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[Korva]

This brief banter better not require a specific party composition. Any companion could trigger it, because the Inquisitor's condition is hard to miss.

 

I think there is an angle for both aspects of Cole. Solas loves Cole no matter what. If Cole was more human, that could be another strong argument against Solas' plans in the end. Of course, Solas might try to hope that there is enough of Compassion left to survive what is coming, and otherwise mourn him as another he could not save ... but a more-human Cole would still be a big weight on the scales in favor of saving the world. And I would seriously call complete BS on a more-human-Cole who does not care for either the Inquisitor or Solas anymore. That would be a first-class writing failure. He still wants to help people, from what I have seen. (Does he still read/hear/feel emotions to some degree? I'd really be sad if he lost that completely.)

 

Heh, I never thought I'd argue for the more-human path. But I'm not so much doing that as arguing for why you shouldn't have to fear that you are losing him. Neither path should blatantly be regarded as The One True Way ... or change the character so much as to make him unrecognizable. Cole's quest is not remotely like the situation with Iron Bull, where sacrificing the Chargers essentially hands him to his handlers on a silver platter. The outcome of that choice is appropriate and predictable, IMO. Making Cole, either Cole, stop caring for his friends would be the complete opposite.

 

Here's the thing: a lot of people in the fandom are really against the more-spirit path, as I said. I've seen them jump on every imaginable justification for why it's bad, evil, wrong, abusive. I've seen them insist that this Cole is now a non-entity, a soulless automaton who does not actually care about anyone anymore. I've seem them act as if everything interesting, worthwhile or relatable in this character depends entirely on him being human, and that the more-spirit path destroys all of that, all of him, completely.

 

It bloody hurts to see what has meant so much to me not only utterly disregarded but twisted and crapped so viciously. It's also spiteful nonsense ... but that never silenced my fear that the writers may decide to prove these people right, because humanocentrism, that "different is wrong" equation, is such an easy trap to fall into. I know the fear of losing him. I also know how much these people would gloat if that was to happen, and how that would make it even worse. And regardless of different opinions on what is best for him, I don't want to see you folks hurt like that any more than I want to be. I would hate to be "proven right" at the cost of making you "wrong". There was never supposed to be a right and a wrong in this, if the choice is made with thoughtful care and true support.

 

Hold on to what you love about this character.

[Korva]

This DLC is apparently quite buggy, and this appears to be another example. Here is a thread about people not getting the goodbyes. Apparently the streamer you linked to was among the lucky folks for whom this did trigger.

[Korva]

Here's some linked fanart for happiness.

 

I love the expression on his face, here:

Spoiler

 

A really good likeness, as far as this non-artist can tell:

Spoiler

 

Two sides of the same coin:

Spoiler

 

Another, more simple but I like it anyway with halos and contrasting colours:

Spoiler

[Pasta]

I know posting in here would be like jumping to a pit of flames, but I just got to let this out. The past few days have been utterly horrible for me. Real horrible. And I feel sorry for my fellow fans who felt the same way. Fortunately this Spirit of Compassion have compassionate, wonderful fans that console and empower each other. I wouldn't have made it today if it weren't for them.

 

Spoiler

I am one of the minority of this fandom called the Colemancers. We dream of a romance arc with him in the future and he means so much to us, he is very close to our hearts. You have the permission to call me deranged for being hurt about his Human storyline. But I have to let this out to combat my depression.

 

Me and the others were very excited for Trespasser. Then we see the scene. Needless to say it plunged some of us to a serious state of depression and as badly hurt as we are, we tried to heal each other. We wanted to experience a romance arc for him, and not this. I'm sorry, if this is the writer's answer for him as future LI, then it's a very... heartbreaking answer. And we can't do anything about it, our cries were hidden beneath the praises this DLC gets and it hurts more. This is a good DLC yes, but this one thing ruined it all for me.

 

He is a very, very well made character. I enjoy reading theories and speculations about the lore and it shows how much love BW has put in this game. We feel the same way. We love him too much that it breaks us to see him just... so suddenly taken away. I know we should be happy for him, but we can't pretend to not be hurting about this. Ever since the game's release we have fallen for him, it was a very sweet year and he fills the spot in my heart for someone who will help no matter who I am and what deepest secrets I kept hidden. He means so much to me. But then our hopes are crushed.

