415 réponses à ce sujet

[Korva]

Hm, regarding human!Cole and the Blight: I don't think it's possible for him to contract it. While a spirit's body is reflected by their mental state, it doesn't mean that all functions that require living cells will work. Human!Cole still doesn't eat or drink, even though he bleeds because it's expected of him. He breathes air because it's expected of him and necessary to speak.

 

Yes, it's more accurate to say that this outcome of his quest makes him more human. Not fully human, or solely human. Otherwise he couldn't read/feel people or places at all anymore, couldn't move as he does, and would immediately be subject to all the mortal physical needs and weaknesses. Whether this will change with time is anyone's guess, but at this point at least, he might hopefully still be safe from the taint.

Avernus was around spirits for about a century, either summoning them or fighting. He was pretty adamant that the Taint was alien to spirits, and not once did he see evidence of weird corruption in them.

 

So there is at least one source regarding this question. Thanks, and good to know. (The only DLC I ever played was Stone Prisoner, and that's only because that one came with the base game.)

 

Any additional thoughts on your recent question of how accurate his "readings" are, by the way?

[electricfish]

Hmm...I would say that a spirit's accuracy is only as good as their interpretation of feelings or thoughts. In several cutscenes where we watch Cole speak about what is going through the minds of people dying, or those who hurt enough to need him, he doesn't seem to directly transpose what a person is thinking exactly. Just the..main subject, I guess? He's a very lateral thinker and it's reflected when he's audibly trying to work out the main pain points of a person by way of sight, sound, or touch associated with a subject. Tin jangle of armor. Cracked, brown lips.

 

I'm sure at this point Cole is practiced in connecting a feeling to a real world object. He doesn't have to guess at what a pond is, or what a dead body looks like. If he came across a thought that he didn't know the meaning of, he would have to extrapolate what it is and how to manipulate it's affect on a person by way of senses associated with its memory and the person's current feelings.

 I think there's an innate sensitivity regarding how a spirit perceives a mortal, which is influenced by what the spirit represents (desire, wisdom, justice, etc.). They're good at sensing qualities related to whatever part of the psyche they've attached themselves to, as evidenced  by Cole specifying that he can only read the minds of those who need him. In Asunder, his thought process for helping is rather different than how he is presented in Inquisition. He can sense pain, sadness, anger, but doesn't seem to be as sensitive to the intricacies of those emotions as he is now, even as human!Cole.

 

A spirit who is new to the mortal world might find themselves confused while it tries to interpret what a word or an idea is, simply because they have no frame of reference for it. They can imagine the concept, but don't actually understand what it means. Which is...basically what dreaming in the Fade represents. A spirit has to learn to somewhat overcome or work around that limitation of imagination.

I guess? I dunno, I think I got a bit rambly and lost track of my train of thought. If I have a point, I don't know what it is now!

[electricfish]

There is a stunning lack of pictures in this thread. Have a spirit man with a fluffy animal.

 

Source: http://nanananananab...st/124330463544

[Korva]

I guess? I dunno, I think I got a bit rambly and lost track of my train of thought. If I have a point, I don't know what it is now!

 

That's a bit broader or more generic than my reply was, but I mainly agree.

 

There is a stunning lack of pictures in this thread. Have a spirit man with a fluffy animal.

 

I like the expression on his face -- that rabbit is in good hands. I also like how thin/bony said hands are because it matches the kind of sickly/underfed-looking mental image I have of him overall.

 

Here's one of my favourite images, under a spoiler tag due to size:

Spoiler

 

And an equally awesome bonus Cassandra from the same artist:

Spoiler

 

Put them side by side and it's almost like they're having a friendly/happy moment together.

[electricfish]

I'm not sure how you all will feel about this, but I will give this to you in parodied nursery rhyme form. xD

 

Old Man Cole was a merry old soul

and a merry old soul was he.

He called for his hat and he called for his beard,

and he called for his hidden blades three.

Every blade he had a cloak,

and a cloak of shadow had he;

Oh there's none so rare, as can compare

With Man Cole and his hidden blades three.

[NKnight7]

I'm reading Asunder right now and I think it's probably my favorite DA book, I love seeing Cole and Wynne and finally learning about Rhys and Evangeline since the first time I heard about them was in Inquisition. That's one scene I would love to see, a Cole and Rhys reunion.

[Korva]

Holding my breath for any spoiler-free info from early adopters regarding our favourite compassionate friend in the new DLC. Can we talk to him this time? Have you heard any banters between him and another companion?

