415 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

Fenris.

Just because I'm curious on just how the elf would take to the "help" the thing would offer.

I have a good idea though.

[Cespar]

 

 

Yeah, I think Cole would be willing to fight any invasion force, especially if they do what Bull says. Leashing or killing the mages. Breaking the minds of people like Sera and Varric. I was thinking about the Tevinter situation earlier and whether Cole would want to free slaves if he was there. I'd probably be worried about the blood magic binding thing, even with his personal quest done. 

 

 

I have a question for the thread: if you could have Cole meet any character from the previous games, who would it be and why?

We usually always get that one returning non-LI companion back on the team. But two thing, Cole will have to go to Tevinter and the next game would have to be set in Tevinter or at least in that area. I could see Cole actually going to a place where the people need the most help. 

 

I would want Cole to meet Justice or Merrill. Justice, because it would be interesting just to see how they would react to each other. Justice and Compassion does compliment each other rather well. Merrill, because she seemed very interesting in the spirits, and he could give her that up close study. That relationship probably would go way smoother than Liara and Javik  relationship. 

[Sabriel.]

I have a question for the thread: if you could have Cole meet any character from the previous games, who would it be and why?

Anders. I want Cole's read on the Justice/Vengeance situation so bad. In a sense, they are similar, though Justice actually possessed someone in order to do what he wanted.

[drosophila]

Agreed! Shall we pass questions around the campfire to get things goings?

 

1) Here's the big one, did you make Cole more spirit or more human and why?

 

2) Who is your favorite party pairing with Cole for banter?

 

3) Any general thoughts to share?

 

I'll get back with my own answers later

 

I meant to come to this thread and I'm already a few pages late. But, here go my answers:

 

1) Here's the big one, did you make Cole more spirit or more human and why?

 

More spirit for purely pragmatic reasons. The Inquisition already has plenty of humans/elves/dwarfs, even some Quinari, but Cole's the only spirit. I wouldn't want to diminish his powers as a spirit. 

 

I did try to make him more human in one playthrough to see what happens, and the dialog and cutscenes you get are absolutely heart-wrenching. I would've absolutely chosen that option, but it just didn't fit with the kind of story I was going with for my main playthrough.

 

2) Who is your favorite party pairing with Cole for banter?

 

Oddly enough, Varric. I'm a big fan of Solas and he and Cole are with my Inquisitor no matter where she goes. But purely in terms of banter, I think the one between Varric and Cole is the best, Cole is just so adorable when Varric tries to teach him about the world beyond the Fade. 

 

3) Any general thoughts to share?

 

I always wonder about that bottle of presumably some alcoholic drink that we see near Cole at his usual spot in the Tavern. Does he drink? Does he get drunk? What would he be like drunk?

[Sabriel.]

I meant to come to this thread and I'm already a few pages late. But, here go my answers:

 

2) Who is your favorite party pairing with Cole for banter?

 

Oddly enough, Varric. I'm a big fan of Solas and he and Cole are with my Inquisitor no matter where she goes. But purely in terms of banter, I think the one between Varric and Cole is the best, Cole is just so adorable when Varric tries to teach him about the world beyond the Fade. 

 

3) Any general thoughts to share?

 

I always wonder about that bottle of presumably some alcoholic drink that we see near Cole at his usual spot in the Tavern. Does he drink? Does he get drunk? What would he be like drunk?

Cole's continual failure at knock-knock jokes is legendary. I had to hear that on Youtube too, since I don't usually take more than one rogue with me at a time :C

 

Oh man, pretty sure he'd be the lightest of all lightweights. No alcohol tolerance already built up, no consuming food to help.....yeah. 

[nightscrawl]

Hmm, he might not be able to help them directly because the grief is so raw. I feel like he might do little things instead, to try and make their day easier and brighter. He mentions slipping honey into Leliana's wine, putting a wooden duck on Dorian's bed etc. I think he'd do something like that for the Inquisitor. Little things to keep them going. And maybe just company if they need it. I guess if you were the kind of person who just needed to break down and cry while someone hugs you, he'd do that. If you needed space, he'd just stick to the little helping things. Oh, this topic is rather sad. 

I was primarily thinking along the lines of how he would react, and feel, in the moment. And of course there would be his own sadness since he would actually know this (dead) person, in addition to feeling that compassion for the Inquisitor.

And... yeah this is a depressing topic. Writing the scene was terrible too and put all sorts of thoughts in my head.

I have a question for the thread: if you could have Cole meet any character from the previous games, who would it be and why?

Anders. That whole Justice combo thing just seems too good to pass up. But... I don't really think there is any way that he could possibly help Anders.

I'm going to go for the unexpected answer and say Oghren. There would be hilarity of course, but Oghren has issues too and I think Cole might be able to help him with some of those.

[Illyria]

Yay, a new Cole thread! I browsed the other one but was a bit too intimidated by some of the...opinions...expressed therein to revive it.