 

It's quite out-of-character in my opinion. He leaves with a bard knowing that the world might be destroyed and innocents might be killed? I thought from Asunder he learned about that already. Lambert is somewhat, slightly similar to Solas and since the Cole we knew cared about him, why not help us save Solas??? Save the world???

 

Damn it, he's a fantastic character with so many potential and they chose to break our hearts... and not let us experience his growth or his romance arc. I've cried enough about this, I've had my anxiety attacks me and the depression too. It hurts like hell... I can think of so many, many, many, other story for him. I would take him as a non-LI if it means that ending / story can be changed. I'd do anything for it.. even if the patch or a mini-DLC that requires purchasing, I'll give them my money!

 

STORY.

1.  He discovers a talent. This is a chance for a comedic scene. Maybe he's talented in knitting. Maybe he's a natural cook even though he didn't quite like eating, but people loved his food and he loves it bc it heals people. Or maybe write novels or poetry voluntarily for people and have Varric tries to persuade him to sell them? Endless possibilities for talents, endless.

 

2. Keep the romantic storyline as a clue for future games. He start gathering popularity with people since they now remember him, and he hangs out with his new friends. Friendship is a more preferable "growth" for me. Maybe some of his friends tried to hook him up with girls but he hasn't been interested. He would definitely be ready for a relationship in the future.

 

3. Rhys & Evangeline. Now, I know they can possibly die if we don't do the quest, but this is the ending that I want the most for him. At least... if we don't get the privilege to experience how much he has grown, Rhys & Eva deserved it. They could reconcile. It could be about his effort to track down the couple, to help them. Even better if Rhys & Eva makes an appearance in the DLC. Imagine how they'd look like in Frostbite... TAKE MY MONEY.

 

4. Negativity. Remember "I want to hit people a lot now"? This is a darker storyline for him, but don't necessarily make the human path the worst option for him. It could be about him discovering how to control this negativity by the help of friends and staying true to his Compassionate personality. On a comedic note, it could be about him almost losing his cool then tries to keep being reasonable. He could also develop some stubbornness or disappointment. Human emotions! Flaws! Sigh.

 

5. The real, previous Cole. Maybe the Mage!Cole have dreams and aspirations? Could be about him trying to fulfill the late Cole's ambition. The scene could be about him paying tribute to the late Cole. Maybe he got a pet Bunny. Maybe he starts rescuing animals bc they also feel pain and it's what the late Cole aspires to. It reminds him of Bunny.

 

6. Human perspective. Him telling us the nature of humans, and basically more in-depth report on his growth. How becoming a human himself have taught him a different way to deal with them. Probably learning about privacy, and this leads him to think of other ways to help while respecting their privacy. The new ways can be very creative and intuitive.

 

As for the ending. I would like him to stay with the Inquisitor and help with Solas, if all of the above isn't the story.

 

I don't mind people calling me crazy, butthurt, unhealthy because maybe I deserved it. It's my fault for being too attached to a fictional character. Even though he's fictional, this feeling is real. The hurt is real. I know changing the story would never happen... I don't know what else to do. I feel like he's taken away from me. I'm sorry.

 

I'm so sorry.

[Korva]

(Bloody great, more vicious attacks on more-spirit-Cole and by extension the people who make that choice, in that other thread about his sole cutscene. I'm so worn out by it, especally so shortly after Trespasser's issues.)

 

@Pasta: We look at Cole from totally opposite angles, but I very much understand the feeling of having lost something extremely special and cherished ... and the shock, grief and even anger that results from it. I've got my own mental health issues, and I'll admit they flared up over Trespasser because of how much of a worst-case scenario it is for me in some deeply personal ways -- and Cole's treatment is right up there among the worst aspects of it.

 

The difference in the amount of content and the "feel" of what little is there is so stark when you compare it to what the other NPCs got. Combined with the complete lack of ... "emotional presence and emotional availability" (*) for the Inquisitor, if you will, it gives the impression that there is no bond between them at all, until the extremely brief farewell. It's really, really ugly for those of us for whom he was the most meaningful and cherished character in the base game, regardless of which path he ended up taking on his quest. I just can't fathom why he -- and the friendship between him and the Inquisitor -- was so utterly, specifically disregarded. Or rather, I have my own burgeoning fears about it, but I'm too tired to post them today.

 

(*) I mean in the sense of "you're my friend and you're important to me" -- or, as his high-approval greetings from the base game said: "I'm glad you came to talk to me" / "It's good to spend time with you."