[electricfish]

I've only gotten to play a little bit of the DLC (due to interesting mod related bugs), but there doesn't seem to be much banter with companions. A certain spirit man said something very foreshadowing in the very beginning of the DLC, but the only banter I've gotten is between other NPCS and not our standard companions.

[redbowlingball]

I took Cole, Varric and Solas and was pretty sad at the lack of chat - they spoke occasionally, but more to the air/Inquisitor than each other. Cole did have one line at a dramatic moment which I liked and made me glad I took him. However, considering the massive lore-drop you get at the end of the DLC, the total silence from the companions was just astonishing. 

[Phalaenopsis]

Although I'm really enjoying myself with the DLC, I'm very disappointed in the lack of companion banter in the Descent... Fortunaltely Cole is here to save the day, as usual...

 

I just saw that stunning watercolor painting of Cole on Tumblr by Anael D. Flowright. Thought I should share it here.

 

 

[redbowlingball]

I don't understand why there's so little interaction between companions in Inquisition DLC. Bioware knows that party banter is one of the things that makes them stand out so why bother to get the actors to record lines and not include any chat with each other? Missed opportunities... 

 

Anyway. So there's this one song that I love which, while not too exact in the lyrics, puts me in mind of Cole every time I hear it. It's 'Ghost' by Kate Rusby and it's just so beautiful and haunting. 

 

[Korva]

I don't understand why there's so little interaction between companions in Inquisition DLC. Bioware knows that party banter is one of the things that makes them stand out so why bother to get the actors to record lines and not include any chat with each other? Missed opportunities...

 

That is what I really don't get, yes. I might get the DLC if it goes on sale, but all I heard so far makes me feel even more "meh" than what I was about JoH.

 

At any rate, I'm ... kind of a tiny bit happy that at there are at least a few brief PC/NPC interactions, because I usually feel so superfluous in the field, as if I'm not even there, when all the banter is just NPC/NPC or purely an NPC comment without a follow-up. It was always a rare joy during the main game when the Inquisitor got to say something and a companion responded, or vice versa, even if it was just 2-3 words each. One favourite moment I remember was my character sarcastically asking "Shall we knock?" as we were about to take Griffonwing Keep. Every NPC has a brief reply, though sadly only one party member gets randomly selected to say theirs. Cole's is, "You knock louder than I do" which kind of made me grin, because given his powers I didn't think he knocks at all.

 

Anyway. So there's this one song that I love which, while not too exact in the lyrics, puts me in mind of Cole every time I hear it. It's 'Ghost' by Kate Rusby and it's just so beautiful and haunting.

 

Haunting, yes. Isn't his original Tarot card called "The Moon", incidentally? And the video has all the sadness and loneliness in the abandoned buildings, things forgotten or discarded like he/the original Cole was. That sort always makes me wonder what memories such places have seen ... he, of course, could read them all.

[redbowlingball]

 

 

That is what I really don't get, yes.   I might get the DLC if it goes on sale, but all I heard so far makes me feel even more "meh" than what I was about JoH.

 

At any rate, I'm ... kind of a tiny bit happy that at there are at least a few brief PC/NPC interactions, because I usually feel so superfluous in the field, as if I'm not even there, when all the banter is just NPC/NPC or purely an NPC comment without a follow-up. It was always a rare joy during the main game when the Inquisitor got to say something and a companion responded, or vice versa, even if it was just 2-3 words each. One favourite moment I remember was my character sarcastically asking "Shall we knock?" as we were about to take Griffonwing Keep. Every NPC has a brief reply, though sadly only one party member gets randomly selected to say theirs. Cole's is, "You knock louder than I do" which kind of made me grin, because given his powers I didn't think he knocks at all. 

 

I got that line a few days ago   I do wish there was more opportunity to establish the Inquisitors character, or at least get to know her a bit more. I get that this one voice has to represent all races and backgrounds, but sometimes the delivery is just too bland for me to feel connected to my Inky, so I loved that comment about knocking. I was like 'Aha! She does have a personality!' But then I loved DA2 and my sassy Hawke (I think more people would have liked that game if they had gone for a sarcastic lady Hawke). So yup, I did like the occasional option to respond to the party banter in Inquisition. I'd love it if our character could interject more often or influence the relationships of others - like telling Sera to shut up and call Cole by his name or GTFO and things like that. But then lots of people want lots of things from these games. With all the lore dumping complicating things further I hope Bioware is going to be able to deliver for everyone. Sometimes I feel like the story they want to tell is too big and complicated for the game they can afford to make. 

 

 

 

Haunting, yes. Isn't his original Tarot card called "The Moon", incidentally? And the video has all the sadness and loneliness in the abandoned buildings, things forgotten or discarded like he/the original Cole was. That sort always makes me wonder what memories such places have seen ... he, of course, could read them all.

