76 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I think both are solid games, its just that as I've been going through The Witcher, I'm constantly thinking back to DAI and going, "Man, why couldn't DAI have done this?" Things like the day/night cycle, weather, zones with actual story in the side quests, actual zoomed in cutscenes for dialogue... So much of what The Witcher does with storytelling in its open world structure is almost exactly what I expected and would want out of another DA game and really makes it much more difficult for me to want to go back and replay DAI.

Obviously DA has different considerations to take into account, like the party, but if you're comparing open world storytelling in "AAA" budget RPGs, I think CDPR achieved their goals much more than BioWare.

 

Bioware misallocated their resources, and part of it is that companion investment. They really need to cut down on companions, because there are huge diminishing returns to that content.  

 

Day/night cycles are abominable - just the worst thing possible for versimultitude. I will never understand why people like it. 

[blahblah]

Having only recently played my first witcher walkthrough I can say the difference between DAI and TW3 is huge in terms of zones and questing..

 

The comparison I can make is that DAI feels like its designed to be DAI:Online without other players.  While TW3 is a true SP RPG.. Its disappointing that ive done numerous DAO/DA2 playthroughs while I dont think im ever going to do a 2nd DAI playthrough ever. The quests and zones are bland.

 

DAI has given me an unsavory taste for the future of the series.

[Panda]

Bioware misallocated their resources, and part of it is that companion investment. They really need to cut down on companions, because there are huge diminishing returns to that content.  

 

Day/night cycles are abominable - just the worst thing possible for versimultitude. I will never understand why people like it. 

 

Cut down companions? Whelp, there goes my reason to play the game. I much rather see them cut down open-worldness and return system similar to DAO. Smaller area's that are actually full of things.

[Linkenski]

Now I am not stating that CDPR are led by a charging Juraj Jánošík gleaming in porcelain armor upon his trusty and faithful Malopolski but I will say this - they released a game that was actually playable. How many dev's these days charge for reskins and additional content for a game that DOES NOT WORK?

I do not care where the dev's are based out of, I do not care how much $$$ they make, or in what currency they spend it. I am a gamer and I want a product that works as advertised. How is giving me a product that actually is PLAYABLE patronizing? Explain that one to me, sir.


edit - DA:I also had a wonderful release and I also praise Bioware.

DAI and Witcher 3 both suffer from significant technical issues on PS4. I don't think CDPR really excelled in that department.

[Brockololly]

Bioware misallocated their resources, and part of it is that companion investment. They really need to cut down on companions, because there are huge diminishing returns to that content.  
 
Day/night cycles are abominable - just the worst thing possible for versimultitude. I will never understand why people like it.

I would be ok with having fewer companions but having each companion more fleshed out and with more variability. Its a thing in most BioWare games where I'll usually get my core group of companions and then basically roll with them for most of the game, with most of the companions you pick up later on not getting much play.

Then again, that's potentially more risky too since fewer companions means you're potentially stuck with a companion that you dislike and thus you're maybe less keen on completing the game if they're forced on you and you're left with no alternative, especially if you need that given companion for gameplay reasons, given the party structure.


I think day/night cycles are far superior to something like the static MMO diorama levels of DAI where time stands still and yet you're putting significant time into exploring. Static time and static weather works for a more linear, scripted game or something more focused like Origins, but for a semi-open world game, the lack of dynamic systems like a day/night cycle to me are immersion breaking and kill a game's atmosphere. The implementation can be monkeyed with but a huge part of my issue with the environments of DAI is how lifeless and static they feel and the lack of day/night cycles and weather is a big part of that. Some of my favorite moments in the Witcher so far have been just roaming around and hitting a nice vista right as the sun is coming up or going down- makes you feel like you're just one part of a much bigger world.
 

Having only recently played my first witcher walkthrough I can say the difference between DAI and TW3 is huge in terms of zones and questing..

The comparison I can make is that DAI feels like its designed to be DAI:Online without other players. While TW3 is a true SP RPG.. Its disappointing that ive done numerous DAO/DA2 playthroughs while I dont think im ever going to do a 2nd DAI playthrough ever. The quests and zones are bland.

DAI has given me an unsavory taste for the future of the series.

Especially after having played TW3, you hit it right on the head- the zones in DAI just feel like big empty MMO levels. They feel like distinct levels of a video game whereas zones like Skellige or Velen or Novigrad in TW3 feel designed much more like actual chunks of a larger, more plausible and believable world.

I mean, it still completely dumbfounds me how DAI basically has zero towns or cities to explore. I'm guessing it was likely a big technical roadblock but compare Novigrad in TW3 to Val Royeaux in DAI. Both are basically supposed to be some of the biggest cities in their respective fantasy worlds and yet Val Royeaux is limited to a dinky, desolate market square. Come on, man.