 

So I just want to say, for now, that all differences in what we want for/from this character aside, I definitely "grieve" with you and don't think you're "deranged". As I said in my reply to redbowlingball, stories are powerful. The good ones can become part of us, and when we feel as if the writers are ripping them out of our hands and hearts and saying "you know, there actually isn't a place for you in this" ... of course it hurts. I'm jaded from having felt that a lot of times before, but I still fell into the "trap" again because despite the game's many flaws, it has aspects of brilliance, too. And Cole was maybe the brightest of all.

 

The way the DLC ends is such a clusterf*ck. The impossible attempt to combine a generic "it's all over now and no one has any reason to stay with you anymore" ending with the presence of a threat greater than Corypheus ever was and much more personal to boot is just a gigantic "divide by zero" pile of cognitive dissonance and pure WTF.

Modifié par Korva, 15 septembre 2015 - 10:55 .

[BabyFratelli]

 He still wants to help people, from what I have seen. (Does he still read/hear/feel emotions to some degree? I'd really be sad if he lost that completely.)

 

It's funny reading your comments, because I agree with you almost entirely about everything, the only difference is that I personally prefer Human!Cole, ha.

 

Anyway, in response to this, I've played with both Human!Cole and Spirit!Cole and honestly at the end of the day aren't too different, though I do say that hesitantly. The main difference I perceived was in Cole's capacity to experience emotions towards the bonds he's made. That's not to say as a spirit he doesn't form or care about these bonds, only that as a human he is able to associate better, positively and negatively, meaning that his emotions become more complex and less black and white than Spirit!Cole, who is mostly: Does this person help people? Then yes, they're good, I like them. Does this person hurt others? Then that's bad, I don't like them.

 

HumanCole made around the same amount of insights as SpiritCole did, but there were some things lacking. I believe this is simply because now that he has his own mixed emotions, he finds it harder to separate them from the one's he gets from other people/places. The main thing that stood out to be, however, is he was less likely to notice/be sensitive to the presence of spirits. Regardless, the ability is still there, the depth of it and his reaction to it is more what's changed.

[ComedicSociopathy]

So, if anyone wanted to know what Cole looks like as a girl...

 

Here you go. 

[Korva]

Sorry for the late reply, and good to see more discussion here. The thread had grown quite dead again.

 

It's funny reading your comments, because I agree with you almost entirely about everything, the only difference is that I personally prefer Human!Cole, ha.

 

I'm glad to hear it, because Cole is Cole, and there shouldn't be a "war" between people who prefer different sides of him when instead we could join in appreciation of all that makes him great. Especially given his compassionate nature. Someone who grasps at any chance to disparage the path they don't prefer and the people who do ... would kind of miss the whole point of him, I think.

 

Anyway, in response to this, I've played with both Human!Cole and Spirit!Cole and honestly at the end of the day aren't too different, though I do say that hesitantly.

 

I hope they will always noticeably be the same person at the core, even though they do some things differenty. Like more-human Cole being harsh with broody Blackwall who prodded the still-raw pain and anger issue over the templar -- both "sides" of Cole know that Blackwall has truly changed and fully support/encourage him, but this was more than this Cole could handle at that time. And while it made me wince a bit to hear it in a banter video, it's important for this Cole to be able to "protect" himself in such a manner when needed ... just as it's good for more-spirit Cole to be aware of things that could hurt him, i.e. what he calls "shackles".

 

The main difference I perceived was in Cole's capacity to experience emotions towards the bonds he's made. That's not to say as a spirit he doesn't form or care about these bonds, only that as a human he is able to associate better, positively and negatively, meaning that his emotions become more complex and less black and white than Spirit!Cole, who is mostly: Does this person help people? Then yes, they're good, I like them. Does this person hurt others? Then that's bad, I don't like them.

 

I think that's a little simplistic, but I agree that his emotions are more complex overall, less overwhelmingly coloured by raw compassion, when he becomes more human and as a result needs to actively focus more on his old gifts to use them. I'm glad that they endure, even if they're dulled.

[Korva]

Wow... after beating Trespasser all I can say is... Spirit Cole KNEW EVERYTHING! Solas didn't make him forget his identity, just how to find his location. He tells us Solas is close, but he doesn't want him to follow and near the end he basically reveals him before Solas does. That is one vital character to have in Trespasser! He has so much banter!