 

I love Cole a little too much. It's at the point where my husband asks me why I'm looking sad and I have to make up a lie rather than say it's because I'm depressed that Cole is not a real person. My husband is usually pretty understanding about my gaming obsessions but I don't want to push it.

 

In all my playthroughs I always make Cole more human. As much as I love Solas (and I do love Solas) I believe he is wrong on this point and that Varric is offering the more nuanced and compassionate solution. Cole made the decision to come through to help and by making him more human you're simply helping him along that path. He seems so happy to be able to learn to help without inadvertently freaking people out and if anyone deserves that kind of human happiness it's Cole. Also, like others have said, I don't trust that crappy amulet. It seems like a quick fix for a complex issue and almost makes me think that with Cole the way he is, the way he has made himself, he can only go forward with the human path.

 

I actually dislike the fact that we have to make the ultimate decision for Cole, it seems a bit wrong to me. Cole isn't an idiot and I think he should be able to choose for himself, but I know that from a gaming standpoint it makes sense for the player to have influence there. 

 

I have a question - there's a bit of banter between Cole and Solas that seems to be attributed to a number of different scenarios - some say it's a deleted file from the game, others that it is for more spirit Cole and some for more human Cole. Does anyone here know for certain? I know the Wiki attributes it to the latter but I have never heard it and it doesn't seem very consistent with human!Cole

 

Solas: How do you feel, Cole? Are you...

Cole: I am me. I cannot be bound, broken. I will help the hurt and kill the killers.

Solas: I see. I...let me know if I can help.

 

Apparently that dialouge is from the third path of Cole's quest that never made it into the game - he could kill the Templer. If you take him to fight Cory then Cole is turned into a demon and you have to fight him.  Or so I've been told.  Apparently Weekes cut the good or evil choice for a more morally complex one.

 

Yay, a new Cole thread!  I'm not very active in character threads, but I'm glad this is back.

1) I may have cheated slightly.  I imported my canon worldstate twice, so he can be more human on one and more spirit on the other. It's still such a hard choice for me, since I love both paths. I mean, on the one hand he has the opportunity to grow as a person, and help people on a much more complex and emotional level. He also has the chance to experience everything that mortal life has to offer (except food, bleugh!  ). On the other hand, he has all his abilities still available so he can help lots of people, he's able to rediscover his 'true nature', and he can return to the Fade if he wishes. Both have risks, though I don't think he'd ever go the way of Justice. And either way, he's still the Cole I know and love. 

 

2) Cassandra! I love how much their relationship grows, how she starts off distrusting him, but eventually they end up as good friends. Especially after her personal quest, and he helps her come to terms with the Tranquility thing. They just make my heart melt! My two favourite characters. His friendships with Dorian and Solas are runners up. Dorian was pretty unexpected! I keep trying to get Sera to the point that she and Cole are... comfortable (ish?) with each other. Think the best I'll get is "you're a weird person, go away". I hear he also has some interesting insights into Vivienne.

 

Yeah, I think Cole would be willing to fight any invasion force, especially if they do what Bull says. Leashing or killing the mages. Breaking the minds of people like Sera and Varric. I was thinking about the Tevinter situation earlier and whether Cole would want to free slaves if he was there. I'd probably be worried about the blood magic binding thing, even with his personal quest done. 

 

I'm about to start watching that show! If there's someone similar to Cole in there, I just know I'd love it.

 

Hmm, he might not be able to help them directly because the grief is so raw. I feel like he might do little things instead, to try and make their day easier and brighter. He mentions slipping honey into Leliana's wine, putting a wooden duck on Dorian's bed etc. I think he'd do something like that for the Inquisitor. Little things to keep them going. And maybe just company if they need it. I guess if you were the kind of person who just needed to break down and cry while someone hugs you, he'd do that. If you needed space, he'd just stick to the little helping things. Oh, this topic is rather sad. 

 

I have a question for the thread: if you could have Cole meet any character from the previous games, who would it be and why?

 

Fenris.  I also want Fenris to meet Viv and Dorian.  I love Dorian but he needs to learn what slavery is like in his country when you're not a privilaged human altus.

[Cee]

Since people are talking about Cole meets Anders, I thought of this post: http://hikoosaki.tum...but-think-about

[Cespar]

 

 

I always wonder about that bottle of presumably some alcoholic drink that we see near Cole at his usual spot in the Tavern. Does he drink? Does he get drunk? What would he be like drunk?

Cole would be reading everyone mind and saying what they're thinking out loud. That could be very embarrassing for some people, like Cassandra, perhaps.   I just walked into his area in the pub. 

[Commander of the Grey]

I read Asunder after finishing the game, so I didn't go in with any knowledge of Cole but reading Asunder, which I recommend, gave me about 1000x more Cole feelings and I didn't imagine that was possible.

As far as the decision in Cole's personal quest, it was very easy for me. i felt like Varric was more wishful thinking and pushing Cole into becoming something he wasn't, even with good intentions.

I came to a similar conclusion as you and reinforced him as a spirit. That to me is more true to who he is though it is rather bittersweet, but he is light and happy with it.

