194 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Jagri wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Jagri wrote...

Cerberus did walk into a trap sadly when it comes to perserving the Collector Base. The method used to clean it was a pulse rigged to kill all life in the Collector Base.

Seeker Swarms are not alive and are considered technological devices.


1:14 - What happened to the Research Team...

Collector Swarms are also in their own chamber, which need not be opened.

As technological devices controlled by the Collectors, there would also be devices to, ahem, control them. Devices that could be used.

Perhaps one would need to pass through a Seeker Swarm chamber in order to get to the device.

Because that is totally impossible, as Shepard proved.

OH WAIT-

[Jagri]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Jagri wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Jagri wrote...

Cerberus did walk into a trap sadly when it comes to perserving the Collector Base. The method used to clean it was a pulse rigged to kill all life in the Collector Base.

Seeker Swarms are not alive and are considered technological devices.


1:14 - What happened to the Research Team...

Collector Swarms are also in their own chamber, which need not be opened.

As technological devices controlled by the Collectors, there would also be devices to, ahem, control them. Devices that could be used.

Perhaps one would need to pass through a Seeker Swarm chamber in order to get to the device.

Because that is totally impossible, as Shepard proved.

OH WAIT-

OH WAIT- Gifted Biotics don't grow on trees...  You can see from the video provided a strong human biotic named Jacob fails to hold onto a biotic barrier resulting in the death of a team member. Cerberus also doesn't employ the services of Asari for their biotic abilities so they don't have a large pool of Biotics to choice from and likely none anywhere near Jacks level let alone Samaras.

Modifié par Jagri, 26 décembre 2010 - 04:13 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Jagri, you realize that (a) Cerberus can take time and care to organize biotics for shorter durations without facing any sort of Collector resistance that stalled and halted the team in the assault, ( there are proven means to stop/block Seekers, such as containers that could be made/brought in to protect the VI/researchers looking for any such 'off' switch, and © the problem of needing to enter the Seeker Swarm chambers to deactivate the seeker swarms which remain isolated in that single chamber in the first place, all that remains a problem of your own invention and not given/implied/stated in any other source?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 26 décembre 2010 - 04:17 .

[Xilizhra]

Bloody hell, is there any possible way a thread can talk about Cerberus and decisions without turning into a Collector base argument?

[Jagri]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Jagri, you realize that (a) Cerberus can take time and care to organize biotics for shorter durations without facing any sort of Collector resistance that stalled and halted the team in the assault, ( there are proven means to stop/block Seekers, such as containers that could be made/brought in to protect the VI/researchers looking for any such 'off' switch, and © the problem of needing to enter the Seeker Swarm chambers to deactivate the seeker swarms which remain isolated in that single chamber in the first place, all that remains a problem of your own invention and not given/implied/stated in any other source?

(A) A logical idea which could have been applied to the Derelict Reaper but evidently even when problems began to surface with research team Cerberus took no action. I am sure a Reaper is near as much value as the Collector Base. Now without resistance you still need a biotic capable of generating a field and even with the gifted talent of Jack they had to move slowly I just don't see the average human biotic capable of holding a barrier that long but there is no means or measure to the system. ( There is no proven means to block Seekers as they seem to be able to get within closed spaces when colonies were attacked weather it was with the aid of the Collectors is unknown but they could just as likely have methods for bypassing them. Containers are a good idea but video shown displays they have a capability to raise objects larger then themselves when they gather in mass. © That single chamber I believe expands a large portion of the station and seemed to be a prove a vital point to pass through to get to other sections of the station.

Hehe alright enough of that then from me. I will try keep it on topic my apologies!

Modifié par Jagri, 26 décembre 2010 - 04:32 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

Bloody hell, is there any possible way a thread can talk about Cerberus and decisions without turning into a Collector base argument?

[XFemShepX]

This might be a stretch.



TIM's bionic-tech looking eyes always threw me a little. I know it's normal for humans to have tech upgrades in the ME universe and all, but how come no one else, NO OTHER human in the ME world has eyes like that? So then I started thinking about Saren--how after you kill him, Sovereign basically "resurrects" him through his "upgrades"....and then I started thinking some more (dangerous, I know.)...



...But what if TIM is indoctrinated? What if he's a sleeper agent of the Reapers? I mean, Saren couldn't possibly be Sovereign's only puppet, and then there's the business with Cerberus setting up shop to study the downed Reaper you get the IFF from, y'know? I'm not saying he was ALWAYS indoctrinated, but just that it happened along the way somehow.



Which leads me to my next point. What if the Collectors weren't the bad guys? What if they had been somehow working *against* the Reapers (hard to argue, I know)? I mean, we think we have this all worked out--the Reapers lift the most promising species up to be liquified and made into a species-Reaper, and then they basically all devour the galaxy in a couple centuries. But what if we're wrong about that assumed process? I can't really place my finger on why I think there's more to it than that.



Anyways, just my two cents.