 

Yes, and that really worries me. As I said in a previous post, I have some painful concerns over the way he was handled and why. Heavy spoilers ahead, obviously. Here is what I wrote in the big "Solas must die" thread regarding taking comfort in the fact that Cole still cares for Solas, spoilered for length:

 

Spoiler

See, that's what I held on to when I feared for the worst after that post-credits revelation cutscene and after Solas messing with Cole's mind. Turns out it's a lot worse than what I feared, and now I'm concerned that Cole -- who already had by far the least content in Trespasser for no explicable reason -- is going to be used as less of a character in his own right and more of an author's mouthpiece to push a future redemption arc. The bond between Solas and Cole was real, definitely more real than Solas' pretend-friendships with the rest of the Inquisition. But the writers can't keep stretching that bond without freely acknowledging two things: 1) the sheer scale of the horror that Solas is planning and has always been planning, and 2) the fact that Cole is not a wet blanket who doesn't know where to draw the line. All the references to the good Solas did in the distant past and how sad he is and how he doesn't really want to hurt people mean jack sh*t when Solas IS in fact hurting people and shows no inclination to stop.

 

On the more-spirit path, Cole explictly speaks about his feelings about fighting and killing alongside us: it's hard for him because people could change if they wanted to ... but if they choose to hurt others, they must be stopped. How does this not apply to Solas as well? Obviously, at this point Solas is likely beyond any physical harm that even a super-fast, super-deadly killer like Cole could inflict. It might well be that any future confrontation with Solas will never be a generic bossfight (in fact, I'd welcome that). Still, there are other ways of opposing Solas' atrocious plans, and then writers need to show Cole doing that. It's one thing to have Compassion incarnate point out that Solas is hurting -- that's fine, of course Cole feels it, of course he'd rather heal it. But Solas' pain isn't the only pain, nor does it override the pain of his many past and intended future victims, even if they are "collateral damage" instead of targets of deliberate malice. If they continue to only use Cole to push the "poor sad Solas" angle, it'll break the character ... and he deserves better than that.

 

Again: I WISH I could see a redemptive angle in all this. I really do, or all this wouldn't worry and upset me as much it does. However, the scale of what Solas is doing and already has done is something that even my favourite Bioware companion (Cole) can't balance anymore.

 

In short, while Cole is Compassion and is Solas' friend, the fact remains that he also knows where to draw the line when those who could change nonetheless choose to hurt others -- and that needs to be acknowledged in the context of how utterly off the charts Solas' plans are. So far, it hasn't been, and I fear what that means for this character, especially in combination with his lack of (other, non-Solas) content in Trespasser. I would hate to see the integrity and separate identity of this wonderful character sacrificed in the name of pushing the author's plan for a possible redemption arc. That would be like all those bad fanfics in which Cole is not a person in his own right but merely the writer's mouthpiece for pushing their "OTP" at each other. (Without any gratitude on their part of course, because he doesn't matter. What matters is only the "OTP" getting on with teh seks already.)

 

More than that, the fact that Cole knew about Solas (as the writers confirmed even pre-Trespasser) begs the question of whether he also knew of the extent of Solas' plans as well as what he has already done. And if the answer is yes ... what does that say about Cole? All aspects of Cole, mind, not just the more-spirit version.

 

This is not remotely like him keeping Blackwall's secret. Blackwall is a truly repentant and changed man, flawed though his quest for atonement was until he chose to sacrifice himself to save Mornay. He is not a threat to innocent people anymore, on the contrary, he routinely puts himself in situations where he risks his life for them, and is willing to die to make a difference for them. None of this applies to Solas, who has a hidden agenda to destroy the world that he never abandoned. He didn't even view the people around him as people for a long time, and even now they remain regrettable but nevertheless wholly acceptable collateral damage.

 

If Cole knew everything and never breathed a word of it ... that is at best a horrible and utter lapse in judgement and at worst a deliberate betrayal of everyone else's trust. More-human, more-spirit, doesn't matter, either way he has the tools to draw a line but didn't. Why?

 

I know his insights are neither infallible nor immediate. I imagine it's a bit like doing a really complex puzzle where most of the pieces start off more or less well-hidden and he has no picture of the whole thing to guide him in putting it all together. I also know Solas can keep things hidden from him or shut them away in mid-"reading". So just how much did Cole know of his plans, and what exactly did Solas make him forget? I heard Weekes replies on Twitter sometimes, but I don't use that, so if anyone has insights there I'd be grateful.

