194 réponses à ce sujet

[Vanaer]

TIM could have implanted you with a control chip (Miranda wanted a control chip implemented), but he didn't. That shows to me he does understand that one should never sacrifice ones soul for a gain in strenght. TIM just believes the base could propel Cerberus into a far more powerful organisation. Seems logical to me.

[NebulaY]

Well a few days ago i got to my personal conclusion.
The reapers are AIs gone mad. a long time ago they were programmed by their creators to eradicate every variable in the universe thereby creating/finding/becoming the meaning of life / god.
well they couldnt do it. they were mighty machines capable of unbelievable calculating power but they just couldnt cope with emotions. so they evolved and tried to dig into this but just never reached a satisfying result.
the next logical step would be integrating biological life in their programming thereby being able to experience and mathematically calculate emotions.
but the lifeforms they found were just not diverse enough. they were just not able to dig into every aspect of emotion and so they failed the experiment.
the next logical step was to wait for other lifeforms to bloom till they were able interact with dark energy (e-zero) which builds a foundation of the universe.
to do that in a controllable way two things had to be accomplished:
1) the civilization currently roaming the galaxy had to be completely annihilated
2) it had to be made sure the species evolving had to go a certain way using e-zero

humans with their big genetic and emotional diversity (as stated by mordin) were a promising candidate therefor the try with the human reaper.
(harbinger wanted to make humans ready for "ascension". sovereign was just there to make sure reapers would arrive in galaxy)

so lets get to TIM.
hey may be one of the reaper creators left opposing their final goal because they were a great method of finding the candidated but then he wants to become god himself so they would have to be stopped the right moment. (damn..why did i let him keep the ******* base ^^)
or he may be a rogue reaper group that didnt come to consensus with the method but thought the right method to achieve true ascension would not be to build a chimera reaper but to actually "download" the reaper-mind into a therefor altered promising candidate.

the problem of a too-small human mind could be solved with a quantum link to the real processing brain of the reaper-group that could be a neutron star (a neutron star as brain and calculator was presented by alistair reynolds in one of his novels (where he also presents a civ-distroying old race so the star behind TIM could infact be a massive reaper brain.

the other reapers could have tried to create such a massive neutron brain too every now and then to link with the chimera reaper. the next one beeing dholens sun (haestrom where you rescued kal and tali)

well...weird but so far my very best guess ^^

Modifié par NebulaY, 04 mars 2010 - 10:52 .

[GenericPlayer2]

I am definitely intrigued by TIM. I can't really speculate about his agenda as this guy holds his cards really close to his chest. However, I do believe TIM is responsible for a number of things:



1. No proof found in Sovreign wreck that he was not a Geth. Sure the turians got the thanix cannons, but TIM took the really juicy parts.



2. People believe Cerberus is behind the attacks. I believe this is misinformation he intentionally placed, along with the fact that you work with Cerberus.



3. Cerberus is the only group concerned with the situation. This is related to (2) and (1). Basically TIM makes sure this is the case by spreading rumors and misinformation, as well as being the first on the scene to grab the good stuff (if there is any). He blatantly refuses to notify the Aliiance that Horizon is under attack until you go there first and resolve the situation, after which he can feed them whatever information he wants. So basically, you are forced to work with Cerberus because he has lied and spread misinformation to everyone else.



I have no proof, this is just me reading between the lines. His goal was to acquire Collector Tech all along and learn things about the reapers that no one else knows. How that fits in his grander scheme, I don't know.

[GenericPlayer2]

Vanaer wrote...

TIM could have implanted you with a control chip (Miranda wanted a control chip implemented), but he didn't. That shows to me he does understand that one should never sacrifice ones soul for a gain in strenght. TIM just believes the base could propel Cerberus into a far more powerful organisation. Seems logical to me.

In my opinion he did not use a control chip because such indoctrination devices lead to degraded skill, and he wanted Shep to be just as he was before. TIM thinks he can manipulate Shep like a pawn, so he is not worried.

[LoL]

If TIM's agenda is really all human., i'm willing to bet that he's crazy and wants to turn the human population into several reapers and basically "eliminate" the threat of humanity that to other species.