[Xilizhra]

Which leads me to my next point. What if the Collectors weren't the bad guys? What if they had been somehow working *against* the Reapers (hard to argue, I know)? I mean, we think we have this all worked out--the Reapers lift the most promising species up to be liquified and made into a species-Reaper, and then they basically all devour the galaxy in a couple centuries. But what if we're wrong about that assumed process? I can't really place my finger on why I think there's more to it than that.

If it weren't for the fact that Harbinger was driving the Collectors, I'd find that more plausible. The only way I can see TIM working for the Reapers, though, is if ME2 was a test to see who was stronger, Shepard or the Collectors. But if that's the case, it still seems like a lot of expended resources...

[Jagri]

Think there has been topics posted before about TIMs eyes looking similar to Sarens. I know some tried to use that as proof of TIM being indoctrinated to some degree or another.

I just don't think there is enough evidence to confirm anything. Just have to wait for Mass Effect 3 to fill in the blanks or maybe that new comic release may shed more light.

Modifié par Jagri, 26 décembre 2010 - 04:50 .

[In Exile]

Tim's eyes are like renegade Shepards. I think paragon Sheps eyes were going to change like that too but it was later cut. So with the blue glow, TIM actually has a slightly more full paragon bar.

[XFemShepX]

I'm not sure.



As far as Harbinger controlling the Collectors...yes, that's the sticking point in the dilemma. What if the Collectors were making the human Reaper as some kind of weapon different, and against the reapers? And if we uplifted all the "chosen" species to liquified Reaper-hood, then why weren't the Protheans chosen for this (as they supposedly spanned most of the galaxy), instead of servitude? Maybe they are controlled somehow, but rebelling.



As for TIM's indoctrination, I'm not sure. I don't think the Saren-ish eyes are proof of indoctrination, just that I haven't seen tech'd out eyes on anyone else. Also, in order to form a group LIKE Cerberus, you have to be a bit of an extremist. And if the Reapers promised TIM human supremacy, why wouldn't he? Also, who's to say he's aware he's even indoctrinated? His scientists on the dead Reaper could have given him those tech upgrades as the fruits of their research and essentially merged him biologically with Reaper parts. It's apparent that even the "dead" Reaper was messing with the Cerberus scientists' heads, so it's entirely possible that he's unaware, but silently manipulated.

[jedishephard]

Corti78 wrote...

The whole pro-human stuff is nothing but lies. Right from the start you know something is off about the guy and the end basically confirms it. The only thing that concerns him is his own goals and Cerberus dominating the galaxy.
The only reason he brought Shepard back is because that was the only way he had any chance at getting hold of some collector/reaper tech and data it seems.

For those of us that went against him I see him posing a problem in ME3. Though I'll have no problem putting a bullet between his eyes if I'm given the chance.

if you look at the dossiers in LOTSB dlc, it says under miranda that she would be a good shadow broker agent "when the illusive man is assassinated and Cerberus is destroyed" so Illusive Man will probably get whacked in ME3

[Encarmine]

If were all talking about the collector base, anyone else feel sad for the Prothean Bug Lord thing once Harbinger releases control??



I get the impression the poor thing was able to think for himself for the first time in 50'000 years... for about 3 seconds lol

[DarkSeraphym]

jedishephard wrote...

Corti78 wrote...

The whole pro-human stuff is nothing but lies. Right from the start you know something is off about the guy and the end basically confirms it. The only thing that concerns him is his own goals and Cerberus dominating the galaxy.
The only reason he brought Shepard back is because that was the only way he had any chance at getting hold of some collector/reaper tech and data it seems.

For those of us that went against him I see him posing a problem in ME3. Though I'll have no problem putting a bullet between his eyes if I'm given the chance.

if you look at the dossiers in LOTSB dlc, it says under miranda that she would be a good shadow broker agent "when the illusive man is assassinated and Cerberus is destroyed" so Illusive Man will probably get whacked in ME3

It's possible, but what I gathered from LOTSB is that Cerberus just became more powerful than ever before, possibly even moreso than what could possibly be gained from that Collector Base. Liara seems to feel some sort of obligation to them due to them bringing you back, likewise even moreso after TIM offered her the info to attack the Shadow Broker. I got the vibe from LOTSB that Cerberus has more or less just absorbed the Shadow Broker Intel Network.

[Jagri]

Encarmine wrote...

If were all talking about the collector base, anyone else feel sad for the Prothean Bug Lord thing once Harbinger releases control??

I get the impression the poor thing was able to think for himself for the first time in 50'000 years... for about 3 seconds lol

Freeeeeeeeedommmmm!.... Err what is that... Oh nos! *Dies in flash of light* 

Yes I do feel sorry for the little bugger.

[Asheer_Khan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Bloody hell, is there any possible way a thread can talk about Cerberus and decisions without turning into a Collector base argument?

Like i say once... for many pro cerberus people on this thread C-Base become almost similar to Sauron's ring...
So it's obvious that in 99.9% cases regarding tim's organization soon or later (very soon i would say <_<) C-base will surface derailing entire thread to pure flame war ...

[Encarmine]

Well, I dont understand the whole logic of playing just one shepard, i have a playthough for almost every outcome, so ill see what happens either way

[Inverness Moon]

XFemShepX wrote...

but how come no one else, NO OTHER human in the ME world has eyes like that?