[In Exile]

Cut down companions? Whelp, there goes my reason to play the game. I much rather see them cut down open-worldness and return system similar to DAO. Smaller area's that are actually full of things.

The areas weren't really full of things, though. What Bioware did in DA:O is - instead of creating custom areas for the main quest with concentrated content - spread out the main quest content between side quests. This is exactly what TW3 did. All of the Bloody Baron questline is MQ, with some major sidequests tied into them (cf. Orzammar and the provings, which is a Main Quest™). 

 

The reality is that companions are expensive. Bioware either needs to invest more $$ into the game or cut companions to get the same level of quality as TW3. They probably divided the MQ out from the sidequests and open world to respond to criticism from (e.g.) ME SP that there's too much talking and not enough exploring/killing/whatever (see e.g. Skyrim as a contrast to this one). 

[c0bra951]

The definition of "Freudian slip":

 

https://www.youtube....thXARQ#t=11m15s

 

[Panda]

The areas weren't really full of things, though. What Bioware did in DA:O is - instead of creating custom areas for the main quest with concentrated content - spread out the main quest content between side quests. This is exactly what TW3 did. All of the Bloody Baron questline is MQ, with some major sidequests tied into them (cf. Orzammar and the provings, which is a Main Quest™). 

 

The reality is that companions are expensive. Bioware either needs to invest more $$ into the game or cut companions to get the same level of quality as TW3. They probably divided the MQ out from the sidequests and open world to respond to criticism from (e.g.) ME SP that there's too much talking and not enough exploring/killing/whatever (see e.g. Skyrim as a contrast to this one). 

 

Same level quality as TW3, umm sorry, but no thanks. I don't have any intrest in Witcher nor Bioware cutting down companion content, since that's reason to play and replay their games.

[Linkenski]

I don't think Bioware should stop doing companions, but Mass Effect 2 and DA:I is just too bloated and they end up feeling very one-note-ish and not well-enough developed.

[Apollexander]

 

 

One impression that I've gotten - CDPR plays gamers like a piano. They know what to say, when to say it, and how to say it. If Bioware and EA talked to their fans like that, the hate would be a lot less palpable.

If Bioware and EA said there would be no downgrade but then released a game with downgraded graphic, if Bioware and EA said the DLCs would be free but then announced 'expansions' even before the launch of the game, and if Bioware and EA criticized the games from other companies but then released a game with such messy control, full of bugs and 7GB patch, I could not imagine how furious the haters would be.

[Dutch's Ghost]

He forgot about Krem name, blaspheme! 

 

She's a forgettable character.

[SharpWalkers]

If Bioware and EA said there would be no downgrade but then released a game with downgraded graphic,

People did critisize that.

if Bioware and EA said the DLCs would be free but then announced 'expansions' even before the launch of the game,

They never said big expansion DLC's would be free. They said small packs of armors and weapons would be free (*ahem* Spoils of the Avvar, Spoils of the Qunari).

then released a game with such messy control, full of bugs,

Ehm...

and 7GB patch,

A number of multi GB patches, some of which 4GB, are fine, however.

[Super Drone]

If Bioware and EA said there would be no downgrade but then released a game with downgraded graphic, if Bioware and EA said the DLCs would be free but then announced 'expansions' even before the launch of the game, and if Bioware and EA criticized the games from other companies but then released a game with such messy control, full of bugs and 7GB patch, I could not imagine how furious the haters would be.

 

Are you.... saying CDPR can get away with things  Bioware can't? or....  I dunno what you're trying to say....

[CronoDragoon]

The areas weren't really full of things, though. What Bioware did in DA:O is - instead of creating custom areas for the main quest with concentrated content - spread out the main quest content between side quests. This is exactly what TW3 did. All of the Bloody Baron questline is MQ, with some major sidequests tied into them (cf. Orzammar and the provings, which is a Main Quest™). 

 

The reality is that companions are expensive. Bioware either needs to invest more $$ into the game or cut companions to get the same level of quality as TW3. They probably divided the MQ out from the sidequests and open world to respond to criticism from (e.g.) ME SP that there's too much talking and not enough exploring/killing/whatever (see e.g. Skyrim as a contrast to this one). 

 

The good news is that the next DA game is unlikely to have advisors. Well, I suppose they could have something equivalent, but it isn't certain. So automatically there's about 3 companions worth of resources you can allocate somewhere else. Myself, I'd go further and cut 3 more companions.

[In Exile]

The good news is that the next DA game is unlikely to have advisors. Well, I suppose they could have something equivalent, but it isn't certain. So automatically there's about 3 companions worth of resources you can allocate somewhere else. Myself, I'd go further and cut 3 more companions.