Modifié par LoL, 04 mars 2010 - 12:27 .

[superimposed]

Vlainstrike wrote...

hey, do you guys think that if instead of blowing it up, you just sabotaged the human smoothie machine by throwing some krogan into the Cuisinart blender pods you would end up with a slightly retarded reaper that likes to headbutt other reapers?

P.S. Harbinger is reluctant to kill Shepard because he wants to put Shepard's soul/personality into a baby reaper, and that's why the reaper's pawn, TIM, spent so much money bringing him back to life.

Nonsense, because the collectors were the ones who blew up the Normandy when they could have easily taken it over.

[smudboy]

Let's see:



1) TIM brought Shepard back from the dead, as close as Shepard as Shepard could be. With a few upgrades. Shepard is humanity's "best hope."

2) TIM made Shepard a brand new warship.

3) TIM is the only guy doing anything about the Collector threat.

4) TIM wants to advance and promote human dominance.

5) TIM wants to stop the Reapers.



I think his intentions are rather clear. How he goes about doing that, that is unclear. One thing we know for sure, is that he'll protect and promote humanity.



And if that involves slurpee'ing a bunch of humans to make a human reaper, or grafting Reaper tech into his brain, then the writers need to be shot from a Thanix Cannon at close range into a sewage system.

[Akeashar]

I think people read way too much into the eyes thing. They're just cybernetic implants, same as the ones you have. Except your ones glow an evil red. (Ok. I got the medbay upgrade right off the bat pretty much since I couldn't stand the scarring and weird eyes)



The sun is clearly the equivalent of the planet at the end of ME1, having done both 'good' endings with high paragon/renegade and seen the two different colours.



As to him smiling? Perhaps there is something sinister behind it, perhaps he's happy to get the technology to fight the threat.



About him being pissed at you destroying the base? TIM had you brought back to life, not as a slave, gave you a crew and a ship,. and pretty much let you do what you want, only giving you what could be considered orders a few times throughout the game. The endgame is there, the prize is within reach, a station full of technologies that could elevate humanity in a literal and metaphorical state as well as providing a weapon to be used about the incoming apocalyptic threat.



And Shepard wants to destroy it instead, not for any real good solid reason, but because of an idealistic difference? If I was in his shoes I'd be pissed as well.



If Shepard was dealing with Admiral Hackett in the place of TIM, he'd be screaming for court martial or worse. I still remember all the errands that the 5th Fleet used to send you on, and the knicker twisting that came about because of the ship inspection in ME1.



TIM's deeper intentions? I'm guessing we'll have to wait for the next novel to see. I'm curious as to how the writing'll be in that in relation to Shepard and the Collector Base, since the first two novels did a really good job of having Shepard as this illusive non-specific character that people keep mentioning but not in enough detail so that you could still slot your own Shep in.

[Rzepik2]

Youtube caption creator casts new light on the Illusive Man.


Turn on CC and watch conversation with TIM (3.05), especially 3.55.
Youtube is all racist.

[KennyJames]

I chose to save the base due to the fact you know the reapers are an enemy, you know they're coming fleet-style, and you know it took the entire alliance fleet to take down one reaper with current technology - so throwing away reaper tech by blowing the base would be a really bad idea, even if you don't trust timmy.

[shivershepard]

Akeashar wrote...

About him being pissed at you destroying the base? TIM had you brought back to life, not as a slave, gave you a crew and a ship,. and pretty much let you do what you want, only giving you what could be considered orders a few times throughout the game. The endgame is there, the prize is within reach, a station full of technologies that could elevate humanity in a literal and metaphorical state as well as providing a weapon to be used about the incoming apocalyptic threat.

And Shepard wants to destroy it instead, not for any real good solid reason, but because of an idealistic difference? If I was in his shoes I'd be pissed as well.

Personally - he put me and my team at risk intentionally twice (derelict reaper and another time I can't remember). Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. By the time we left to go to the collector base I had already broken away from TIM. I blew that base up, he sure as hell wasn't going to get his grubby hands on it. I'd rather blow it up and find another way to defeat the reapers rather than let TIM get anything from me.

Screw him he's angry, I'm angry too!

