415 réponses à ce sujet

[Korva]

Dragondreamer answered it in PM: it's indeed part of the conversation after meeting the exiled apprentice. I'd poke fun at the Augur for taking so long to notice Cole's unique nature, but then this is Cole. He might have gone unnoticed the whole time except to address people as needed, and the local spirits decided to play along and not reveal his presence because they knew he was not a threat to the hold.

 

He has some good lines in the DLC, as expected. I wouldn't call JoH all that good overall, but it was almost nostalgic to play again for a bit, and the look at Avvar culture and some of the companion comments, especially Cole's, were the best parts. (And I like the armor schematics from the final war table mission. Easily the best heavy armor skin in the game, IMO. With the golden nug, that will allow for a pretty sweet look from the start if I do a replay.)

 

Re: Grantchester -- so he plays a more progressive character? Good, I imagine it would be weird as hell to hear echoes of our soft-spoken and most compassionate friend in an intolerant character or a flat-out villain.

[Phalaenopsis]

Re: Grantchester -- so he plays a more progressive character? Good, I imagine it would be weird as hell to hear echoes of our soft-spoken and most compassionate friend in an intolerant character or a flat-out villain.

He actually plays a rapist and murderer in the "Happy Valley" series. Creepy!

[Korva]

Did you catch the part where the first Inquisitor also had a spirit companion? I wonder who it was.

 

Yes, and I was waiting for someone to comment on it, especially Cole. As it is, it felt like that line was just randomly thrown in to make Ameridan "cooler", not for the spirit's own sake as a character worth mentioning and giving some detail to like the mortal companions were. If memory serves, it was implied that the spirit was locked in with Ameridan, so at least a few parting words of thanks for its friendship and help sustaining the ritual all these years would have been good ... and another opening for Cole to comment on.

 

He actually plays a rapist and murderer in the "Happy Valley" series. Creepy!

 

Yikes.

 

[Amne YA]

one thing that always made me angry  is why we can't ask  our freinds what do they want .   why we make choice for them . for the inquisition okey  cause  i'm  the inquisitor but  for others ?really ?   like   why  cole  can't tell what do he want to be and  i help  him be what he want . :/  i always  feel like i'm  changing him to what i want  and not what he want . that make me sad :/  
and also   the fact that the AI   make  the DW  rogue so shity that every one  made  cole  an archer  .  it  make  his dialogue  akward . * talking about stabing and  daggers  while  having a  bow * 
 

[Korva]

one thing that always made me angry  is why we can't ask  our freinds what do they want .   why we make choice for them . for the inquisition okey  cause  i'm  the inquisitor but  for others ?really ?   like   why  cole  can't tell what do he want to be and  i help  him be what he want . :/  i always  feel like i'm  changing him to what i want  and not what he want . that make me sad :/

 

Many agree with you there. The argument between Varric and Solas and the way we make the choice behind Cole's back feels so disrepectful of him as an individual. It also breaks the tense and urgent "flow" of the scene -- he is too angry and vengeful to just twiddle his thumbs while we talk about him as if he wasn't even there. All this makes it one of several scenes I have long wanted to try writing my own modified version of, if I was more confident.

 

and also   the fact that the AI   make  the DW  rogue so shity that every one  made  cole  an archer  .  it  make  his dialogue  akward . * talking about stabing and  daggers  while  having a  bow *

 

I hear you. Making him an archer feels very much out of character for him, but leaving him as a dual daggers requires masterwork gear and babysitting if you don't want to have to scrape him off the floor all the time. The combat in this game is too hectic to micromanage everything, yet the AI is too bad to put people on autopilot. That is especially noticeable with melee DPS characters -- it never makes them flank, and when I move Cole behind the enemy, he's invariably back to stabbing the enemy in the face again a few seconds later. The whole combat system really needs to be improved a lot for the next game.

 

I know! They made comments about the dwarf and Templar who didn't get along (Cass and Varric, and I think even Dorian commented on that). Possibly they were trying to add more parallels between him and your Inquisitor.

 

Yes, that felt rather forced to me and I don't play an elf mage so it's not even as in-your-face as it is then.