I like to think of it as: if it was the other way around, if he were human with the option to make him a spirit, would the choice be easier or harder? And why? To me it would be harder to make him a spirit because that's not what he is and it seems worse somehow. It should feel the same but....I'm terrible at putting my thoughts into words.

I didn't like making the decision. At all and the only way I can walk away guilt free is his response to Solas.

"I am clean and clear, uncluttered."

And he just sounds so darn chipper that I want to hug him forever.

He does seem happy either way but I personally don't want to have a hand in changing his nature when he isn't even sure what he wants. A confusion he might never have had if he hadn't spent so much time in the company of living people.

In the end I think the choice does say more about Solas, Varric, and us as the player more than it does about Cole. Hence why I think the choice is simply gray, not right or wrong.

[The Oracle]

Yeah, Cole's choice gave me a similar reaction as I did to the Iron Bull's Chargers. I think it was one of those moments where I end up shouting at my screen "Really? *I* have to chose this? Is this really MY decision. Friggin...*mumble mumble* *curses and goes to get some bourbon before deciding*"

[TarotFox]

I chose to make Cole more human. In Asunder he thought he WAS human and it was one of his worst fears that he would turn out to be "not real." He's come to more peace with himself by Inquisition, and he's obviously very torn about this choice, but I think that his behavior in Asunder indicates that there's at least some underlying desire there. I mean, he and Rhys spent so much time in Asunder trying to work out Cole's "problem" so that he could be with people. The way Cole behaved when he didn't know he was a spirit makes me feel like there's something worth preserving about that side of him.

[Korva]

Cheers for opening this thread. Cole is such a fascinating fellow, and while I was a little weirded out by him at first during CotJ, that same "strangeness" and his undeniable kindness quickly won me over and made him my all-time favourite Bioware character. Which is why I can get rambly and long-winded when discussing him.

 

Agreed! Shall we pass questions around the campfire to get things goings?

 

1) Here's the big one, did you make Cole more spirit or more human and why?

 

Spirit. I really agonized about it at first because there is something undeniably and intentionally bittersweet in the fact that his healing involves strengthening one side of him at the expense of the other. Ultimately, though, I picked the spirit-side for a variety of reasons that I have explained several times in the old thread and other Cole-related threads. It is a deliberate rejection of humanity's tendency to elevate ourselves above everything else, to hold up being human as the highest prize to which nothing can compare. We have that incredibly damaging impulse to say "what is different is inferior or all-out wrong", and that makes my toenails curl ... in no part because I have my share of experience being on the receiving end of it. And Cole certainly does not deserve that. Varric's "he could have been a person" reaction made me see red because it's so typical of this attitude -- it doesn't have to be actively malicious to be hurtful and damaging. Solas too is sad when the tables are turned, but for all that he can be a hugely arrogant arsebag at times, he accepts and engages and tries to see something positive in it all. Between Varric's reaction being shoved at us without a chance to dispute it, and the way Bioware dropped the ball with the final more-spirit-path cutscene, it does unfortunately feel like they put a bit more effort in the more-human-path, and I think it plays a role in putting some people off the more-spirit choice.

 

As I said, his "weirdness" is one primary reason why I quickly began to find him fascinating. That alien, otherwordly side of him is both a challenge and an opportunity -- for the Inquisitor to open her mind, to learn, to do her best to understand, to abandon old prejudice and superstition that every background is likely to have for a more unbiased and respectful view of "the other side". To meet him halfway in his struggles, as it were. To tell him that he doesn't have to be more like us in order to find a place with us, to be respected, trusted, valued and loved for all that he is. There is no "despite his weirdness" in that, the "weirdness" is part of it all. His perceptions and perspective are valid, even though he is not infallible and there are some things he can't really grasp. That's fine. Humans are fallible too and there's a lot we can't grasp, either, so it's not like he trades weakness for perfection if he becomes more human. There's a lot of focus on what Cole can or should or must learn -- and there are certainly some good points to be made there! -- but IMO what's often regrettably overlooked is what the Inquisitor and company can learn from him.

 

Basically, it's all summed up beautifully in these lines from the dinner cutscene: "You found out, but you didn't change, didn't make me change. You let me be this, be more. Thank you for helping me find this again. For believing in me. You don't know what it means." It choked me up in a huge way, especially the last two sentences because I felt as if the writer had perceived and understood my intentions perfectly, and that is a rare and precious thing in a game.

 

Beside that, much of what I enjoy about him is also more closely tied to or more strongly expressed in the spirit-side of him. The cadence of his voice and his speech patterns, for example. And the actual spirit-side resolution to his personal quest is not only one of the most moving moments in my gaming history but also an exemplary demonstration of technology serving storytelling instead of trying to substitute for it with flashy-sparkly-shooty crap, which is sadly common in the industry. The writing, the incredible voice acting, the music and the changes in Cole's posture, facial expression and eyes all come together to show how the rage and bloodthirst melt and crack and fall away as he stills, opens up and reaches out, recognizing the depth of their shared anguish and telling his "killer" that it is enough, that he doesn't have to carry this any more. I want to give everyone involved big kudos for that.