 

There is a lot that is missing in Trespasser, from what I have seen, but perhaps the worst omission is that we can't talk about Solas' reveal with the companions ... especially with Cole. We need answers from him. This cannot be left open to interpretation until the next game or even forever. I care for Cole more than for any other character Bioware has ever written, but this conversation we were not allowed to have could completely break my ability to trust him. Trespasser soured so much of what I loved about Inquisition. I'm scared of it tainting my love for Cole as well. That is the worst-case scenario of the worst-case scenario and I really don't know what to make of this. If anyone knows more or can see any silver lining in this ... help?

[Korva]

I liked that observation about the Veil being fake -- he was so happy, and he deserves that happiness more than just about anyone. But the combination of the writers not allowing him to acknowledge that Solas is hurting people, of the way he says "Solas understands" as if only Solas understands him (true, we can't come close, but trying our best to understand and respect him is what the spirit-path has always been about for me), of knowing that Cole knew but being unable to talk to him about it, of having no personal friendship-content with him at all ...

 

... it all makes it sound as if only Solas matters, as if his pain is the only one that matters, much like every purpose or duty that the Inquisition might have taken up is ignored in order to make it all about stopping Solas now. And that isn't right. That isn't Cole. That is sacrificing a beautiful, complex, bittersweet but hopeful character to club us over the head with repeated reminders that Solas isn't supposed to be all evil. And that is bullsh*t. We need SOLAS to show us that, to prove that there may yet be hope for him, not an author's mouthpiece to prod us into feeling bad for the character who's trying to destroy our world.

 

I absolutely don't begrudge Cole his happiness at knowing he is not a "wrong thing", in fact I share it, though I wish we could have said something then and assured him that of course he isn't. I don't blame him for missing Solas, or for wanting to help Solas if at all possible. I wish he could live in a world that is kinder and more open to his kind, a world where spirits are accepted as people and cherished for what they can offer mortals who share their lives with them ... part of my headcanon is that that my Inquisitor has been trying to slowly change her people's views on spirits. But I completely refuse to believe that Cole would fail to see the horrible price of what Solas wants to do and has already done, and say no, this is wrong. No matter how much Solas is hurting.

 

Do you think he knew the full extend of Solas' plans, and if so, what does it make you feel about him?

[almasy87]

When joining our thread, you automatically receive a free, complimentary gift of a high quality, hand crafted Cole-hat*. Perfect for shading yourself from the summer heat, keeping off the rain or freaking out your companions.

 

 

*One hat per person. Cannot be exchanged for gold or better looking headwear. Not responsible for emotional trauma to third parties. Side effects may include cryptic remarks and occasional bouts of mind reading.

What? For a second I thought this was a ss from the game.  Looks great XD

[thats1evildude]

Aimo made a little comic about Human Cole in Trespasser:

http://momochanners....ghtspeed-to#_=_

[Xilizhra]

Aimo made a little comic about Human Cole in Trespasser:

http://momochanners....ghtspeed-to#_=_

Crap, I didn't know Aimo was a pawn of evil.

 

Anyway, Cole! I think one of the reasons Cole is sympathetic to Solas is that he's acting to help people first and foremost. Yes, it would hurt a lot of other people (though probably it would kill them swiftly, and Cole always favors execution over imprisonment when it comes to judgment), but Solas' motives are fundamentally compassionate.

[thats1evildude]

Because ... it's bad that Cole is happy?

[Phalaenopsis]

Hi guys. I've been rather silent on the forums for a little while as I've been having a Trespasser hangover for over a week now. Now that my 3 main PTs are finished, I feel as if I had come back from a long, happy vacation with friends and even going back there with a new PT will never be the same. It's terrible, isn't it, how a GAME can make you feel such powerful feelings... My husband thinks I'm crazy...!!

 

Most of what I've felt and experienced with Cole in Trespasser has already been said. I am disappointed. In so many aspects.

First I wouldn't have picked Maryden for my precious boy but I guess I'll be fine with that. But he lack of dialogue (pre and post Solas encounter) is what pains me the most, the lack of interaction with my inquisitors... I would have been fine with just a kind word (but a hug would have been more than welcome). Even at the end when they all say their good-byes he doesn't say anything specific that would show the strong bond my quizzies had with him...And when their hand is torturing them, what a lack of...compassion!