 

Though Cassandra's snark about a dwarf getting on someone's nerves did made me snicker.

[Sports72Xtrm]

So human Cole's been revealed in Trespasser and it's very interesting!

So Cole has a lady friend in Maryden Halewell hmm.. lol

[flyermaria]

About human!Cole in Trespasser:

 

Spoiler

 

I am so delighted for him! Cole and Maryden do make a cute couple.

 

However, I am very disappointed that we can't have a proper conversation with Cole, like we can with the other companions. His comments about the lore are really interesting, yes, but it made me feel distant from my most favorite character.

I'm also kinda sad because I shipped my inquisitor with him, but...what can you do?

 

Cole for romance option 2k17! #GiveUsTheC

[flyermaria]

Spoiler

A lot of people who wanted to romance him were told it was wrong because of what Gaider said about him being a child, but Weekes didn't agree it seems and made him romantic and rather forward. I think to please fans who wanted a romance he should have been able to be flirted with if the Inquisitor was single and if take, then he had Maryden. Telling people it would never happen then making it happen is really upsetting many shippers.

 

Spoiler

I know I would have loved a flirt option with him, but at the same time, I would have felt short-changed because a dlc romance is not a full romance.  I am extremely grateful that his relationship is canon, though - now there is no denying that at least in the writers' eyes, he is an adult who is able to consent.

[redbowlingball]

I was hugely disappointed by Cole in Trespasser

 

I got DAI a week before my dad died last year. It was a hugely anticipated game on my part and I didn't know how to outwardly grieve so I just kind of got lost in it. Cole and Solas in particular got me through some very hard times (and sometimes carried me through them) and it's kind of melded onto my brain in a weird way because of that. Maybe that's why I need to have this little rant and also why maybe I take this more seriously than I should. But I've invested time and emotion into this, dammit. I get to feel my feels, ok?

 

Disclaimer: I don't usually complain about this stuff. I really appreciate the work that goes into these games and I'm generally always happy with whatever the developers pull off. I've adored all three games (and the books and everything else) for lots of different reasons...but this just really kicked me in the stomach and I need to get it written down.

 

Spoiler

 

So, the whole Maryden thing blindsided me and I had to put my controller down for a bit to process it. At first I wasn't happy - Cole deserves better IMO - but I calmed down after a bit. In a way I guess it makes sense, though I would have appreciated the option for the Inquisitor to fill that role if that's the way it had to be. After all, she was the one who took him in, helped him, loved him and wanted him around. But whatever, maybe the devs thought it would be weird and maybe it would have been. But then I realised that Cole, my Inquisitors best friend in all the world, had nothing to say to her. Then I just got sad. The entire cutscene was short overall, and was basically Cole ignoring the Inquisitor and getting his girlfriends attention.

 

Later in the DLC, when I was chatting to people, every single companion had a dialogue wheel with at least one or two options (even Sera, whose personal quest my Inquisitor had refused to do) but Cole didn't even have a dialogue wheel. 

 

While exploring the DLC all my companions had things to say about what was happening and got at least 2 options to trigger dialogue while in the field. I got just one with Cole and it was a short one-liner. When Cole had his one bit of ambient dialogue, it was about bringing a rock back for his girlfriend.

 

All my companions had something to say or give to my Inquisitor - gifts, words of thanks, friendship, support, regret at leaving and so on. There was nothing from Cole. 

 

I just can't believe it. All the time my Inquisitor spent with Cole, learning about him, standing up for him, helping people and helping him to help people and there's nothing to acknowledge it in the epilogue?

 

Cole seriously affected me in the real world. He really brought home how important it is to help people in a very tangible way and I have noticed a significant difference in my behaviour and thoughts since I started playing Inquisition. I thought he was the most wonderful character I've ever met in a fictional world and he made me exquisitely depressed by highlighting how rare people like him actually are. Now I feel like that experience has been cheapened significantly. Either folk at Bioware decided that nobody likes Cole so they weren't going to bother with him at all, or they're trying to say something about human Cole - perhaps that he becomes selfish or ignorant to how he treats his friends? I'd honestly prefer the former, the latter makes me feel terrible (though from what I can see, spirit Cole is not much better in terms of content).