 

2) Who is your favorite party pairing with Cole for banter?

 

Solas, because Cole brings out the best in him in and they are pure poetry together. Cassandra comes in second, and not just because I love her almost as much as I love Cole. It's fascinating and touching to watch her attitude change from "DEMON! Skewer it!" to an almost older-sister-like affection. And while Cole is kind to everyone, I sometimes had the impression that he tried extra hard to win Cassandra's trust. Hearing him refer to the two of them as "Faith and Compassion" put a big smile on my face. My Inquisitor was delighted to see her two dearest friends bond, they both need and deserve what the other can offer. (I imagine they also turn into a formidable tag-team on matters like "Let's make the stressed workaholic Inquisitor get some rest before she keels over, and we won't take 'I am fine' or 'later' for an answer".)

 

Cole, Cass and Solas are my go-to party and my banter favourites overall. The writers were not kidding when they described them as (if memory serves) Team Mutually Respectful Moral and Theological Debate.

 

Dorian and Blackwall have some really good banters with Cole as well, both humorous and serious, and it's well worth trying to get them all. It feels like Dorian goes from seeing Cole as kind of an intellectual puzzle / magical phenomenon to someone he genuinely comes to like and trust. And that means a lot since he does not open up easily. Blackwall, of course, hides fear of discovery behind belligerent suspicion, but even he comes around to a certain careful fondness. Later on, post-Revelations Blackwall and more-spirit-Cole are an incredibly touching combo. You can basically hear Blackwall, still reeling from his unwanted rescue, screaming for someone to condemn him, and he thinks Cole would and should do it since he knows what it's like to be a victim. But Cole is also Compassion. And in that, Blackwall might find the chance to learn to cope with his anguish and self-hate.

 

This might be controversial, but of the companions I like and use (i.e. anyone but Iron Bull, Sera and Vivienne), I actually enjoyed Varric's interactions with Cole the least by a wide margin, even ignoring the problem I have with his behavior during Cole's personal quest.

 

3) Any general thoughts to share?

 

Did anyone else think he's curiously unconcerned by the fact that two extremely dangerous, startled and suspicious warriors (a former and a current ultimate anti-demon-warrior at that) are waving swords in his face when he appears on the war table after the templar recruitment mission? It's a stark contrast to how he shies away from Cullen in his first appearance in a mage-recruitment game -- and unlike the war table appearance, Cullen's aggression isn't even directed at him in that situation.

 

It seems that both scenes show hints of his willingness to trust the proto-Inquisitor ... though that really only works if you're not playing a tosser or someone who accidentally tanked his approval so early on, because otherwise he goes from "trying to trust you" cutscene to "barely talking to you" free gameplay and that does not compute. If you did CotJ, he's already shared your mind and seen that you are -- presumably -- a good person trying to help others, and maybe he also hopes that you're willing to trust him a bit in turn and won't let Cass and Cullen hurt him. If you did IHW, he steps towards you after shying away from Cullen, as if expressing that same hope. It's rather touching, in a subtle way.

 

Some observations that slipped by me during my first playthrough until people pointed them out here:

 

1) Cole can be seen tagging after you in the cutscene when you arrive at Therinfal, which is why you can ask him if you've seen him before when he first shows himself during Envy's mind-screwery. I can't believe I didn't remember that -- he sticks out like a scrawny, ragged, big-hatted scarecrow among all those fancy nobles, so he's pretty hard to miss. It's amusingly fitting, though, given how people constantly forget him.

 

2) He also sits on a shed/stable somewhere during the Therinfal gameplay sequences, but his hat and hair are glitched in a rather freaky manner.

 

3) He has his shirt on backwards in some armors.

[Korva]

 So I guess I'm saying I want him to stay with the Inquisitor f o r e v e r because I'm selfish and a total sap.

 

I hear you! Bioware does have this teeth-grating tendency to make NPCs abandon the protagonist as soon as the big bad's corpse hits the ground, and for them to hit us over the head with it during the victory celebration felt like bad form in particular. Can't we just be happy together and celebrate that togetherness for a while after our triumph?

 

When I love an NPC, I love them in no small part for the bond they have with the protagonist. Seeing them randomly chucked in another game or a tie-in without a whisper of acknowledgment for that friendship not only does nothing for me but actively annoys me. I'm asexual, so I'm all about the platonic bonds ... it's depressing when Bioware hypes those bonds during a game and then promptly ignores them as if they never mattered. So yes, I too don't want a cameo from Cole, I want him to stay with the Inquisitor. I'm not saying every NPC needs to stick around forever, but you'd think at least some would, and Cole is the perfect candidate for that kind of enduring friendship. More-human or more-spirit, he found a place where he is both needed and wanted, and he doesn't really have anywhere else to go in the mortal world.

 

Goddammit, kid, stick that murder knife of yours deeper into my heart, why don't you? (He earned a permanent place in my party after that.)