 

That's it, this is officially my canon Cole song. It pretty much already was, but this seals the deal. Although...it kind of also works lyrically for a dumped Lavellan post-game too. Hmm. 

[Korva]

I got that line a few days ago   I do wish there was more opportunity to establish the Inquisitors character, or at least get to know her a bit more.

 

Yes, and that goes hand in hand with my old litany about wishing for actual reciprocative PC/NPC bonds. We need more roleplaying opportunities to actually make our character a character, many of us want more interactions with the companions/advisors, so why not solve two problems at once by having more interactions that are on an even keel or focused on the protagonist instead of the NPC?

 

I get that this one voice has to represent all races and backgrounds, but sometimes the delivery is just too bland for me to feel connected to my Inky, so I loved that comment about knocking. I was like 'Aha! She does have a personality!' But then I loved DA2 and my sassy Hawke (I think more people would have liked that game if they had gone for a sarcastic lady Hawke).

 

Heh, I on the other hand prefer the serious/thoughtful sorts. There's definitely a time and place for a bit of humor, but I really dislike sarcastic lines that are sprung on me without warning (i.e. without a clear indicator and/or proper summary on the dialog wheel) because they so easily turn a seemingly supportive line into an assh*le moment.

 

So yup, I did like the occasional option to respond to the party banter in Inquisition. I'd love it if our character could interject more often or influence the relationships of others - like telling Sera to shut up and call Cole by his name or GTFO and things like that.

 

Agreed. There are a few occasions in which you can ask Cole to back off, but none in which you can tell others to get off his case. It was also weird that we can't comment on, say, the post-Adamant banter between Cole and Cass in which he asks where the Inquisition will go if they start hurting people. (My Inquisitor, whose biggest fear is corruption, would definitely give a "stop me by any means I ever show any signs of that" speech to mirror Cole's kill-me-if-I-hurt-people to these two most cherished friends ... and a promise to always listen and value their advice, even if, like at Adamant, she makes choices they don't agree with.)

 

But then lots of people want lots of things from these games. With all the lore dumping complicating things further I hope Bioware is going to be able to deliver for everyone. Sometimes I feel like the story they want to tell is too big and complicated for the game they can afford to make.

 

Yes, I agree with this as well ... for my part, I really wish they'd focus first and foremost on telling in-depth and self-contained stories around a well-realized protagonist and her also well-realized companions. Lore dumps, cliffhangers, cameos and NPC mysteries can be fine, if they stay in the background. We only get one game per protagonist in this franchise, let that one game be each protagonist's game, please.

 

 

Unrelated new topic for those who are interested: Cole and humor. Any thoughts about that? Do you think his unintentionally funny banters with Blackwall and Dorian are played straight, or do you wonder if there is some deliberate element of gentle teasing to it? Does even gentle teasing suit his character? How do you see his understanding and expression of humor develop, if at all, for both the more-spirit and then more-human side of him? And so on.

[Phalaenopsis]

Unrelated new topic for those who are interested: Cole and humor. Any thoughts about that? Do you think his unintentionally funny banters with Blackwall and Dorian are played straight, or do you wonder if there is some deliberate element of gentle teasing to it? Does even gentle teasing suit his character? How do you see his understanding and expression of humor develop, if at all, for both the more-spirit and then more-human side of him? And so on.

I'm not sure Cole teases on purpose most of the time until the (only?) moment when he actually makes a real joke during the banquet scene as spirit!Cole if you don't take him to the last battle ("I can make you forget" "I was joking"). All the "knock-knock" banters with Varric are proof he really doesn't get it when it comes to that kind of humour...

 

I find it wierd that the only moment when he makes a joke on purpose is on his spirit path... 

[Korva]

Yes, we do know he has trouble actually telling -- and most likely also compregending -- jokes. What more-spirit-Cole says at the banquet falls more into the "gentle teasing" category than the "anecdote with a canned puchline" one. I think the former may be easier for him to grasp because it's personal, based on the character and feelings of the person he's talking to, while the latter is more "abstract" and impersonal. Either way, it felt like a pretty big moment, so I agree it's almost certainly the first time he purposefully got humor right. I wish the Inquisitor could react to it -- and that it wasn't dependent on not bringing him to the final fight.