Shepard does.

And yes your whole theory is quite the stretch. You seem to be overlooking the simple and obvious explanation that the eyes are intimidating and part of the image that TIM projects to those he meets, much like the star in the background. That is the same reason my renegade Shepard keeps his glowing red eyes and scars.

Additionally, people disguise their cybernetics when they want to fit in with others for one reason or another. TIM obviously feels no need to do that, and neither does my Shepard.

I always find it ridiculous when people come up with wild theories based on TIM's eyes. In my opinion, people who do that are looking for reasons to think badly about TIM rather than thinking objectively.

Corti78 wrote...

The whole pro-human stuff is nothing but lies. Right from the start you know something is off about the guy and the end basically confirms it. The only thing that concerns him is his own goals and Cerberus dominating the galaxy.
The only reason he brought Shepard back is because that was the only way he had any chance at getting hold of some collector/reaper tech and data it seems.

For those of us that went against him I see him posing a problem in ME3. Though I'll have no problem putting a bullet between his eyes if I'm given the chance.

It was a long time since this was posted, but I'll reply anyways.

I think the whole idea that you could determine TIM's inner feelings and motivations from that single line is complete bull****. You may prefer one-dimensional characters in your stories but I don't. Anyhow, I'm looking forward to that comic series about TIM that begins next month.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 26 décembre 2010 - 07:17 .

[XFemShepX]

I know in the ME world, people are genetically enhanced, often in utero, but it is a fact that many people are cybernetically enhanced? Because I don't remember reading that. Iverness, when you talk about "people disguising their cybernetics to fit in", can you give an example of that, besides Shepard?



I mean, it's possible I'm wrong--I just don't remember anything like that.



Anyways, I don't think badly of TIM because of his eyes. I think badly of TIM because he's the guy who directs all the awful experiments that we've fought against throughout the ME experience. Even in the Overlord DLC, if you go renegade at the end, you are still essentially pissed and rail against the whole unethical project, claiming that it better reap some rewards in the end.



I'm not claiming that the illusive man is one-dimensional--he's VERY complex. How complex, we'll see soon, when the comics come out.



I still have a feeling that he's somehow connected to the Reapers. And it's not just because he has freaky eyes.

[Exile Isan]

Drodjan wrote...

Didn't the IM shut down Project Ascension after he learned about the experiments they were doing on the children?

The Ascension Project is a school for biotic kids run by the Alliance. If you mean the Teltin facility on Pragia, TIM claimed that he ordered it shut down prior to the rebellion of the kids there but that is just what he says and considering he gives you half truths and occasionally outright lies I'm not sure if I would take his word for anything.

At least the guy has some scruples. I also thought that Project Overlord was rogue and the IM was not behind it? Can anyone confirm?

Overlord was still under TIM's control. It just lost contact with Cerberus high command so TIM sent Shep there to investigate.

[LordNige]

If you look at what Illusive means, it means pertaining to an Illusion. I wouldn't be surprised if TIM wasn't even a man, it is somewhat countered by the fact that he is seen in the same room as Miranda at ME2's beginning. As for his agenda, we know from ME1 that Cerberus' research has been extremely unethical to the point where it would harm humanity. ME2 TIM's goals are more clean cut on the surface but you do get the impression that he is a man out for his own ends.

[Inverness Moon]

XFemShepX wrote...

Iverness, when you talk about "people disguising their cybernetics to fit in", can you give an example of that, besides Shepard?

I don't have another example, and I didn't think one needed to be given. It is human nature to want to fit in with others for whatever reason. The non-humans are apparently not all that dissimilar, so I'm sure it applies to most of them too.

[EZ Esquire]

LordNige wrote...

If you look at what Illusive means, it means pertaining to an Illusion. I wouldn't be surprised if TIM wasn't even a man, it is somewhat countered by the fact that he is seen in the same room as Miranda at ME2's beginning. As for his agenda, we know from ME1 that Cerberus' research has been extremely unethical to the point where it would harm humanity. ME2 TIM's goals are more clean cut on the surface but you do get the impression that he is a man out for his own ends.

There is a lot of speculation but in the book where the
character was introduced, Ascension, he is described as an average human man,
though a rich tycoon.

Cerberus is a human organization and though the IM goals may
have evolved over time the organization has stuck pretty close to original
intent.  The IM has placed resources into
many different facets to advance humanity over all other races.

Cerberus tries to obtain any kind of advantage to further
its goals.  Biotic research for humans,
spying on all other races, Rachni, control of the Geth and now Collector
technology.  If it will mean a possible
advantage for the human race Cerberus will go after it.

I do not think it is a reach to think the IM is corrupt as
power tends to do but there is every reason to believe his original intent is
still in place. 

Humans first by any means necessary.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

conglomerator wrote...

I'm also curious how the Illusive Man would react if Shepard and his whole team died and the Collector base was destroyed...

No, but if that happens and the base is kept, he is ridiculously happy. It gives off all kinds of bad vibes.