 

Yes, I've never met a character who could hit me with even half as many heartstring-yanker moments as Cole does ... both for other people and for him.

 

Can we talk about James Norton and his fantastic voice work for a moment? Because he hits every note of Cole's compassion, wonder, caring, fear, sadness, awkwardness, and subtle changes.

 

(and)

 

But I really love all the subtleties of his performance for Cole. He has to sound otherworldly, but still relatable. Detached and innocent, but also confused, sad, afraid, ....I could basically go on all day.

 

(As far as voice work goes, I think Solas, Cole, and Dorian had the best performances, though all of them were good. Those three just need different levels of versatility.)

 

I'm all for talking about the brilliant voice acting! It's possibly the best I have heard -- definitely a big reason why this character is so incredibly convincing, fascinating and endearing. I'd give James Norton an award if I could. Or a dozen. The versatility in his performance is indeed impressive, mixing strength and vulnerability, innocence and wisdom. And it's very, very soothing. Until Cole gets angry. Seriously, Cole's hot rage and cold bloodthirst during his personal mission shocked and unnerved me more than say Envy or the Nightmare or any other enemy ever did. He got upset when we found the Tranquil skulls, but not like that. I didn't need any extra motivation to help Cole, but James Norton upped the ante by really driving home how close Cole was coming to making his own worst fear come true.

[heretica]

Anders. I want Cole's read on the Justice/Vengeance situation so bad. In a sense, they are similar, though Justice actually possessed someone in order to do what he wanted.

 

Why are they similar? Cole is not an abomination (if we understand abominations as possessed mages). I feel this is not a very good comparison but I know what you meant.

[Korva]

I actually dislike the fact that we have to make the ultimate decision for Cole, it seems a bit wrong to me. Cole isn't an idiot and I think he should be able to choose for himself, but I know that from a gaming standpoint it makes sense for the player to have influence there.

 

Yes, while we come from opposite POVs regarding the outcome of his quest, this is something I wholly agree with ... as do most people, I imagine. Discussing his fate as if he's not even there is beyond rude, and given how murderously angry he is in that moment, it also makes no sense for him to obligingly go on standby until we are done debating. We should engage with him, try to calm and support him, not argue over him.

 

I have a question - there's a bit of banter between Cole and Solas that seems to be attributed to a number of different scenarios - some say it's a deleted file from the game

 

It is from the scrapped third outcome of his personal quest, as Illyria said. I'm very glad it was not implemented, not only because it would have been horrifying both in that scene (apparently Cole would essentially have tortured the ex-templar to death in front of our eyes) and in the eventual outcome (Corypheus taking over and making us kill Cole), not only because I generally dislike nonsensical "evil" options, not only because I can't imagine either Solas or Varric stand by and watch it happen ... but also because Cole is (despite the bittersweet nature of his quest) a hopeful and positive character at the core and should be allowed to remain as such. Not everything or everyone has to be tragic and bitter and grimmedarque. And I say that as someone who does think Inquisition is way too smooth sailing and needs more setbacks, and as someone who can't imagine any ending for Origins other than the ultimate sacrifice.

 

Oh, I asked this question in some other thread, but I figured I'd ask you all. I thought of this while writing a scene in a fic. The fic contained a combat scene after which the Inquisitor's LI dies (it was a nightmare, I'm not that mean). But it made me wonder how Cole would react in such a situation. He's used to helping people whose emotional pain has lingered after whatever caused it, but I imagine that fresh anguish like that would be overwhelming for him.

 

I answered in the old thread, so I'll just add that Cole is no stranger to fresh/immediate anguish. The fall of Haven alone is a huge disaster consisting of a thousand personal tragedies, and both there and in its aftermath he flings himself right into the thick of it. Fighting, saving, hearing, sharing, healing ... or the final mercy of cutting suffering short when nothing else can be done. Though still on the slow path to his own recovery from the pre-Inquisition events, he has regained enough of himself that he can handle such situations and give comfort without being swept away by it all or crippled by despair over not being able to save everyone. It would be hard on him, no doubt, but he'd do his best to attune himself to whatever the grieving person needs and give comfort that way. As BraveVesperia says, basically.

 

Yay, a new Cole thread!  I'm not very active in character threads, but I'm glad this is back.

 

Good to see you again, I remember our talks in that old thread.

 

I have a question for the thread: if you could have Cole meet any character from the previous games, who would it be and why?

 

Hmm, Wynne. I have not read Asunder, but I know she dies in that book -- does she get to interact with Cole in any way? Between her own kind and nurturing nature, her bond with the Faith-spirit, and the fact that she is Rhys' mother, I'm sure there's a lot to her that would interest Cole ... as well as various hurts and regrets accumulated over her long life, even though she's come to terms with most of them. The Fifth Blight was nightmare fodder in and of itself, and in my world Wynne had a front-row view of watching the Warden die to end it all. And she in turn would try to help Cole in his attempt to make sense of this side of the Veil.

