76 réponses à ce sujet

[Dieb]

CDPR has proven that if you pay your developers in zloty and make your profits in dollars, you can develop AAA games on the cheap. Unless you think EA should start outsourcing development to Eastern Europem there's not much to learn from CDPR. Well, I suppose one can learn how to praise gamers in a patronising way.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love TW3 - it's a wonderful game. But CDPR isn't deserving of any kind of unique praise, anymore than any other massively succcesful AAA development company. 

 

...which also owns GoG.

 

I like their quality work, but I'm growing a little tired of the David VS Goliath delusion, which enables their entire marketing devision taking one long weekend after the other. As long as EA's keeps being lackluster at their job, CDPR's games pretty much sell themselves. The whole "free Day One DLC" shotgun-blast-release-thing I consider their masterpiece thus far. It shows how far we've come.

 

"As long as they're not  selling, we're buying."

[ashwind]

 

 

"So many complains about "fake milestones"        Isnt that standard practice in the Software industry. Tis not "fake milestones" tis just "milestones with buffering".  :rolleyes:"

 

 

 

I tried to convince my ex-wife of that.

 

I told her that she simply needed to buffer my milestone.

 

My customer service assured her that this was the standard practice in my software industry and tis was not a "fake milestone" just a "milestone that required proper buffering".

 

Her lawyers did not buy it.

 

So now every time my milestone requires a proper buffering I have to pay for it.

 

 

Is this not how project managers decide milestone deadlines? The software needs to be delivered in 3 months time. Project manager will tell the team lead 2 months. The team lead will tell the developers 1.5 months. 

 

snicker. In your case, you should have given your ex the milestone with buffering to begin with

[duckley]

Have we missed the point perhaps? Both are great games - each have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are great franchises. Both have brought tremendous entertainment value to many, many gamers.  Bioware could learn from the areas in which TW3 excelled and vice versa.

 

IMO overall, TW3- from what I look for in a game and a story - was the stronger game by far. However, I would have rated DA:O stronger than TW1 and DA2 stronger than TW2.

 

Regardless of approach or financial structure, both companies are out to make money so than can still develop and produce great games for us to play.

[berelinde]

Not going to get involved in the endless deceased horse flogging over DA/TW. People are trying to make it into a contest when it isn't. It's just two games, and both have fans, some of whom are shared between them.

 

But I do think BioWare should get that interviewer in as voice talent for DA4. He was a pleasure to listen to.

[Bfler]

Bioware could learn from the areas in which TW3 excelled and vice versa.

 

What could CDPR learn from Bioware?

[In Exile]

Interesting. I am liking David's attitude about TW3. Both games are highly succesful AAA fantasy titles and franchises that deserve their fame and should have a healthy competition where one could learn from another, instead of a toxic rivalry.

 

... also, am I the only one who finds it funny that when a company actually does something *for* the gamers (free content, DLCs, no DRM etc), there are always some people who must see some ulterior motive behind it? (As if they were reaching and stretching to downplay whatever is positive about this kind of behaviour.)

 

And maybe there is but so long as I (the player and paying consumer) benefit from it, I have no problem with that. More ulterior motives like this please. And I will praise the **** out of you.

 

There is 100% an ulterior motive, in the sense that the motive isn't to benefit games at huge personal expense with no possibility of return. But it would be stupid if they had that motive in the first place. They believe it makes good business sense to release content that's cheap to produce to engender better customer relations. That makes sense. They benefit a bit from the relative cost of producing that content. 

 

It's just silly to think of them as doing this out of their inherent goodness as people or whatever, rather than as saavy businesspeople. 

[In Exile]

This. I read all this nonsense but but CDPR using slaves they play practically nothing. This was sarcasm because it's enough stupid people accept it as real.

Yes they pay less because living cost is much less if statistics are correct almost twice less. I am from Lithuania all of ass complaining we live bad earn nothing yes there is a lot of true but it's not so horrible as it painted to look. Yes we look at UK an Scandinavian country's and earn a lot and bring it home bring it home because life is much cheaper. But if you live in what country I would lie if say same, but only little better.

 

Absolutely no one says this. But ignorance leads people to fail to appreciate just how radical it is to be doing cost in a jurisdiction where everything is halved relative to your competitors. This isn't about the people. It's about the effect on the company's bottom line.