 

There is an earlier (which makes sense) display of him grasping humor on the more-human path, too, though: during the dinner cutscene, when he goes into the difficult personal stuff from his past. If you don't pick the explicitly supportive top reply but the dismissive/jokey middle one, he interrupts you and finishes your sentence, basically doing an impression of the Inquisitor. Meaning he read the intent as humorous-to-lighten-the-mood instead of actually dismissive, and reponds in kind before calling your bluff. He sounds more confident doing it than his more-spirit-self does, too -- Cole's little quip at the banquet comes with an almost self-conscious little chuckle as he explains he wasn't serious, as if he isn't quite sure if he got it right.

 

(I wouldn't pick that middle option if I picked the more-human-path because Cole's reaction to the supportive top reply is so beautiful ... more-spirit is my definite canon, but that is definitely up there among his most touching ones overall. The more-human equivalent to the quote in my sig, basically. Gotta love this character.)

[Phalaenopsis]

There is an earlier (which makes sense) display of him grasping humor on the more-human path, too, though: during the dinner cutscene, when he goes into the difficult personal stuff from his past. If you don't pick the explicitly supportive top reply but the dismissive/jokey middle one, he interrupts you and finishes your sentence, basically doing an impression of the Inquisitor. Meaning he read the intent as humorous-to-lighten-the-mood instead of actually dismissive, and reponds in kind before calling your bluff. He sounds more confident doing it than his more-spirit-self does, too -- Cole's little quip at the banquet comes with an almost self-conscious little chuckle as he explains he wasn't serious, as if he isn't quite sure if he got it right.

Ah yes I had forgotten that one! Precious...

[redbowlingball]

 

Heh, I on the other hand prefer the serious/thoughtful sorts. There's definitely a time and place for a bit of humor, but I really dislike sarcastic lines that are sprung on me without warning (i.e. without a clear indicator and/or proper summary on the dialog wheel) because they so easily turn a seemingly supportive line into an assh*le moment.

 

 

Oh I agree that the 'funny' stuff should be clearly marked, I hate when that happens, but the way sassy Hawke was written was really well done. I liked that I was able to establish her as a humour-to-deflect-horror sort of person but still had the option to select the supportive/diplomatic lines when they were really needed without altering her fundamental personality. Having the odd venture into aggressive lines when she was pushed too far was good as well. It was a smart idea and made me feel like I really got to know her since she came across as a real person. With Inky, sometimes I'll pick a line and be like 'whoa, that's not what I meant' or 'where the hell did that come from?'. Sometimes the way she talks reminds me of a petulant 11 year old, particularly in her early chats with Solas. And yet sometimes she says things just right and I'm like 'yeah, I get you'. I just don't have a grip on her personality and it bothers me. 

 

I could certainly see that some of Cole's chat could be interpreted as bit more knowing than he lets on, but to me Cole seems to be completely guileless (at least pre-personal quest). Perhaps when he learns more about how people see him and becomes a bit more worldly he might be capable of it. I could see a mischievous streak emerging in a happier, more sure of himself Cole - particularly taking into account the 'joke' he makes at the end. That said, I now need to go replay his personal quest to see what he says when I don't pick the top option at dinner.

 

I had one thought about Cole - most of his dialogue with Solas refers to shows/films that feature angels. Is this perhaps a hint as to what Cole represents? He could certainly be a fallen angel on the redemption path. Also, do you think it's possible that Cole will feature in future games? I feel like there's so much more that can be done with him, but think that perhaps it will be more popular characters that will reappear...

[Korva]

With Inky, sometimes I'll pick a line and be like 'whoa, that's not what I meant' or 'where the hell did that come from?'. Sometimes the way she talks reminds me of a petulant 11 year old, particularly in her early chats with Solas. And yet sometimes she says things just right and I'm like 'yeah, I get you'. I just don't have a grip on her personality and it bothers me.

 

It sounds like DA2 was much better at telling players what "tone" a reply was going for? That is seriously missing from Inquisition, yes. I don't understand why they still have the "tone icon system" but only used it for a few replies in a few situation, when so many other replies would absolutely benefit from having a label to prevent "WTF did you say?!" moments. If we have to do guesswork and reloads to get the most appropriate reply for our characters, it is hard to roleplay.

 

I think it also doesn't help that the Inquisitor's dialog is just not very impressive or just well-written. I don't recall a single memorable line from my character, be it insightful or powerful or humorous. Sometimes it feels as if not a whole lot of effort went into our lines, which plays into the impression that conversations are all about the NPCs anyway, so what we say or how we say it doesn't matter all that much.

 

For example, when you agree with Solas in the rotunda scene during Cole's personal quest, the Inquisitor says "Cole is a demon", then pauses, and adds "or a spirit". Like it's an afterthought. And she says this in front of Cole, knowing fully well how much he fears becoming a demon, after he already pleaded with her to kill him if he ever turns. I was speechless at how utterly insensitive and ignorant that line sounds -- especially since agreeing with Solas is generally meant to promote the more-spirit path, which to me always implied making a special effort to understand and respect Cole's original nature and purpose and what distinguishes it from a demon's.