 

I just don't get it. I'm so sad. And I'm even sadder at the fact that this has seriously marred my enjoyment of the DLC. Everything else was great, amazing really, but it just couldn't distract me from this disappointment. Cole being used as an example several times in DLC promotion maybe got my hopes too high, but even without that, the Cole content in comparison to everyone else is just breathtakingly lacklustre. 

 

Last night I dreamt my Lavellan committed suicide My poor Lavellan. Her companions and advisors all go off to do their own thing and she's lost her hand and her Inquisition. Her lover is trying to indirectly kill her and everything she knows. The cherry on top is that her best friend has basically dumped her for someone else. She seemed determined at the end but I don't know if realistically she'll be able to mentally overcome all of that. 

 

Someone cheer me up? Is spirit Cole better? Does he have anything to say? I'm in such a terrible funk right now and have been since I finished the DLC last night. 

 

 

[Korva]

I was hugely disappointed by Cole in Trespasser

 

I got DAI a week before my dad died last year. It was a hugely anticipated game on my part and I didn't know how to outwardly grieve so I just kind of got lost in it. Cole and Solas in particular got me through some very hard times (and sometimes carried me through them) and it's kind of melded onto my brain in a weird way because of that. Maybe that's why I need to have this little rant and also why maybe I take this more seriously than I should. But I've invested time and emotion into this, dammit. I get to feel my feels, ok?

 

Hey. You have nothing to "apologize" for. Anyone who tries to tell you that it's "just a game"? They can shove that up their arse and rotate. People find comfort and meaning and inspiration in any number of things. Is it possible to get too attached? Sure. But that can happen with anything or anyone. There are a lot worse things to find comfort in than a beautifully written and voice-acted video game character who literally embodies compassion. If I was a writer, I would consider a reaction like yours a great compliment, though I'd be sorry (as I am) for your loss.

 

Spoiler

I know exactly what you mean. In a way, I am grateful to you for posting this, because it makes me feel less alone. I'm ... harder to please and kind of jaded, so I wondered if it was just me. I semi-spoilered myself on a few things that I knew were crucial to whether or not I'd find the DLC worth buying, and when the answer was "no, likely not" I just watched streams and videos with a special eye out for Cole. It's not an exaggeration to say that what they did with him was a shock. Everyone else gets two or three proper conversations, some quite touching and personal ... Cole gets only one, which is completely impersonal to boot and basically does not have the Inquisitor interact with him at all. There is nothing there, no connection, no affection, no happiness to see each other, no bonding, no sign of mutual understanding. They might as well be complete strangers.

 

I just don't understand it. It's basically a case study both on "how NOT to write a reunion" and on my recurring criticism with certain tendencies in the way Bioware handles PC/NPC interactions. More than that, it hurts. It's basically the totally botched ending of the post-Temple of Mythal cutscene all over again, except dragged out over the whole DLC. And the contrast to how everyone else was handled only makes it hurt more.

 

I specifically looked for a stream with more-spirit-Cole since that is my canon, and I can say: no, he is not handled any better. He does not have more to say to the Inquisitor. As a party member, he comments quite a bit on what is going on, and some of these comments are as good as always so it's not as if Weekes suddenly forgot how to write him. He had a moment of happiness when he realized that the Veil is "fake" ... then he sighed and said Solas understands. Maybe it was just my sadness and disappointment colouring my impression, but that sounded as if he doesn't expect anyone else to understand, as if everyone else regarded him as a mistake that does not belong ... despite the fact that to me, the spirit-path has always been about challenging myself to learn to understand him as much as possible and to show him that he does belong, that he is not only accepted but cherished, that being different from mortals does not make him less of a person in my eyes.

 

I was hoping that the DLC would reflect that somehow, as the dinner cutscene did. But there is nothing. What could and should have been a very special bond with a truly unique being was ignored altogether. And I just don't understand it.