 

I'd also be curious to see Leliana actually interact with Cole. She barely twitches when he introduces himself so spectacularly after the templar recruitment mission. I imagine knowing the truth about Wynne and her spirit and thus knowing that not every Fade-creature is a threat would help her be a bit more accepting than most. But yikes Leliana alone could keep Cole busy for years.

 

On a less solemn note, I think watching him with the Warden's mabari could be both funny and intriguing. A rather intelligent canine and an embodied spirit, both with different but very keen senses that "normal people" can barely imagine. I'm sure they'd have conversations that even Solas couldn't keep up with.

 

Hmmm, that brings up an interesting question. It's easy for Cole to fight in this war, he's fighting against demons and templars that have been completely corrupted by the red lyrium, but if it was a fight against normal, perhaps misguided, people? I'd imagine he wouldn't take sides, but instead protect civilians from both parties, but maybe he would side against the Qunari since they would be the aggressors?

 

You can ask him about fighting and killing if you go with the spirit-side of his quest. Basically, killing people is hard for him, even when faced with undeniable badguys such as the Venatori. They could change, like Rainer/Blackwall did, like Cole himself did when he started reclaiming himself from his confused-broken-quasi-demon past. Still, those who choose to hurt others have to be stopped. It sounds like he has to sort of psych himself up to do it, but he will do it, so I think he would regretfully help to stop a qunari or Tevinter invasion as well. Though I think he'd definitely advocate for those who were only pressed into fighting against their will, like slaves and conscripts -- and he definitely wouldn't stand for the Inquisition mistreating civilians. (I imagine my Inquistor specifically asks him quite early on to specifically keep an "ear" out for callousness or cruelty in their ranks, and for people who have cause to fear the Inquisition's soldiers, templars and mages due to bad behavior that might not have been reported back.)

[Cee]

Yes, while we come from opposite POVs regarding the outcome of his quest, this is something I wholly agree with ... as do most people, I imagine. Discussing his fate as if he's not even there is beyond rude, and given how murderously angry he is in that moment, it also makes no sense for him to obligingly go on standby until we are done debating. We should engage with him, try to calm and support him, not argue over him.

 

 

It is from the scrapped third outcome of his personal quest, as Illyria said. I'm very glad it was not implemented, not only because it would have been horrifying both in that scene (apparently Cole would essentially have tortured the ex-templar to death in front of our eyes) and in the eventual outcome (Corypheus taking over and making us kill Cole), not only because I generally dislike nonsensical "evil" options, not only because I can't imagine either Solas or Varric stand by and watch it happen ... but also because Cole is (despite the bittersweet nature of his quest) a hopeful and positive character at the core and should be allowed to remain as such. Not everything or everyone has to be tragic and bitter and grimmedarque. And I say that as someone who does think Inquisition is way too smooth sailing and needs more setbacks, and as someone who can't imagine any ending for Origins other than the ultimate sacrifice.

 

 

I answered in the old thread, so I'll just add that Cole is no stranger to fresh/immediate anguish. The fall of Haven alone is a huge disaster consisting of a thousand personal tragedies, and both there and in its aftermath he flings himself right into the thick of it. Fighting, saving, hearing, sharing, healing ... or the final mercy of cutting suffering short when nothing else can be done. Though still on the slow path to his own recovery from the pre-Inquisition events, he has regained enough of himself that he can handle such situations and give comfort without being swept away by it all or crippled by despair over not being able to save everyone. It would be hard on him, no doubt, but he'd do his best to attune himself to whatever the grieving person needs and give comfort that way. As BraveVesperia says, basically.

 

 

Good to see you again, I remember our talks in that old thread.

 

 

Hmm, Wynne. I have not read Asunder, but I know she dies in that book -- does she get to interact with Cole in any way? Between her own kind and nurturing nature, her bond with the Faith-spirit, and the fact that she is Rhys' mother, I'm sure there's a lot to her that would interest Cole ... as well as various hurts and regrets accumulated over her long life, even though she's come to terms with most of them. The Fifth Blight was nightmare fodder in and of itself, and in my world Wynne had a front-row view of watching the Warden die to end it all. And she in turn would try to help Cole in his attempt to make sense of this side of the Veil.

 

I'd also be curious to see Leliana actually interact with Cole. She barely twitches when he introduces himself so spectacularly after the templar recruitment mission. I imagine knowing the truth about Wynne and her spirit and thus knowing that not every Fade-creature is a threat would help her be a bit more accepting than most. But yikes Leliana alone could keep Cole busy for years.

 

 

Wynne and Cole do meet. Cole is a source of....conflict, to say the least.  Wynne in Asunder was a little like Leliana in Inquisition....bothered me at first how different. Though Leliana is in Asunder briefly too. I'd say read it if you can.