[franzos87]

At first hello everybody i am new here.

iam convinced that TIM is working for the reapers and i have found 2 fact which proof this:

1. Those of you who played ME1 may have noticed that Saren the evil turian has the same crazy eye implants as TIM

2. After you destroyed the tubes of the human reaper you can see TIM´s face in the short cutscene, i´ve made some kind of diashow of that scene, check out my album

[Rekkampum]

franzos87 wrote...

At first hello everybody i am new here.

iam convinced that TIM is working for the reapers and i have found 2 fact which proof this:

1. Those of you who played ME1 may have noticed that Saren the evil turian has the same crazy eye implants as TIM

2. After you destroyed the tubes of the human reaper you can see TIM´s face in the short cutscene, i´ve made some kind of diashow of that scene, check out my album

1) Cybernetic eye implants are probably common.

2) Glitches don't count.

[Malanek]

It's hard to say really. One of the biggest unanswered questions from ME2. He is an interesting and seemingly complex character so it is very difficult to guess his true intentions if they are different from what is apparent ie humanity first and must stop the reapers at all costs. I suspect he does have another goal but have no idea what that could be.

[Robuthad]

Its just the whole thing about TIM's final goal.

For now, yes, he is doing the right thing to save humanity because everyone else just cant believe it.

Almost at every corner though he is telling a half truth or a false lie. The Collector Ship being a perfect example along with Horizon.

If I knew for a fact that if I saved the base TIM wouldnt completely ruin it like most of the other experiments/projects Cerberus conducts. Yes, I really wanted to keep the base to use the tech against the Reapers later and advance technology a few years forward. ( Referenced in one of the books that the Collectors were a good, either 3 or 10 years more advanced than the rest of the galaxy) But because of the looming threat that while TIM would use it to fight the Reapers he would also possibly use it to destroy or somehow show power over all other races.



My Shep has always been a Renegade but knows unity and equality win the day over secluding yourself and attempting to take on the whole galaxy yourself.

This is the key reason I cant let TIM keep the base. A most wonderful example of his failed attempts is Mass Effect: Retribution. That whole disaster is enough for me to know not to let TIM take the base for himself.

[Dionkey]

Whoa, how did this get necro'd?

[Kenshen]

TIM is not saint that is for sure but I don't think he is as evil as many here think. I could have put a control chip in Shepard like Miranda wanted but he did not, a mistake I bet he wishes to take back if you destroy the base haha.



It is probably too much to expect but I think it would be really cool if for the ones that destroyed the base to have to ask TIM for his help in ME3. That would make for an interesting talk. I don't think Shepard has to watch his back as much as Miranda would. So will her "loyalty" mission in ME3 deal with her sister again and having to be saved from Cerberus?

[Last Vizard]

I seriously don't think the Reaper thalix cannons can take over ships other wise Harbinger would have done that.... they are just weapons(very advanced weapons) that are needed, I played both games the way i would handle a situation, in mass effect 2 the lesser of two evils is working for Cerberus, the other being extermination/indoctronation..... I don't think the data pad that Joker hands Shepperd is anything more than some signal thing picked up from harbinger just when he is releasing control (so if you blew up the collector base.... good bye tech), I hope the choices made in ME 1 and 2 effect how many people die in the galaxy(anyone played fable 3? if you go good, everyone dies unless you use a loop hole). Yes the Illusive Man has an agenda, its for Humanity to stand atop the galaxy and for him to be leading us at the end of this throw down with the Reapers, isn't that what we set out to do from the start of ME1 when we looked out over Earth, a stronger position for Mankind?

Why shouldn't the Illusive man rule a human controlled galaxy? Isn't Cerberus the only organisation that is actively seeking ways to stop the Reapers? (alliance plan on that colony would've failed if we hadn't shown up) yes a few Cerberus cell did some pretty bad things but it was to advance the human race by any means necessary and their other projects failed because they are trying to push the boundries as fast as possible because Man can never be sure where our next enemies will come from and when, i don't watch star trek (seemed like a prequal show thing) but i remember an episode i watched on the scifi channel where we nearly destroyed ourselves testing experimental engines so we can catch up to the other races as fast as possible....(risks need to be taken if we want to move forward asap)

Q: AND WHAT IF THE BASE IS A TRAP?
A: From what i can tell, if we don't use as much Reaper tech as possible... we are dead anyway.....(why set the Collector base up as a trap if that means losing the Collectors, a Human reaper and risking tech falling into our hands?... the Turians are the ones who recoverd the Reapers main guns, we bought them for a ship using resources minned from planets by probes.... you think that the council/governments aren't going to be able to mount these things on the majority of ships or enough to make a difference?)