 

And the cherry on the cake is exactly what you say, Korva. How could he not be MAD at Solas knowing all along what his plan was? Or maybe are WE wrong, maybe Solas isn't the villain they are trying to make us believe he is? Maybe there's even one more layer to his story that we can't yet comprehend and that Cole can see? I'm ready for anything right now, anything to bring my Cole back to what he's always been before Trespasser, Human or Spirit. 

 

I think I'm having a Trespasser breakdown!! (It's a good thing I had my fairytale ending with Cullen and sort of happy ending with atoned Blackwall at least...)

[Xilizhra]

Because ... it's bad that Cole is happy?

I was talking about Vivienne as Divine.

[Bigdoser]

Aimo made a little comic about Human Cole in Trespasser:

http://momochanners....ghtspeed-to#_=_

That was pretty much my reaction with cole's girlfriend. The blackwall picture is hilarious. XD

[Korva]

Anyway, Cole! I think one of the reasons Cole is sympathetic to Solas is that he's acting to help people first and foremost. Yes, it would hurt a lot of other people (though probably it would kill them swiftly, and Cole always favors execution over imprisonment when it comes to judgment), but Solas' motives are fundamentally compassionate.

 

Solas is not acting to help "people". Only his own chosen people. Everyone else can burn. That is not compassionate, and "I'll try to make it quick, so no one is allowed to call me a monster" doesn't fly either. Cole's compassion is (almost) universal. I simply can't imagine that he wouldn't be the first to decry what Solas is doing. It's perfectly reasonable that he'd still hurt for Solas and prefer to help him heal if possible, because that is what he is and what he does, but not at the cost of excusing or enabling these atrocities.

 

(Spirit) Cole about killing: "It's harder when it's people. Venatori, bandits, people who could change. But they chose. They hurt people. We need to stop them. My blades are yours to command." He has to psych himself up to do it -- I bet he got that last sentence from our soldiers -- and it still hurts, but he does it. What Solas is doing is a perfect fit for exactly the kind of behavior that crosses even Cole's line.

 

But he lack of dialogue (pre and post Solas encounter) is what pains me the most, the lack of interaction with my inquisitors... I would have been fine with just a kind word (but a hug would have been more than welcome). Even at the end when they all say their good-byes he doesn't say anything specific that would show the strong bond my quizzies had with him...And when their hand is torturing them, what a lack of...compassion!

 

Yes. I mean, "I won't forget" is a very meaningful promise for him, especially on the spirit path. That was touching. But the too-short goodbyes are not remotely enough, not from anyone and especially not from him. Why is there no Winter Palace cutscene in which he comes to us, knowing that the hand has started to act up, and offers some of his unique caring and comfort? Why can't we thank each other for everything we've gained and learned and shared, all then way back to (in my case) Therinfal? End it with a hug and a fade-out on a somber but unwaveringly supportive moment of quiet togetherness, and it would have been perfect.
 

And the cherry on the cake is exactly what you say, Korva. How could he not be MAD at Solas knowing all along what his plan was? Or maybe are WE wrong, maybe Solas isn't the villain they are trying to make us believe he is? Maybe there's even one more layer to his story that we can't yet comprehend and that Cole can see? I'm ready for anything right now, anything to bring my Cole back to what he's always been before Trespasser, Human or Spirit.

 

The problem is that if he knows more, he needs to tell us. The fact that we can't talk to anyone post-Solas is a mind-bogglingly terrible omission, especially as far as Cole is concerned. Right now, the only way I can even think about it all without feeling betrayed by both the writer and the character is to assume that Cole didn't know everything, namely the fact that Solas wants to destroy the world by bringing down the Veil. Solas managed to keep the "puzzle pieces" related to that hidden too well for even Cole to find, partly to keep his secret from this too-perceptive spirit and partly to be able to function among the Inquisition. This would also help explain why Solas "slipped up" and started viewing not-people as people and even friends: he had to keep up the act of the genuinely concerned and helpful apostate, and somewhere along the line it became less and less of an act.

 

Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but I need something to grasp at for the sake of my trust in Cole. With Solas, there were always more or less subtle red flags, then the post-credits cutscene, then the full Trespasser reveal. Cole on the other hand always struck me as a character we truly can trust, a character with a bittersweet but ultimately unflinchingly positive and hopeful arc, a character who cares with all sincerity and without reservation from the bottom of a great and pure heart. I just can't and don't want to believe that he knew everything but said nothing, because that would make his compassion little more than a placebo for the cattle so they stay calm and don't mess up their pen before the butcher comes. If we're still supposed to be friends after Trespasser, as the spirit-side epilogue says, he can't have known everything because I don't think any character's relationship with him could survive that.