 

Personal -- and warning: critical -- opinion on what they did with more-human Cole:

Spoiler

Asexuality erasure via obligatory (hetero)sexuality not only towards a character who had become something of a hopeful figure of all-too-rare identification for some aces including myself, but also from him? That was another ugly punch in the guts. The base game has some of the same via Blackwall and Bull, but this really drives it home.

[redbowlingball]

Hey. You have nothing to "apologize" for. Anyone who tries to tell you that it's "just a game"? They can shove that up their arse and rotate. People find comfort and meaning and inspiration in any number of things. Is it possible to get too attached? Sure. But that can happen with anything or anyone. There are a lot worse things to find comfort in than a beautifully written and voice-acted character video game character who literally embodies compassion. If I was a writer, I would consider a reaction like yours a great compliment, though I'd be sorry (as I am) for your loss.

 

 

Thank you. I needed to hear that. My husband has thankfully been quite understanding (a blessing since my mood is seriously not good just now as a result of this stuff) but I don't think he quite gets it. 

 

 

Spoiler

I know exactly what you mean. In a way, I am grateful to you for posting this, because it makes me feel less alone. I'm ... harder to please and kind of jaded, so I wondered if it was just me. I semi-spoilered myself on a few things that I knew were crucial to whether or not I'd find the DLC worth buying, and when the answer was "no, likely not" I just watched streams and videos with a special eye out for Cole. It's not an exaggeration to say that what they did with him was a shock. Everyone else gets two or three proper conversations, some quite touching and personal ... Cole gets only one, which is completely impersonal to boot and basically does not have the Inquisitor interact with him at all. There is nothing there, no connection, no affection, no happiness to see each other, no bonding, no sign of mutual understanding. They might as well be complete strangers.

 

I just don't understand it. It's basically a case study both on "how NOT to write a reunion" and on my recurring criticism with certain tendencies in the way Bioware handles PC/NPC interactions. More than that, it hurts. It's basically the totally botched ending of the post-Temple of Mythal cutscene all over again, except dragged out over the whole DLC. And the contrast to how everyone else was handled only makes it hurt more.

 

I specifically looked for a stream with more-spirit-Cole since that is my canon, and I can say: no, he is not handled any better. He does not have more to say to the Inquisitor. As a party member, he comments quite a bit on what is going on, and some of these comments are as good as always so it's not as if Weekes suddenly forgot how to write him. He had a moment of happiness when he realized that the Veil is "fake" ... then he sighed and said Solas understands. Maybe it was just my sadness and disappointment colouring my impression, but that sounded as if he doesn't expect anyone else to understand, as if everyone else regarded him as a mistake that does not belong ... despite the fact that to me, the spirit-path has always been about challenging myself to learn to understand him as much as possible and to show him that he does belong, that he is not only accepted but cherished, that being different from mortals does not make him less of a person in my eyes.

 

I was hoping that the DLC would reflect that somehow, as the dinner cutscene did. But there is nothing. What could and should have been a very special bond with a truly unique being was ignored altogether. And I just don't understand it.

 

Spoiler

Oh well Korva, maybe we can be alone together. I feel like everyone else got their weddings and dogs and running off into the sunset (for the most part, with the right choices, these results are mostly available) and don't care at all about the end result for the scruffy scarecrow who they couldn't romance. And unfortunately, based on Trespasser, I don't think he will be back (at least as a human). It's going to make replaying the game very hard, on top of the whole Solas thing, to know that ultimately Cole doesn't respond to the friendship offered him. I can headcanon that it's to do with budget, time restraints, VA availability etc and that Cole actually loves my Inquisitor, but it will be hard not to think of this every time he tells Lavellan 'I'm glad you came to see me'

 

[redbowlingball]

I think spirit Cole is the better choice for the DLC despite not having a lot of interaction. 

 

Spoiler

He at least brings up banter near the end in which the Inquisitor can tell everyone good bye because she thinks she's dying, and his care for Solas is strong and matches well with the Inquisitor's feelings. He also talks to the Inquisitor about her hand too because he can sense the pain and says he's sorry that the end is coming for her and he can't help.