[redbowlingball]

 

 

Spirit. I really agonized about it at first because there is something undeniably and intentionally bittersweet in the fact that his healing involves strengthening one side of him at the expense of the other. Ultimately, though, I picked the spirit-side for a variety of reasons that I have explained several times in the old thread and other Cole-related threads. It is a deliberate rejection of humanity's tendency to elevate ourselves above everything else, to hold up being human as the highest prize to which nothing can compare. We have that incredibly damaging impulse to say "what is different is inferior or all-out wrong", and that makes my toenails curl ... in no part because I have my share of experience being on the receiving end of it. And Cole certainly does not deserve that. Varric's "he could have been a person" reaction made me see red because it's so typical of this attitude -- it doesn't have to be actively malicious to be hurtful and damaging. Solas too is sad when the tables are turned, but for all that he can be a hugely arrogant arsebag at times, he accepts and engages and tries to see something positive in it all. Between Varric's reaction being shoved at us without a chance to dispute it, and the way Bioware dropped the ball with the final more-spirit-path cutscene, it does unfortunately feel like they put a bit more effort in the more-human-path, and I think it plays a role in putting some people off the more-spirit choice.

 

As I said, his "weirdness" is one primary reason why I quickly began to find him fascinating. That alien, otherwordly side of him is both a challenge and an opportunity -- for the Inquisitor to open her mind, to learn, to do her best to understand, to abandon old prejudice and superstition that every background is likely to have for a more unbiased and respectful view of "the other side". To meet him halfway in his struggles, as it were. To tell him that he doesn't have to be more like us in order to find a place with us, to be respected, trusted, valued and loved for all that he is. There is no "despite his weirdness" in that, the "weirdness" is part of it all. His perceptions and perspective are valid, even though he is not infallible and there are some things he can't really grasp. That's fine. Humans are fallible too and there's a lot we can't grasp, either, so it's not like he trades weakness for perfection if he becomes more human. There's a lot of focus on what Cole can or should or must learn -- and there are certainly some good points to be made there! -- but IMO what's often regrettably overlooked is what the Inquisitor and company can learn from him.

 

Basically, it's all summed up beautifully in these lines from the dinner cutscene: "You found out, but you didn't change, didn't make me change. You let me be this, be more. Thank you for helping me find this again. For believing in me. You don't know what it means." It choked me up in a huge way, especially the last two sentences because I felt as if the writer had perceived and understood my intentions perfectly, and that is a rare and precious thing in a game.

 

 

I totally agree with what you say about humans thinking they're the be all and end all and it was this aspect that initially made the decision very hard for me. I had nodded and agreed with all of Solas' talk of spirits up until that point and so when I was making this choice I tried very hard to figure out if my inclination for making Cole human was based out of this kind of superiority deeming humanity the better option. But, having read Asunder and played through the game too many several times, I do think Varric was correct that humanity was Cole's initial choice. In many places Cole seems desperate for touch, affection and for people to remember him, even though it frightens him. Because I disliked making this decision for him I tried to figure out which path Cole would have chosen himself and I think Cole would have wanted to become more human. Vanilla Cole is not fully a human or a spirit, he's some sort of unique mix, which suggests that as a spirit he made the choice (fully aware of it's implications or not) to move forward into the Cole we meet. It also means that the decision we are asked to make is about either putting him back to his original state or moving him forward on the path he had already taken pre-game. Making him more spirit-like could be construed as the player (and Solas) saying that preserving the purity of spirits is more important than taking Cole's individual wants and agency into account and making an 'I know better' choice for him. But I can also see that choosing the human path can also be seen as an 'I know better' decision (or a 'poor baby!!11' one), so I believe that both choices have their merits and drawbacks and I hate having to make the choice at all! I agree that it seems more effort was put into the human path, perhaps this will be the 'canon' choice for future games? I think if the spirit path was more about making Cole immune to possession on his own rather than relying on an amulet I'd be a lot more in favour of it.

 

I think it says a lot about the writing and the quality of Cole's character that he provokes these kinds of discussions

 

 

 

It is from the scrapped third outcome of his personal quest, as Illyria said. I'm very glad it was not implemented, not only because it would have been horrifying both in that scene (apparently Cole would essentially have tortured the ex-templar to death in front of our eyes) and in the eventual outcome (Corypheus taking over and making us kill Cole), not only because I generally dislike nonsensical "evil" options, not only because I can't imagine either Solas or Varric stand by and watch it happen ... but also because Cole is (despite the bittersweet nature of his quest) a hopeful and positive character at the core and should be allowed to remain as such. Not everything or everyone has to be tragic and bitter and grimmedarque. And I say that as someone who does think Inquisition is way too smooth sailing and needs more setbacks, and as someone who can't imagine any ending for Origins other than the ultimate sacrifice.

 

 

I am so glad that this was cut from the game, for all the reasons you gave, but also because I know there are certain people who would take that option with glee and that makes me immeasurably sad. I wouldn't want there to be even just one instance of someone canonically choosing for that to happen to Cole

 

 

 

Hmm, Wynne. I have not read Asunder, but I know she dies in that book -- does she get to interact with Cole in any way? Between her own kind and nurturing nature, her bond with the Faith-spirit, and the fact that she is Rhys' mother, I'm sure there's a lot to her that would interest Cole ... as well as various hurts and regrets accumulated over her long life, even though she's come to terms with most of them. The Fifth Blight was nightmare fodder in and of itself, and in my world Wynne had a front-row view of watching the Warden die to end it all. And she in turn would try to help Cole in his attempt to make sense of this side of the Veil.