 

There's a reason why CDPR's base development cost was ~32 million USD, despite the AAA production values. 

[Kabraxal]

What could CDPR learn from Bioware?

Character interaction, actual role diversification, story (dont think any witcher game has been as good as me, kotor, je, bg, or da) and customisation in general.

TW series has been average to good, but it has never come close to Bioware's best.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Thank you for doing Jaron's homework.

It is not my responsibility to convince you of things that are a matter of common knowledge. Your inability to come to terms with this reality has no affect on its validity. If you want to wallow in ignorance, you are certainly free to. To blame others for your lack of understanding is ludicrous, and will lead even more people to struggle with taking you seriously.

[Guitar-Hero]

Theres no doubt TW3 is better than any singular game that bioware has ever put out, but CDPR is a business same as EA and bioware so ofcourse they care about making money, they do have better dlc policies but then again they haven't got a partnership with EA. That said i think DA should stay DA and same goes for TW so people who enjoy the different games can enjoy them on those merits.  

[correctamundo]

As a matter of fact it's all doubt.

[Lawrence0294]

Very good interview and great attitude from Mr. Gaider !

 

Shame the thread is already setting itself on fire =p

[Balek-Vriege]

None of this TW3 vs DAI debate matters anymore...

 

Fallout 4 will top both and probably steal GOTY from TW3

[Kabraxal]

Theres no doubt TW3 is better than any singular game that bioware has ever put out, but CDPR is a business same as EA and bioware so ofcourse they care about making money, they do have better dlc policies but then again they haven't got a partnership with EA. That said i think DA should stay DA and same goes for TW so people who enjoy the different games can enjoy them on those merits.

Plenty of doubt here...

[RepHope]

What could CDPR learn from Bioware?

How to handle using a custom character protagonist. So far they've had the benefit of Geralt, a set character with his own history, friendships, loves, rivalries, etc. We get a little leeway in how we play him, but Geralt remains Geralt at his core. Since it seems they're trying out avatars with Cyberpunk 2077, taking a look at how different companies have used them, if only to avoid mistakes others have made, is a sound strategy.

 

Another would be to look at how Bioware handles importing choices. Now I actually don't mind how CDPR usually handles it. For those of you not in the know they basically ignore or handwave away previous choices that conflict with their story. If they want to try to actually make choices matter from game to game, Bioware is the only other AAA RPG developer that has really tried to do that.

[RepHope]

Character interaction, actual role diversification, story (dont think any witcher game has been as good as me, kotor, je, bg, or da) and customisation in general.

TW series has been average to good, but it has never come close to Bioware's best.

And what exactly IS "Bioware's best"? I disagree, W2 and W3 both have earned their place among the greats. W2 has one of the best stories I have ever seen, and an amazing antagonist in Letho, who beats the hell out of most antagonists Bioware has put out in the last couple of years. The Bloody Baron and Ladies of the Wood questline in W3 is my favorite questline in a video game bar none. CDPR has their faults but they've earned top ranking with Bioware and Bethesda.

[rapscallioness]

Omg. They did hear. I didn't think they heard. You know, sometimes it can feel like you're talking to a brick wall out here. Nothing is being absorbed. Like they just don't "hear you", or understand what you're saying.

 

To hear David talk about having things more fleshed out; areas and side quests more tightly involved with the main story was very welcome.

 

I really liked DAI. I still do. I think they did alot of things right, but some refinement of it all is necessary.

 

Now, what they do with that feedback is up to them, obviously. But sometimes it's a relief just knowing you've been heard.

 

Did he say what game he was working on next? Is it swtor? Or a new, new ip? I hope it's something that interests me.

[rapscallioness]

I didn't read the rest of the thread at first, but now I see it's already getting crappy in here. Ack.

 

I should go.

 

edit

[Cmpunker13]

They are subsidized, which means they can do things like free dlc and lead people to believe its due to their limitless generosity. CDPR sings the tune they know the people want to hear, but in reality they are no different from Bioware. These are also the same people who were for DRM until it blew up in their face, now they act as if they've been against it all along. Don't be a sheeple.