 

I could certainly see that some of Cole's chat could be interpreted as bit more knowing than he lets on, but to me Cole seems to be completely guileless (at least pre-personal quest).

 

I'm inclined to agree, and as I said in another post, I do think the "unintentionally funny" banters with Dorian and Blackwall are just that. On the other hand, I think he does know more than he lets on, and he can also be evasive and decide to keep secrets. (And on that note, it's really curious that there is no banter in which any of the other companions -- or the Inquisitor! -- gets to ask Cole why he never mentioned who Blackwall really is. Cassandra, for example, grows truly fond of Cole, but she also really dislikes lies, and I don't think the "you made a new you/you are Blackwall, you killed Rainier" answer would satisfy her.)

 

I had one thought about Cole - most of his dialogue with Solas refers to shows/films that feature angels. Is this perhaps a hint as to what Cole represents? He could certainly be a fallen angel on the redemption path.

 

I don't think that sort of thing exists in Thedas, but it does have some spirit/demon parallels. He is a spirit who once pretty much became a demon when he lost his way, and "I will not be that again" is one of the core issues of the character.

 

Also, do you think it's possible that Cole will feature in future games? I feel like there's so much more that can be done with him, but think that perhaps it will be more popular characters that will reappear...

 

Personally, I really hope we won't see him again ... unless we get to play as the Inquisitor again. As I said before, when I love a character, the context of their friendship with the protagonist is crucial to why I love them (despite the frustratingly one-sided nature of all these friendships) -- and I don't want to lose that bond in the usual casual way Bioware disregards platonic relationships.

[NKnight7]

I have a feeling that the next DLC for Inquisition will be a fairly large one, here's hoping that we get more interaction with all of our companions and our advisors too. I'm hoping it's similar to ME3 Citadel, in that we get new scenes with everyone and our love interests too hopefully. I always love listening to the conversations between the Inquisitior and Cole.

[FernRain]

There is an earlier (which makes sense) display of him grasping humor on the more-human path, too, though: during the dinner cutscene, when he goes into the difficult personal stuff from his past. If you don't pick the explicitly supportive top reply but the dismissive/jokey middle one, he interrupts you and finishes your sentence, basically doing an impression of the Inquisitor. Meaning he read the intent as humorous-to-lighten-the-mood instead of actually dismissive, and reponds in kind before calling your bluff. He sounds more confident doing it than his more-spirit-self does, too -- Cole's little quip at the banquet comes with an almost self-conscious little chuckle as he explains he wasn't serious, as if he isn't quite sure if he got it right.

 

Does anyone know how to trigger this scene? I had it on my first playthrough but haven't gotten it this time around. I've made him more human and he seems to like me enough (he says "it's good to spend time with you") .

[Korva]

I have a feeling that the next DLC for Inquisition will be a fairly large one, here's hoping that we get more interaction with all of our companions and our advisors too. I'm hoping it's similar to ME3 Citadel, in that we get new scenes with everyone and our love interests too hopefully. I always love listening to the conversations between the Inquisitior and Cole.

 

I really hope you are right, that we will get at least one companion-focused DLC. I want more Cole, his particular acts of kindness around Skyhold, his soothing voice and unique insights -- and some quiet time with him and the Inquisitor. Give me a fix for my compassion-spirit-withdrawal, Bioware.

 

Does anyone know how to trigger this scene? I had it on my first playthrough but haven't gotten it this time around. I've made him more human and he seems to like me enough (he says "it's good to spend time with you") .

 

Do you mean the dinner cutscene? If you have done his quest and his approval is that high, the "Do you want to go somewhere?" option should appear on the dialog wheel when you talk to him in Skyhold. I hope it's not bugged for you.

[Korva]

So, while a lot of people are screaming about Solas, I'll just bump this to express my hope that Cole will have something of a presence in what looks set to be the final DLC already. Not only was he extremely close to Solas, if "the whole world including my own hand wants me dead" is not a time for the companions to reach out to the Inquisitor in support and friendship before she most likely gets depowered and killed ... then what is? Come one writers, please, I really want a heart-to-heart with my most compassionate and cherished friend before that happens.

[Phalaenopsis]

Pity I'm out of likes for today Korva, I do wish the same. We actually see him in the trailer which reassures me... I'm really confident there will be a lot of story/companion/romance content in this expansion. We've begged for it so much, and it looks epic! I believe they've heard us at last.