 

I'd also be curious to see Leliana actually interact with Cole. She barely twitches when he introduces himself so spectacularly after the templar recruitment mission. I imagine knowing the truth about Wynne and her spirit and thus knowing that not every Fade-creature is a threat would help her be a bit more accepting than most. But yikes Leliana alone could keep Cole busy for years.

 

Wynne and Leliana both meet and interact with Cole in Asunder. It's worth a read if you can get hold of it. I bought it just to find out more about Cole and it delivered. 

 

I like all of the possible Cole lookalikes posted and they're certainly what I imagined while reading Asunder, but for actual in game Cole, I think he shares a lot of physical features with Rupert Grint, no? 

 

Spoiler

 

[Sabriel.]

Why are they similar? Cole is not an abomination (if we understand abominations as possessed mages). I feel this is not a very good comparison but I know what you meant.

Yeah, I didn't word that well. I meant more that Justice and the compassion spirit who would be Cole both wanted to help people and acquired bodies to that end, but they go about it in drastically different ways. Both of them warp into something more demon-y, but Cole actively tries to stop that side of himself whereas Justice seems to encourage it. I want to hear what Cole has to say about Justice/Vengeance mostly because of his unique insight.

[Sabriel.]

3. People who judge him as weird or a demon and banish him are missing out on a complex character who makes the game more interesting, especially during those tedious side quests that we all love to complain about.

Yes. For a shy spirit who wants most people to not see him/forget him I was actually surprised how chatty he turned out to be! Commenting on how cute tuskets are with Blackwall (can I just say that I only like Blackwall when he's talking with Cole, this is how great Cole is), saying hello to the wandering spirits in Crestwood, always going "It's nice to help people! :D" after a random sidequest. He adds a lot of flavor to the boring parts of the game for sure.

[Illyria]

Yes. For a shy spirit who wants most people to not see him/forget him I was actually surprised how chatty he turned out to be! Commenting on how cute tuskets are with Blackwall (can I just say that I only like Blackwall when he's talking with Cole, this is how great Cole is), saying hello to the wandering spirits in Crestwood, always going "It's nice to help people! :D" after a random sidequest. He adds a lot of flavor to the boring parts of the game for sure.

 

Seeing a little 'Cole Approves' in the corner of the screen always makes me smile.

[redbowlingball]

Seeing a little 'Cole Approves' in the corner of the screen always makes me smile.

 

Yes. For a shy spirit who wants most people to not see him/forget him I was actually surprised how chatty he turned out to be! Commenting on how cute tuskets are with Blackwall (can I just say that I only like Blackwall when he's talking with Cole, this is how great Cole is), saying hello to the wandering spirits in Crestwood, always going "It's nice to help people! :D" after a random sidequest. He adds a lot of flavor to the boring parts of the game for sure.

 

My husband is doing his first playthrough of Dragon Age and every time he picks up the controller he gets 'TAKE COLE WITH YOU' in his ear. Cole is the best companion in terms of commentary. 

 

That said, the other day I was wandering around and saw a whole load of tuskets grouped together nice and close. "Huzzah, easy prey' I said and got ready to launch some chain lightning, only for Cole to laugh and ecstatically proclaim 'Oh look! They're friendly!  ' THANKS COLE. No leather for me.

[The Oracle]

Yes. For a shy spirit who wants most people to not see him/forget him I was actually surprised how chatty he turned out to be! Commenting on how cute tuskets are with Blackwall (can I just say that I only like Blackwall when he's talking with Cole, this is how great Cole is), saying hello to the wandering spirits in Crestwood, always going "It's nice to help people! :D" after a random sidequest. He adds a lot of flavor to the boring parts of the game for sure.

 

This! That's why I've just completed the Templar recruitment quest while having completed only a couple of quests in the Hinterlands. I'm doing a playthrough with Cole as a constant in my party, so I can get all of his interesting little comments. I'll just have to switch up the others far more often (might even have to take Vivienne out with me at some point *disgusted noise*).

[heretica]

Yeah, I didn't word that well. I meant more that Justice and the compassion spirit who would be Cole both wanted to help people and acquired bodies to that end, but they go about it in drastically different ways. Both of them warp into something more demon-y, but Cole actively tries to stop that side of himself whereas Justice seems to encourage it. I want to hear what Cole has to say about Justice/Vengeance mostly because of his unique insight.

 

Oh yes. I do see Cole as a demon 100%. I mean, we got some proofs. The mind reading (blood magic?), invisibility (which works by manipulating the minds of others, he's not casting an invisibility spell per se) then the Litany of Adralla working on him, etc. But at the same time in Inquisition he separates himself from the real Cole that died. He is a very complex character, you can't never be sure about him... is he lying? is he putting an act? I love the character so much because of these things. One can't say things are black or white when it comes to Cole.  It's great. He reminds me a bit of David from Prometheus.