 

Ugh, I wish I could ask Patrick Weekes some questions somehow. Obviously he couldn't spoil any possible future plans, but still ...

 

1. What exactly did Cole figure out about Solas during Inquisition? Specifically about the world destuction plan?

2. What exactly did Solas make him forget?

3. What is his reaction to the full reveal in Trespasser?

4. What would he say when confronted about hiding Solas' secrets from us, especially if he knew about Solas' plans?

5. Why were #3 and #4 not scenes in the DLC?

Modifié par Korva, 18 septembre 2015 - 08:55 .

[Xilizhra]

Solas is not acting to help "people". Only his own chosen people. Everyone else can burn. That is not compassionate, and "I'll try to make it quick, so no one is allowed to call me a monster" doesn't fly either. Cole's compassion is (almost) universal. I simply can't imagine that he wouldn't be the first to decry what Solas is doing. It's perfectly reasonable that he'd still hurt for Solas and prefer to help him heal if possible, because that is what he is and what he does, but not at the cost of excusing or enabling these atrocities.

 

(Spirit) Cole about killing: "It's harder when it's people. Venatori, bandits, people who could change. But they chose. They hurt people. We need to stop them. My blades are yours to command." He has to psych himself up to do it -- I bet he got that last sentence from our soldiers -- and it still hurts, but he does it. What Solas is doing is a perfect fit for exactly the kind of behavior that crosses even Cole's line.

Well, if there was a boss fight against Solas, I'm certain that Cole would still fight alongside the Inquisitor against him. I don't think that your fears have a genuine basis in the sense that Cole would cross over to Solas' side; really, I think Cole just wants to redeem Solas, which is perfectly fine.

 

 

Yes. I mean, "I won't forget" is a very meaningful promise for him, especially on the spirit path. That was touching. But the too-short goodbyes are not remotely enough, not from anyone and especially not from him. Why is there no Winter Palace cutscene in which he comes to us, knowing that the hand has started to act up, and offers some of his unique caring and comfort? Why can't we thank each other for everything we've gained and learned and shared, all then way back to (in my case) Therinfal? End it with a hug and a fade-out on a somber but unwaveringly supportive moment of quiet togetherness, and it would have been perfect.

Cole can't read the Inquisitor, because the Anchor is too bright. He has to really concentrate in order to get any sense of what the Inquisitor's emotions are, and even then, it's vague, indistinct, and has more to do with other peoples' expectations than the Inquisitor's actual feelings.

[Illyria]

 

1. What exactly did Cole figure out about Solas during Inquisition? Specifically about the world destuction plan?

2. What exactly did Solas make him forget?

3. What is his reaction to the full reveal in Trespasser?

4. What would he say when confronted about hiding Solas' secrets from us, especially if he knew about Solas' plans?

5. Why were #3 and #4 not scenes in the DLC?

 

According to Weekes:

 

1) Cole knew everything.  He's always known.

2) Solas made him forget how to find it him because he didn't want Cole walking the path with him.

3) ---

4) (not Weekes information - based on what we know from the game/spirit!Cole's comments) While what Solas intends to do is terrible we don't yet know the full picture.

[NeverlandHunter]

Hi guys! Dropping in! We're not spoiler tagging, are we?

Wow... after beating Trespasser all I can say is... Spirit Cole KNEW EVERYTHING! Solas didn't make him forget his identity, just how to find his location. He tells us Solas is close, but he doesn't want him to follow and near the end he basically reveals him before Solas does. That is one vital character to have in Trespasser! He has so much banter!

Trespasser made me want to have spirit Cole 

I don't find anything wrong with human Cole finding a girlfriend, per say, but it was a bit of a shock.

I had always hoped that Cole would be the companion that would transfer over to DA4 (since Dragon Age does this with every game) but I find that really unlikely now that I notice just how different Cole is coming. Who knows, in a few decades he might not even have any spirit-like abilities and just be a normal man. Although I like to think he'd always hold onto a part of his origins.

With all the revelations about Solas in Trespasser I'm left wondering what he was thinking when he saw how human Cole was becoming.