G0-T0? That would be... interesting, to say the least. Good post.

Does anyone know if there is a vid of the ending where Shepard dies?

He's been stated to have been just a regular human at some point.  

And those videos are on youtube.