 

I can't understand the DRM reference (I played TW2 for the first time as a friend of mine passed it to me, and I plan to pay him back by doing the same with my TW3), however I don't think that fanboys are a relevant issue. Bioware made great games? Indeed. CDPR made great games? That's true too. That's all that matters from a gameplay perspective, imo.

 

From a consumer perspective, I was able to preorder TW3 at 40+ eur, I buy from gog and give games to my friends who play for free. CDPR are sharks and they do what they do only for their own economic benefit? I never doubt it. Do I care?

[Kabraxal]

And what exactly IS "Bioware's best"? I disagree, W2 and W3 both have earned their place among the greats. W2 has one of the best stories I have ever seen, and an amazing antagonist in Letho, who beats the hell out of most antagonists Bioware has put out in the last couple of years. The Bloody Baron and Ladies of the Wood questline in W3 is my favorite questline in a video game bar none. CDPR has their faults but they've earned top ranking with Bioware and Bethesda.

The suicide mission in ME2, Bdts, all of origins, kotor, iron bull's choice, solas as a whole... I can list many more.

And i find TW2 highly overrated. The characters were flat, the choices weren't that impressive to me, too many scenes where Geralt stands and watches something happen instead of acting, and a general self righteousness about how people really suck... Glad TW3 improved on that to become an actual good, if not overly remarkable, game.

[FKA_Servo]

None of this TW3 vs DAI debate matters anymore...

 

Fallout 4 will top both and probably steal GOTY from TW3

 

 

Bioware could learn from the areas in which TW3 excelled and vice versa.

 

One impression that I've gotten - CDPR plays gamers like a piano. They know what to say, when to say it, and how to say it. If Bioware and EA talked to their fans like that, the hate would be a lot less palpable.

[Brockololly]

I think both are solid games, its just that as I've been going through The Witcher, I'm constantly thinking back to DAI and going, "Man, why couldn't DAI have done this?" Things like the day/night cycle, weather, zones with actual story in the side quests, actual zoomed in cutscenes for dialogue... So much of what The Witcher does with storytelling in its open world structure is almost exactly what I expected and would want out of another DA game and really makes it much more difficult for me to want to go back and replay DAI.

Obviously DA has different considerations to take into account, like the party, but if you're comparing open world storytelling in "AAA" budget RPGs, I think CDPR achieved their goals much more than BioWare.

[RepHope]

The suicide mission in ME2, Bdts, all of origins, kotor, iron bull's choice, solas as a whole... I can list many more.

And i find TW2 highly overrated. The characters were flat, the choices weren't that impressive to me, too many scenes where Geralt stands and watches something happen instead of acting, and a general self righteousness about how people really suck... Glad TW3 improved on that to become an actual good, if not overly remarkable, game.

Ha, I was expecting you to say ME2, the Suicide Mission is definitely one I agree with, CDPR hasn't made anything quite like it. They love that mission as much as we do though, they talked a lot on the forums about how they wish to make something similar. Hopefully they can do something similar in Cyberpunk since that's going to be their sci-fi franchise. I hope Bioware does something like the Suicide Mission again as well.

 

Origins is also one I could potentially agree with, although I consider W3 to be equally enjoyable. Disagree with your assessment of W2, but opinions and all that. What does come as a surprise is stuff like Iron Bull and Solas. I found Iron Bull's choice to be a bit of a letdown honestly. 5 Venatori slaughter all of the Chargers, and we can't just run down the hill and kill them? Bit of a joke honestly, that choice wasn't really well-presented or executed at all.

 

Now Solas is a bit more interesting since he and Avallac'h are pretty similar characters. Elves who know more than they're letting on and obviously have their own agenda that we still haven't pierced together. Solas obviously has a future role in the series, and I suspect that Avallac'h will have a similar role, especially since one of W3's endings sets up Ciri to take over Geralt's role.

[MrMrPendragon]

 

I suppose all of Poland and the former member states of the Warsaw Pact all colluded to make a friggen video game.

 

 

This made me laugh for some reason.

 

Really, the only thing I would like Bioware to take anything from the Witcher series is Witcher's presentation of war, social issues, and political issues. Dragon Age's universe and its society is a little too...clean, compared to Witcher.

[SharpWalkers]

He also did an entire panel. Don't know if it's already been posted somewhere else, but here it is: http://www.gamereact...3151c82ebe0e5ea