I agree. I think that content needs to be allocated to side quests. And that they generally need more content investment (so more $$) to create better side quests. The game won a lot of accolades, so they can justify one final push with it.

[Kabraxal]

Considering the companions and characters are what Bioware do better than everyone... The call to cut resources from that and to side quests is extremely questionable.

[Nixou]

As a side note, CD Projekt RED received substantial financial aid from the state and Europe.

 

 

 

 

Too bad it's not widely known, I'd love to see conspiracy nuts ranting about stuffed-unicorn sex being part of Brussels' technocrats evil plan to take over the world.

 

***

 

 

I much rather see them cut down open-worldness and return system similar to DAO. Smaller area's that are actually full of things.

 

 

 

I've never liked that type of level design, where the devs cram dozens of side quests and plot evens in areas the size of grandma's backyard.

[In Exile]

Considering the companions and characters are what Bioware do better than everyone... The call to cut resources from that and to side quests is extremely questionable.

There are diminishing returns here. I like companion content a lot. But I also like having side quests, and after a point the companions become totally disconnected from the main plot. I prefer fewer companions but with plot connections. See e.g. Solas and Cassandra (and even Varric, though I think Bioware fumbled him).

[Maliken]

Bioware misallocated their resources, and part of it is that companion investment. They really need to cut down on companions, because there are huge diminishing returns to that content.  

 

Day/night cycles are abominable - just the worst thing possible for versimultitude. I will never understand why people like it. 

 

 

You prefer a static world over this?

[FKA_Servo]

 

You prefer a static world over this?

 

My preference is for open world games generally, and I like day/night cycles, but I think they both work just fine. I think a number of large, varied zones, each with its own unique character, is just as good. Well executed, as in DAI, the result is lovely.

 

This is not one of DAI's shortcomings - it comes down to preference.

[Dutch's Ghost]

My preference is for open world games generally, and I like day/night cycles, but I think they both work just fine. I think a number of large, varied zones, each with its own unique character, is just as good. Well executed, as in DAI, the result is lovely.

 

This is not one of DAI's shortcomings - it comes down to preference.

 

I beg to differ.

[Viper371]

Lol, CDPR is subsidised by the Polish government because it puts them on the map.

Bioware Montreal is subsidized by the Quebec Government.  All the major studios in Canada are subsidized by their provinces (that means Bioware Edmonton too).
EA uses tax shelters to avoid paying all income taxes (your payment goes to a Swiss subsidiary) to local governments.

CDPR likely pays more corporate income tax than EA, in % of their profit.

Talent is possibly harder to attract in Poland than in the US/Canada.  Lots of British, French, German video game developpers probably dream of joining a big studio in the US, like EA.  Not so much dream of a mid-sized company in Poland.
EA can tap the resources of all its branches to produce a game.  The engine is developped by one company.  Marketing is a division common to all EA studios.  Tech support is not handled by the division (Bioware) but by corporate EA (if you call that tech support).

 

All in all, that even things out.

[Majestic Jazz]

Bioware Montreal is subsidized by the Quebec Government. All the major studios in Canada are subsidized by their provinces (that means Bioware Edmonton too).
EA uses tax shelters to avoid paying all income taxes (your payment goes to a Swiss subsidiary) to local governments.
CDPR likely pays more corporate income tax than EA, in % of their profit.
Talent is possibly harder to attract in Poland than in the US/Canada. Lots of British, French, German video game developpers probably dream of joining a big studio in the US, like EA. Not so much dream of a mid-sized company in Poland.
EA can tap the resources of all its branches to produce a game. The engine is developped by one company. Marketing is a division common to all EA studios. Tech support is not handled by the division (Bioware) but by corporate EA (if you call that tech support).

All in all, that even things out.

Exactly!

[panamakira]

http://www.gamereact...grtv/?id=229594

 

He talks about the process of writing within Bioware, even admits he's kind of jealous at some of the things CDPR did, which is IMO a very humble and good attitude to have, considering a LOT of people have been saying "hey, Bioware, look at what THESE guys are doing" ever since DA:I came out.

 

Unfortunately I think he picked a poor example on the subject of bringing back old characters in their sequels because he started talking about bringing back Varric in DA:I and that "if there's nowhere to take the character, we wouldn't have them in it", which is kind of ironic IMO.

Ugh. I'm so over Varric though. I don't need a third game with him in it.

[Lebanese Dude]

At some point you gotta lay down the pitchforks and realize that the more games like DA and TW there are, the more their success inspires more RPGs to be made, leading to more RPG that are out there, and ultimately more fun to be had playing them all.

The games aren't mutually exclusive.