We have the Reapers on the ropes people, Earth and/or other home planets are our battle for midway cause alot of this feels like its taken from modern history.... lets just hope the Reapers miss the Carriers when they attack Earth cause my money is on them playing a difference because the other race don't place too much value on them.

[Jagri]

Cerberus did walk into a trap sadly when it comes to perserving the Collector Base. The method used to clean it was a pulse rigged to kill all life in the Collector Base.

Seeker Swarms are not alive and are considered technological devices.


1:14 - What happened to the Research Team...

Modifié par Jagri, 24 décembre 2010 - 01:00 .

[Encarmine]

I want a fresh look at the opening cutscene, Miranda and TIM talking about Shepard, and how s/he is the only hope.



It ends with TIM saying 'then make sure we dont loose him'

Then we see Normandy SR1 get ambushed by the collector cruiser.



Now later in the game, TIM somhow lets the Collectors know the Virmire Survivor is on a particular planet, again they attack on que.



I really think TIM planned to have Shepard attacked at the very beginning, Miranda also knows about it. It is the only way they could get Shepard out of the Alliance, and their only chance to convince him to help them in whatever cause.



But why?

[Dean_the_Young]

Jagri wrote...

Cerberus did walk into a trap sadly when it comes to perserving the Collector Base. The method used to clean it was a pulse rigged to kill all life in the Collector Base.

Seeker Swarms are not alive and are considered technological devices.


1:14 - What happened to the Research Team...

Collector Swarms are also in their own chamber, which need not be opened.

As technological devices controlled by the Collectors, there would also be devices to, ahem, control them. Devices that could be used.

[ReiSilver]

Corti78 wrote...

The whole pro-human stuff is nothing but lies. Right from the start you know something is off about the guy and the end basically confirms it. The only thing that concerns him is his own goals and Cerberus dominating the galaxy.
The only reason he brought Shepard back is because that was the only way he had any chance at getting hold of some collector/reaper tech and data it seems.

Or perhaps Prothean data? Remember the one thing that made Shepard really unique is the Prothian cipher, his/her mind was changed so they could think like a prothean and understand the message in their brain. The more I think about it the more I think THAT was what TiM bought Shepard back for; with all their memories, everything that made them them in tact.
My theory is he had some other agent come in and get the data from Shep before you wake up, without Miranda or Wilson's knowledge. After that, well he's still got a shiney new leader to investigate the collectors, which really didn't need Shep, just someone to save the base for TiM, he doesn't need them to come back alive, just get the job done (you know that was his hope from the start) two birds, one stone.

[ReiSilver]

smudboy wrote...
And if that involves slurpee'ing a bunch of humans to make a human reaper, or grafting Reaper tech into his brain, then the writers need to be shot from a Thanix Cannon at close range into a sewage system.

Cerberus' idea of 'studying' thresher maws was to drop them on a human colony and then not warn the human soldiers that went to investigate what was going on and then experiment on the unwilling human survivor they found.
TiM's first actions in the latest novel? We have new indoctrination tech let's test it on unwilling human test subjects

slurpee'ing a bunch of humans to investigate the collector tech sounds like exactly the kind of thing they'd do.

Modifié par ReiSilver, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:22 .

[Jagri]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Jagri wrote...

Cerberus did walk into a trap sadly when it comes to perserving the Collector Base. The method used to clean it was a pulse rigged to kill all life in the Collector Base.

Seeker Swarms are not alive and are considered technological devices.


1:14 - What happened to the Research Team...

Collector Swarms are also in their own chamber, which need not be opened.

As technological devices controlled by the Collectors, there would also be devices to, ahem, control them. Devices that could be used.

Perhaps one would need to pass through a Seeker Swarm chamber in order to get to the device.