 

Human Cole seems focused on his gf and leaves with her (this is a true human reaction when you are in love for the first time. Even your own family and friends take a back seat to the gf), but spirit Cole will come back if needed.

 

Spoiler

 

This does seem to be the case, which upsets me. I made Cole a human for a lot of very thoroughly thought out reasons (oh how I agonised) and I appreciated that the devs said there was no 'right' path for him, but now it seems like there is, at least slightly. I don't want to have to go against my canon in order to just get some feeling that Cole actually gives a crap in the end.

 

 

Spoiler

Your lover does watch over you in dreams at the end, so I thought that was sweet. He may be struggling with his plans and his beliefs, but he is always there like a protector. Solas needs our help and we need to prove him wrong about what he wants, and he himself wants us to prove him wrong. He says so in the friendship dialogue.

 

Spoiler

I actually love how the thing with Solas played out, but it's still achingly sad. It's just difficult to play the game through again (especially near the beginning when we aren't 'real' to him) knowing that he plans to kill us all. However, I can deal with that. It's that knowing Cole will basically abandon us in the end without a backwards glance is going to make it almost impossible to work on building a relationship with him. Which makes me sad, cause I love his little face and will miss him terribly. Basically, replays are going to suck.

[Korva]

My own opinions on the more-human path aside, I really don't like seeing people feel as if they have to abandon that choice just for the vague hope of salvaging something for the future. Due to the bias against the more-spirit path from apparently a lot of the community and due to that completely messed-up post-Mythal cutscene, I know what it feels like to have your own choice apparently "invalidated". I say stick to what you love. Bioware has a crappy track record for not respecting friendships or allowing for enduring platonic bonds overall, and while that always hurts the most with the characters I love the most, nothing in set in stone -- epilogue sliders have been shown to not matter much quite frequently.

 

(Really, would it have been so hard to add a line or two about, depending on the character's circumstances, continuing to work together or at least stay in touch to all the epilogues and to final in-game conversations, if you have high approval with the character in question? What they did with Dorian in that regard is perfect.)

 

For what it's worth, I'm not optimistic about the more-spirit epilogue either. The character is just a complete trainwreck in this DLC.

 

Spoiler

He at least brings up banter near the end in which the Inquisitor can tell everyone good bye because she thinks she's dying.

 

Do you have quotes or screenshots? I never saw that in the streams and videos I watched. I hope it's not character-dependant ... it's a much-needed conversation that should happen regardless of party composition.

 

Thank you. I needed to hear that. My husband has thankfully been quite understanding (a blessing since my mood is seriously not good just now as a result of this stuff) but I don't think he quite gets it. 

 

I'm glad it helped. Being affected by a game is something that a lot of people don't get, but that doesn't make it wrong or weird. Stories are powerful.

 

Spoiler

It's going to make replaying the game very hard, on top of the whole Solas thing, to know that ultimately Cole doesn't respond to the friendship offered him. I can headcanon that it's to do with budget, time restraints, VA availability etc and that Cole actually loves my Inquisitor, but it will be hard not to think of this every time he tells Lavellan 'I'm glad you came to see me'

 

Yes, this put damper on my desire to replay, too. Or write about it, or think much about it for now. Maybe letting the worst of the first heavy disappointment fade by focusing on other things, and then deliberately reminding myself of what I love about it and headcanon around that will help. I'm used to doing that, because the disregard for friendship is noting new ... but I admit this hurts more than usual because basegame Cole is such a fantastic character with so much potential.

[Korva]

Thank you. Very short, but ... very touching, too. It's too damn rare to see NPCs show some concern and care for the protagonist, so this is very welcome and needed. And she had what would have been my team, too. That is Cole, damnit! Where is that Cole in the Winter Palace conversations, Mr. Weekes? And Cassandra and Dorian really seem to be the best in the DLC. Cass was always awesome of course, but Dorian really comes into his own as a friend here. One of the few things I liked was seeing her and Leliana and the Inquisitor together making plans in the very end. It brings the game full circle right back to that cell under the Chantry and then to the proclamation of the Inquisition. Poignant.